[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'M')eans testing for SS and Medicare is a logical first approach.

[Cog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', 'M')eans testing for SS and Medicare is a logical first approach.

[Timo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bill Hicks', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I')'m sitting here wondering if in the long run it wouldn't be better to have Obama and the Republicans crash the financial system and put the nation and society in a position of being able to start fresh?

[Oakley]

What I would like to see is no increase in the debt limit, no increases in taxes, fines, or fees, but elimination of special privilege from the tax code with reduction in the rates on the average man to offset the higher collections associated with elimination of these privileges. This would make the federal government live within its means.

I would follow Ron Paul's advice to close all military bases on foreign soil, end all the wars, and end all foreign aid. I would means test Social Security and Medicare, and eliminate a host of federal departments, most of which are unconstitutional and and destructive of freedom and economic activity.

As far as the existing bonded debt, most of it came into existence by banks creating out of thin air checking account balances to loan to the federal government so the banks could collect interest from us. Default on any of it held by the Federal Reserve Bank or any of the big banks.

Because the default on the debt would likely collapse the banks, I would first coin all the gold and silver held by the government and distribute it pro-rata to the population so that we would have real money to use when the debt based, bank created money becomes worthless.

I would require banks to hold 100% reserves in gold and silver against their deposit liabilities, preventing them from creating credit out of thin air.

I would assess a penalty on all current and past elected Congressmen and Presidents equal to the increase in their personal wealth during their terms in office, and eliminate any retirement benefit, instead giving them the same means tested Social Security and Medicare the rest of us are stuck with.

I would turn over Bush and Obama to the World Court to be prosecuted for war crimes; many others are responsible too, but this would be more symbolic than seeking justice since there are thousands more truly responsible for the crimes our government has committed in our names, making true justice difficult to achieve.

I would legalize all drugs and end this war on the US public.

[Pops]

While we're defaulting on the debt, lets understand who holds it:

Hong Kong: $121.9 billion (0.9 percent)
Caribbean banking centers: $148.3 (1 percent)
Taiwan: $153.4 billion (1.1 percent)
Brazil: $211.4 billion (1.5 percent)
Oil exporting countries: $229.8 billion (1.6 percent)
Mutual funds: $300.5 billion (2 percent)
Commercial banks: $301.8 billion (2.1 percent)
State, local and federal retirement funds: $320.9 billion (2.2 percent)
Money market mutual funds: $337.7 billion (2.4 percent)
United Kingdom: $346.5 billion (2.4 percent)
Private pension funds: $504.7 billion (3.5 percent)
State and local governments: $506.1 billion (3.5 percent)
Japan: $912.4 billion (6.4 percent)
U.S. households: $959.4 billion (6.6 percent)
China: $1.16 trillion (8 percent)
The U.S. Treasury: $1.63 trillion (11.3 percent)
Social Security trust fund: $2.67 trillion (19 percent)

The blue is us, we owe ourselves 2/3 of the debt or $9.8T of the $14T - or should I say we've borrowed that much from our future earnings.

http://www.businessinsider.com/who-owns-us-debt-2011-7

[Oakley]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'W')hile we're defaulting on the debt, lets understand who holds it.

The blue is us, we owe ourselves 2/3 of the debt or $9.8T of the $14T - or should I say we've borrowed that much from our future earnings.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oakley', 'T')he deal is that it can't possibly be paid,

[Mesuge]

100% debt?
Basically, every developed nation is in the red in multiples of that number. You have to add corporate, private, muni debt, the black hole of aging infrustructure, plus the world of derivatives of many kinds and that's just the start.

And what is a default? Who is the judge? It could be named - pig lipsticked in many ways, the agony could go on for years.

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', '[')b]100% debt?
Basically, every developed nation is in the red in multiples of that number. You have to add corporate, private, muni debt, the black hole of aging infrustructure, plus the world of derivatives of many kinds and that's just the start.

[Plantagenet]

The US can't afford to pay down the debt right now....the budget is so out of whack that about 40 cents of every dollar the government spends is borrowed. Congress is going to have to raise the debt ceiling just so we can borrow more money to pay the interest on the money we've already borrowed.

The federal debt has grown from 10 to 14 trillion just since Obama took office. It will grow by something like 1.4-1.6 trillion this year alone, depending on how much the Republicans can cut from Obama's spending in spite of his non-stop squealing.

[vision-master]

No debt, no spending, no money.

[Pops]

[Mesuge]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Mesuge', '[')b]100% debt?
Basically, every developed nation is in the red in multiples of that number. You have to add corporate, private, muni debt, the black hole of aging infrustructure, plus the world of derivatives of many kinds and that's just the start.

[Plantagenet]

1. A tax cut isn't spending.

2. Some tax cuts stimulate the economy, resulting in more jobs and more tax revenue then would have been generated without the tax cuts.

3. Some tax increases damage the economy, resulting in fewer jobs and less tax revenue then would've been generated without the tax increases.

Any government policy has to be intelligently designed to work properly. Obama's policies just aren't working so far.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '2'). Some tax cuts stimulate the economy, resulting in more jobs and more tax revenue then would have been generated without the tax cuts.

[Daniel_Plainview]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'O')bama's policies just aren't working so far.

[Outcast_Searcher]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '[')img]http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/jamesfallows/24editorial_graph2-popup.gif[/img]

[vision-master]

Outcast_Searcher, still driving taht ol red-neck 4x4 truck?

[Livewire713]

Outcast_Searcher - $this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ay to go pops. Publish figures that only a completely biased and economically illiterate hard line leftist would believe.

[patience]

Based on historical precedents, here's my bold prediction, FWIW.

-Punt for now, as someone else said, to kick the can as best and as far as they are able.
-Grab all available monies as required to keep the game going.
-Since they took SS funds long ago and lately govt. pensions, the next likely options are private pension funds.
-Somewhere around the time the dollar goes in the crapper, PM confiscation will come around, "in the national interest".
-More big corps will be "bailed out" = nationalized, in a more flagrant manner, to keep the banana republic funded.
-More money will be "printed", digitally of course, until we reach something like the status of 2004 Argentina, or Zimbabwe.
-If we are fortunate, the US will settle out into something vaguely resembling present day Mexico, or Venezuela. Without the oil resources, of course.