[Fishman]

"Next the Rethugs will gut SS and medicare programs."
Both entitlement programs not for the poor but the middle class. Please vision, how do you propose to pay for these Ponzi schemes? We spend 40% more than we are bringing in now, our debt, and just the payment on our debt is eating up everything. Do you propose we increase taxes 50 - 70 % across the board? Just Medicare with the demographic aging of the population is unsustainable in ANY financial senario. Unicorns will not save us.
Do you really think things like Medicare and SS will survive unscathed with peak oil? This goes back to my original post on this thread. The left here suddenly seems absolutely clueless about the changes from peak oil they've been predicting.

[vision-master]

See, the rethugs would like SS to be cut. They want all entitlement programs cut to the bone. I'm not worried as I'm over 55. BUT, the young ppl will be SCREWED!

[Vogelzang]

The Democrats will kill you long before most of you get any SS or medicare.

[vision-master]

That's why the Rethugs want to up the age for SS to 70.

I can tell you right now, the way things are going in this World, most ppl won't make it past their early 60's.

Boehner: Raise Social Security Retirement Age to 70

[Fishman]

Excellent response award of the month!!! "See, the rethugs would like SS to be cut." Absolutely no response on how to maintain the status quo. Wrong, I want unlimited resources and unicorns also, I just know they don't exist.
Mos, back to your original post here. More of the right wingers are recognizing the problems of peak oil. They will act on this reality, not just scratch their navel.
Vog, not likely in the US. The second amendment has protected us from the left for over 200 years.

[Loki]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'S')ocialism
"Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved. "

None of the above examples in this thread even come close to the definition of socialism.
SOCIALISM will not prevent peak oil, it is not sustainable (nor other systems probably), it will not cause Gia to sigh, the planet to cool, or the waters to part. Sorry American Dream.

Vaccinations/autism have absolutely nothing to do with this thread. If we are going to deviate that far from Mos's initial post, can we discuss also how much garlic one plans to plant this year?
PS correlation does not equal causation

[rangerone314]

Its largely fat Southerners who smoke in the Red States (the so-called "Diabetes Belt" recently in the news) that are responsible for driving up the cost of health care.

Maybe if the Republicans would just cut off all the health care and medicare and medicaide and they'll all die off. Aren't the Republicans worried about their "base" dying off? (but then they've never been long term thinkers like Ken Lay or Jack Abramoff) They hate socialism but benefit from the taxes flowing from blue places like New England to them.

Maybe the Republicans feel that when they kill off their base (the "useful idiots" I believe the term is) they can just hire some more Madison Avenue marketing firms to brainwash another group to vote against their own interests.

[pedalling_faster]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'F')or all you J6P's that support the Rethug party....... Yer gonna get what you asked for. Next the Rethugs will gut SS and medicare programs.

[mos6507]

Great, this thread is going to be nothing about vaccines causing autism. How useful.

In other news,

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'C')onservative Republicans are three times as likely as liberal Democrats to think the media is exaggerating the severity of global warming, while Democrats are roughly twice as likely as Republicans to be concerned about climate change and to think it is already impacting the planet.

[Fishman]

Wow Mos we agree on one line. Vaccinations/autism not part of this thread, BUT since it came up. Worked overseas, have seen polio, pertussis, know enough about the rest to know that my kids will get amost everything I can get in them vaccination wise (HPV vaccine is worthless). N of one person means absolutely nothing. Its like throwing craps, with heavily weighted dice toward vaccinations benefit.
Ranger, nope, tort lawyers, technology, and human nature wanting more drive up healthcare.
Back to the garlic question, wow Loki, that's impressive. Not the socialism argument however, they have to compete with other non socialistic systems, would they function otherwise? Not knocking all government systems, those poor examples of socialism earlier are actually fairly good examples of government working. There are financial limits which we have clearly overwhelmed. How do we cut back with peak oil in our face? Posts like "See, the rethugs would like SS to be cut" indicate how clueless the left faces peak oil.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')There are financial limits which we have clearly overwhelmed. How do we cut back with peak oil in our face? Posts like "See, the rethugs would like SS to be cut" indicate how clueless the left faces peak oil.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', 'H')ow do we cut back with peak oil in our face? Posts like "See, the rethugs would like SS to be cut" indicate how clueless the left faces peak oil.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '
')
The Democratic approach is .....pricing externalities into the things we buy.

That's why it's the lesser of two evils.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')You mean like when Obama and the Nancy Pelosi Congress failed to pass any "cap and trade" bill to limit CO2 but did pass an extension of the Bush tax cuts for the rich?

[TreeFarmer]

In general I am a "libertarian" but I hate to say that because when I do people seem to act like they've been given a power directly from God to tell me exactly what all of my positions on the issues MUST BE. This applies to people from both ends, and the middle, of the political spectrum.

If I were to define myself I would say that I am a moderate Libertarian. I will acknowledge something that most Libertarians and Republicans won't, a little socialism is good. For example, I like having public roads. I don't want to have to stop every few miles and pay some individual or company for the priviledge of driving on their road, I'd rather pay a gasoline tax and then drive where I want to.

The concern for me is that both political parties are control freaks, they just differ on what they want to (over) control. For example, the Republicans want social control while the Democrats want economic control over our lives. <A quick caveat here, this is confounded in with the fact that both parties having been bought off by Wall Street> I would like to see a symmetrical capitalist system in which those that stand to gain from good decisions are the same ones that stand to lose from bad decisions.

What I would like to see is a debate on what does government HAVE to do, not what various special interest groups want it to do. I would also like to see a balanced budget and then let's argue over how to spend it.

With respect to peak oil, I definitely believe in peak oil. I also very much understand how exponential growth works for consumption and thus you can't drill your way out of the problem. I also do not believe in the money/resource fairy. That is, in a constrained environment I don't believe that paying extra taxes or ceeding more control to the government will miracously make adequate resources appear for everyone. Simply, we appear to be heading for a time of shortages and self-reliance, in conjunction with your neighbors, is going to be the safest way to plan and proceed.

That's enough for now;

TF

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TreeFarmer', '.').. a little socialism is good. For example, I like having public roads.

TF

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Public roads are not socialism.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Public roads are not socialism.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '
')Public roads are not socialism.

[Loki]

Whoops, double post.