[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'd')eranged.......

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Oneaboveall', 'P')oint two: As far as being paranoid, there has already been acts of violence that have been connected to some of the over-the-top rhetoric that has become part of the national debate. A few months back, some guy in Oakland (CA) wound up in a shoot out with police on his way to attack the Tides Foundation. The Tides Foundation is a favorite target of Beck. It seems there are a lot of people who are willing to be take up arms if they are just given a target to shoot at. I listen to Black Flag and The Dead Kennedys, but I haven't tried to kill Terry Dolan or Phyllis Schlafly because Jello Biafra criticized them in a song.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('careinke', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'P')ublic workers are actually paid less then their equally educated counterparts in the private sector.

[Oneaboveall]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'D')ead Kennedy's... they anything like the Dead Prez?

[Newfie]

I have a totally different take on this subject from anyone here. It's an idea I have been working on for a bit and am scheduled to give a lecture on. It is sort of a synthysis of various ideas. I'm not 100% sold on it but let me run it out.

I think that this has something to do with our collective unconscious. Not quite as woo woo as it sounds.

There is a long history of people, tribes if you like, having ceremonies where there is a great deal of giving. The general term for this is "Potlatch" after practices by some tribes in the Pacific NW. The general idea is that as cultures develop they create a "big man." When the group has an excess of food they will have a big feast and also invite some competing tribe and give them a lot of food. Then the invited tribal big man, and thus the group, is obligated to return the gifts and then some. If they can't they are 'humiliated.' Apparently this tends to go on in times of relative abundance as a substitute for war, it is a more peaceful way of achieving moral victory over some rival. Apparently when the PNW Indians populations were greatly decreased by disease they had so much excess food and other wealth that they could not give it away, they would burn it. Others have explained this in terms of 'conspicuous consumption,' "I'm better than you because I can waste more than you." Thus it kind of comes to a sexual display, like a peacock's tail. The gifting group benefits because they are all part of the same group, the Big Man is the symbol of the groups collective position. Thus the bigger and more wasteful the Big Man the greater the stature of the individuals in the group. The main points here is that this is, or at least starts as a voluntary action, and it has arisen in various groups in the world.

In larger societies we have things like Kings. It is the rare Brit who is not proud of their royal family. True, there are times when revolution occurs, but I'm talking about in times of relative prosperity as we are in the USA, indeed the entire Western culture, at the moment.

One may even think of the Marshall Plan as a Potlatch on a grand scale. We not only 'saved' Europe but we also had to rebuild them, and Japan, and thus we asserted our superior way.

In recent economic theory there is the idea that we need to 'make work.' Thus we have created the consumer culture. Like a fire consumes its fuel we pour our wealth (money spent in labor) into the fire of consumer spending. Instead of giving our food to others we buy useless junk. Who of us thinks that things are worth more than our free time? How many practice that thought? I believe that there is a American pride in having so much stuff, it gives us individual status "He who dies with the most toys wins." But also we elevate some selected individuals to extreme levels of wealth. These are our Big Men.

Forbs Worlds Riches Men
1 Caros Slim Helu - Mexico
2 Bill Gates - USA
3 Warren Buffett - USA
4. Mukesh Ambani - India
5. Lakshmi Mittal - India

If you are brutally honest with yourself don't you get a wee pang of "WTF?" by this list? A smidgen of jealousy? If not you (because WE are all special ) then what about J6P? Check it out with your friends and co-workers. Read this list and see what their reactions are. I'm betting you will find some wounded national pride in hearing non-USA'ers on the list.

Thus we get stature from conspicuous consumption a la consumerism and through having the biggest Big Men. We bad, we bad, uh huh, uh huh!!!

My theory is that this is something that occurs only in times of relative abundance such as we have experienced for quite a while. Pax Americana.

I believe that none of this is on the surface of our consciousness but is buried in our group think/act. It is something that goes on at a genetic level, like chickens being born afraid of a raptor.

[mos6507]

I predict.... I predict a link to anthropik is coming.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', '
')I wasn't aware that an ideological viewpoint was required to make plants grow. I thought soil, sunlight, water & nutrients was sufficient.

[rangerone314]

That which is a threat is worthless for my purposes.

And No.

Unlike the true psychopaths who make the evening news, when I choose to act with decisiveness, it will be at a time when there is no longer any evening news to watch.

[Kristen]

The easy answer....

We've been tricked into believing moving up the social ladder is easily obtainable and it's worshiped in our society, albeit desirable.

=

A obsessive passion to be rich.

[Roy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'T')he easy answer....

We've been tricked into believing moving up the social ladder is easily obtainable and it's worshiped in our society, albeit desirable.

=

A obsessive passion to be rich.

[Shar_Lamagne]

Roy, that must be true, as others have said the same thing. That's really sick. It's like brainwashing your own population into a form of mental illness to keep them from rising up against you.
Surely at some point they have to wake up to the real situation, wouldn't you think?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'I')n comparison to every other developed nation in the western world, our general population are now little more than peasants. But of course, our media does it's best not to allow the peasantry to see that.

Instead they are shown US TV families exhibiting developed world lifestyles, and told that if they would just work harder this could be theirs, that EVERYONE ELSE has it, and there must be something wrong with them if they don't. That they are lazy, or unpatriotic, or somehow flawed or unamerican.

And they listen to that crap, and spout it at each other, while borrowing every penny they can for that vehicle they can't afford, just to hide their supposed failings from everyone else.

Yes the indoctrination in America is that, to be poor is the fault of the indivdual and their inadaquacies. A deep personal shame to be embarrassed about and hid from others.

What need of chains, when they can induce the population to enslave themselves in their deepest core.

They are not unbothered. They are deeply embarrassed, and doing their best to pretend they are not on the short end of the stick.

[americandream]

And American tv is aired almost all day in the English speaking world (and in the non-English speaking world as well). What does that say of our state of mind?

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'w')hen I choose to act with decisiveness, it will be at a time when there is no longer any evening news to watch.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roy', '
')the corollary is that any lack of ''success" the the fault of the individual.

[Kristen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem I have with these threads is they amount to nothing more than shaking your fist at heaven and crying for a savior to come down and make the world whole again.

What exactly do you propose we do? Like RangerOne, stew in nihilism while you bide your time until you can go murder anyone you deem to be "the problem"? Pine away for a massive die-off so we can go back to hunter-gatherers where private property is a foreign concept? Give communism yet another try?

[Kristen]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem I have with these threads is they amount to nothing more than shaking your fist at heaven and crying for a savior to come down and make the world whole again.

What exactly do you propose we do? Like RangerOne, stew in nihilism while you bide your time until you can go murder anyone you deem to be "the problem"? Pine away for a massive die-off so we can go back to hunter-gatherers where private property is a foreign concept? Give communism yet another try?

[Shar_Lamagne]

mos, If the Americans ever do wake up to their totally having been fleeced and dumped by the side of the road by the wealthy, then I imagine what they will do will not be rational but based on anger and a need for vengence.

It will start with the odd sole attempts, but these will eventually grow into accelerating random acts of violence against percieved oppressors, which when enough takes place is considered a revolution.

"What can you do about it?" and "Things are the way they are." are cop-outs.

It sounds like you are patting yourself on the back for being rational and just accepting what the fates have handed you. Like you are saying, they only make you bend over and squeal like a pig on Tuesdays and Thursdays and that's better than just losing ones cool and going after those to blame.

I'm sure most, once they know the truth, will not agree with you. They will not just "grow-up" and take it like a slave.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', ' ')Now how are you going to deal with it besides whining?

[Shar_Lamagne]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he problem I have with these threads is they amount to nothing more than shaking your fist at heaven and crying for a savior to come down and make the world whole again.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shar_Lamagne', ' ')they can then plan what to do to fight back.