Why local self-sufficient communities will fail

by **Chocky** » Thu 19 May 2005, 04:40:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t takes more thought to plan a defense without violence. Unfortunately, giving someone a gun seems to suck the thoughtfulness right out of them.

by **heyhoser** » Thu 19 May 2005, 07:11:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('heyhoser', '
')

As for my earlier post in this thread, I would have spoken more about what I was talking about in terms of 'Country Boys Can Survie' thingy, but this thread quickly degenerated into a fantasy Mad Max scenario vs. a fantasy alternate energy scenario. To all of you who talked about, 'Where are you going to get the trot line?' and that kind of stuff, it's called "PREPARATION."

by **PenultimateManStanding** » Thu 19 May 2005, 10:46:24

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('heyhoser', '
')aw, jesus, man, can't you come up with something better than that?

by **Bytesmiths** » Thu 19 May 2005, 12:01:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Raphael', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')t takes more thought to plan a defense without violence. Unfortunately, giving someone a gun seems to suck the thoughtfulness right out of them.

by **heyhoser** » Thu 19 May 2005, 12:31:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PenultimateManStanding', '
')
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '1'). Current localities are integrated into larger social systems and are not even remotely close to the ideal of self-sufficiency. They have descended from earlier similar conditions stretching back for centuries.

by **uNkNowN ElEmEnt** » Thu 19 May 2005, 12:38:57

90% of the murderers I've guarded were there becuase "the guy dis'd his girl" or "he shouldn't have looked at me like that". Feelings and emotions are totally subjective and usually have very little to do with reality. (the other 10% were premeditated oraccidents)

They are manufactured because of what you choose to think or perceive which can change from one moment to the next. Objective thought or intellect however, is responsible for all of the greatest bodies of thought like Albert Einstein, the Buddha and Ghandi.

Feelings are very powerful things and unfortunately most people out there aren't mature enough to manage their own feelings. If properly used and directed they are responsible for some of the greatest works of art.

Feelings are behind the justification we use to comit the most horrendous of crimes on other people. I have used and may use violence again when needed but it will not stem from irrational and subjective feelings. Feelings (like money) if not managed properly, WILL manage you.

by **PenultimateManStanding** » Thu 19 May 2005, 12:45:58

heyhoser, you say this that and the other things I wrote are absurd. No they aren't. they are quite surd but I'm not going to argue with a knucklehead. Go back and look at m_gibbons' posts to see the civil way of disputing a post. This thread was about what if Kunstler is right, not any prediction of mine. Hypothetical in other words. So we are going to have to go local, huh? Well might there not be some problems then, if so lets have a look.

by **heyhoser** » Thu 19 May 2005, 16:05:47

This is your thread, do what you want with it. I'm out.

by **oowolf** » Thu 19 May 2005, 16:45:01

The Kogi survived the annihilation of their civilization by adapting to a marginal, isolated environment. They were able to adjust their ALREADY highly developed survival skills but the psychological trauma persists after 400 years. May they survive to say: "We told them so..."

by **PenultimateManStanding** » Thu 19 May 2005, 19:52:19

The Kogi have their very isolated locale to keep them safe. That brings up the point of people living in small isolated areas in the industrialized countries. Heyhoser, if you read my pm and you agree with some of it, let's see if we can resume the conversation. Granted there are places where people don't have a big reliance on modern amenities. They will be spared the urban chaos. But how truly are you folks 'off the grid'? What sorts of things do you get from the outside world and are there any that you couldn't live without - say guns, ammo, hunting supplies? How much game is there running around in the woods and would it support everyone in the small community? Maybe you could do a kind of inventory or check to think about how you would fare if you could not get anything for, say, 40 years. Sure you can tend to your little farms but can you really produce enough on those little farms to keep everyone fed indefinately? I imagine there are places that would make it, maybe.

by **PenultimateManStanding** » Thu 19 May 2005, 20:31:51

I completely forgot this: there was another reason why I think self-sufficient communities won't make it - if the federal gov is truly stressed to the breaking point they will go into a spastic controll-freak mode and try to take over everything and everyone. They'll be all over every little town and village and hamlet there is rounding up able bodied men to fight in their resource wars and for use in conscript internal police forces. If you live in the back woods of North Carolina they're gonna come and make you part of the internal police and send you to Arkanas or Texas. They'll use guys from Michigan to round up the guys in Ohio, etc. If these good ol' boys think they'll disobey, watch for a page taken out of the old Soviet WWII playbook: any unit that fails to perform will be decimated: if they continue to resist they'll be decimated again.

by **Chocky** » Fri 20 May 2005, 03:55:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he last definition seems to be what you're striving for, Raphael, but the first two meanings sure are the opposite of what I think is needed in a pacifist defense strategy!

by **Pops** » Fri 20 May 2005, 07:55:37

So if the gov is going to take over everything and everyone why does this make small communities any worse off than anywhere else?

by **PenultimateManStanding** » Fri 20 May 2005, 09:38:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', 'S')o if the gov is going to take over everything and everyone why does this make small communities any worse off than anywhere else?

by **uNkNowN ElEmEnt** » Fri 20 May 2005, 11:53:10

Some forms of passive defense are misleading trails. leg traps and those nice barbed life changers the Vietnamese use on the Americans. traps to be sprung, a lion pit would also be a passive defense. Its always smart to use both.

by **mgibbons19** » Fri 20 May 2005, 19:02:39

Ahh bummer. He was an interesting guy. I can't really imagine him on an internet discussion forum though, and that would imply that the timber frame shack got some serious upgrades since I saw him last.

by **PenultimateManStanding** » Fri 20 May 2005, 19:34:34

Good thing you can't rig a pm up with explosives! I'd be in the Big Manifesto-writing Cabin In The Sky now. :lol:

by **heyhoser** » Sat 21 May 2005, 13:20:42

Okay, guys. I conceed that you are making some very good points, although I have more faith in our ingenuity as a species and as individuals.

But, going with your ideas about 'self-sufficient' communities failing, what do you foresee happening and can you give some better sollutions? I like the camoflauge idea and admit that there will have to be some forms of pretending (to say the least), but I don't get how it would be safer to be a sheep in wolf's clothing in the wolf's lair than it would be to get some sheep together and try and stay out of the wolf's way or be prepared to turn him back.

I agree, though, that we are not entering some sort of green paradise. PO will be hell on earth. More western-civilization citizens will die from war, brutality, and government control than will starve.

by **Bytesmiths** » Sat 21 May 2005, 15:05:04

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Chocky', 'I') understand how weapons can be used for defence, but I still don't know what you mean by a pacifist defense.

Why local self-sufficient communities will fail

Re: Why local self-sufficient communities will fail

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