[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')hat’s worse than a corporatist shill, an unknowing one.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', ' ')I have more to fear in my job from a union member who doesn't like my politics or haircut

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', ' ')I have more to fear in my job from a union member who doesn't like my politics or haircut

[wisconsin_cur]

Again, a demonstration of logic that is right up there with, "We can not let the 'smoking gun' be a mushroom cloud over New York there fore we need to invade Iraq."

We can all fantasize about a future where we are justified; heck, we probably all do.

That does not mean that our fantasies have any impact as a rational argument.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')hat’s worse than a corporatist shill, an unknowing one.

[rangerone314]

I do wonder though why only 8% of the private sector is unionized and 40% of the government.

I think programmers should have all unionized to protest outsourcing to India, and gone on strike if the government refused to stop corporations from outsourcing.

And by going on strike I basically mean shut down EVERY computer system in the country.

See how long the government and corporations would act badly if there was no air traffic controlling, no power, no cell phones, no Internet etc.

That kind of power had it been utilized by unions would have stopped a lot of the dismantling of the middle class that has gone on since at least the 1990s.


Or my personal idea, instead of a property tax on housing and a capital gains tax, a wealth tax where $1,000,000 in stocks or bank is taxed as property just like a house is. (Most middle class people don't own their houses yet... but they pay taxes to their local government when they owe debt)

Why not tax net worth and then charge a wealth transfer tax if wealth is transfered out of the country. If they try to avoid paying wealth transfer tax, then these ultra-conservative rich people can be rendered to Bulgaria or Tadzikstan just like they support doing to illiterate Muslims who are enslaved to the dictators supported by such ultra-rich.

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'A')gain, a demonstration of logic that is right up there with, "We can not let the 'smoking gun' be a mushroom cloud over New York there fore we need to invade Iraq."
We can all fantasize about a future where we are justified; heck, we probably all do.
That does not mean that our fantasies have any impact as a rational argument.

[Cid_Yama]

Dropkick Murphys write protest song for Wisconsin protesters
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')here are not many American rock and roll bands that stand in solidarity with the union movement as much as the Dropkick Murphys.

So it comes as no surprise that the band has released an advanced stream of a new song "Take 'Em Down" in support of the thousands of Wisconsin union workers and supporters protesting the draconian union busting plan put forth by the state's governor.

As part of the band's efforts to support the workers, they are working with SEIU and other unions and labor federations to have the song available to be played at rallies across the country. Listen to it here:

link$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')
When the boss comes callin' they'll put us down
When the boss comes callin' gotta stand your ground
When the boss comes callin' don't believe their lies

When the boss comes callin' he'll take his toll
When the boss comes callin' don't you sell your soul
When the boss comes callin' we gotta organize

Let them know
We gotta take the bastards down
Let them know
We gotta smash them to the ground
Let them know
We gotta take the bastards down

When the boss comes callin' you'll be on your own
When the boss comes callin' will you stand alone?
When the boss comes callin' will you let them in?

When the boss comes callin' will you stand and fight?
When the boss comes callin' we must unite
When the boss comes callin' we can't let them win

Let them know
We gotta take the bastards down
Let them know
We gotta smash 'em to the ground
Let them know

We gotta take the bastards down

We gotta take the bastards down

When the boss comes callin' they'll put us down
When the boss comes callin' gotta stand your ground
When the boss comes callin' don't believe their lies

When the boss comes callin' he'll take his toll
When the boss comes callin' don't you sell your soul
When the boss comes callin' we gotta organize

Let them know
We gotta take the bastards down
Let them know
We gotta smash 'em to the ground
Let them know
We gotta take the bastards down

Let them know
We gotta take the bastards down
Let them know
We gotta smash 'em to the ground
Let them know
We gotta take the bastards down

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ey Everyone the Dropkick Murphys would like to take a moment to acknowledge the struggles of the working people of Wisconsin and to pledge our support and solidarity by releasing the song “Take Em Down” from our upcoming album. We think it’s appropriate at the moment and hope you like it.

We’ll see you in Wisconsin in a few days,

The Dropkick Murphys Stand With Wisconsin !!!!!

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')hat’s worse than a corporatist shill, an unknowing one.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'A')gain, a demonstration of logic that is right up there with, "We can not let the 'smoking gun' be a mushroom cloud over New York there fore we need to invade Iraq."
We can all fantasize about a future where we are justified; heck, we probably all do.
That does not mean that our fantasies have any impact as a rational argument.

[papa moose]

I'm guessing it's his $0.02 worth

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', 'A')gain, a demonstration of logic that is right up there with, "We can not let the 'smoking gun' be a mushroom cloud over New York there fore we need to invade Iraq."
We can all fantasize about a future where we are justified; heck, we probably all do.
That does not mean that our fantasies have any impact as a rational argument.

[Pretorian]

Well, my apologies then. Still, while we at it , it'd be interesting to know your opinion about it.

[papa moose]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'W')ell, my apologies then. Still, while we at it , it'd be interesting to know your opinion about it.

[wisconsin_cur]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')The fact that unions are corruptible and have been corrupted does not outweigh the benefits we all enjoy because of them. The big difference between them and corporations is that at least they make a good faith effort at defending the average person, while soulless corporatists only have their quarterly profits in mind.

And be careful, my wife is a nurse. A highly skilled, overworked, 30 year non-union one at that. The only reason she makes the wages she does, is because other unionized folk have raised her standard of pay. Even at that her benefits and pay are a joke and so are the conditions she now works under since every Tom, Dick and Mary are out of work, or without insurance and use the emergency room as their primary healthcare center.

Furthermore, I'll call anyone names that believes that the average worker should enslave themselves to corporate greed without equitable compensation or say. It's their very workers and the society that corporations live under that secures their liberty and ability to make the profits they do. It's not a one way street.

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rangerone314', 'I') do wonder though why only 8% of the private sector is unionized and 40% of the government.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', '
')The fact that unions are corruptible and have been corrupted does not outweigh the benefits we all enjoy because of them. The big difference between them and corporations is that at least they make a good faith effort at defending the average person, while soulless corporatists only have their quarterly profits in mind.

And be careful, my wife is a nurse. A highly skilled, overworked, 30 year non-union one at that. The only reason she makes the wages she does, is because other unionized folk have raised her standard of pay. Even at that her benefits and pay are a joke and so are the conditions she now works under since every Tom, Dick and Mary are out of work, or without insurance and use the emergency room as their primary healthcare center.

Furthermore, I'll call anyone names that believes that the average worker should enslave themselves to corporate greed without equitable compensation or say. It's their very workers and the society that corporations live under that secures their liberty and ability to make the profits they do. It's not a one way street.

[vision-master]

Once 'collective bargining' is deemed illegal, pensions will be gutted as what's happened in the private sector, next SS will be axed, life expectancy for the average American will be in the early 50's. There will be nothing for the older crippled up discarded worker. All those middle class republican voters will get what they asked for. We are screwed.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'O')nce 'collective bargining' is deemed illegal, pensions will be gutted as what's happened in the private sector, next SS will be axed, life expectancy for the average American will be in the early 50's. There will be nothing for the older crippled up discarded worker. All those middle class republican voters will get what they asked for. We are screwed.

[AdTheNad]

It's quite easy to make arguments against trade unions. When people join together their bargaining power increases and with union members it's easy to put a face on it, and see the action as it occurs. You need to bear in mind though, that even the strongest unions today still have far less bargaining power than large corporations and the banksters, it's just hard for most people to put the $billions into context that are received in tax breaks and handouts and bail outs.

If there are specific policies that trade unions are backing that are detrimental to the population as a whole you should target those with reasoned arguments, not the unions themselves.