[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', ' ')Scott Walker ..just wants to get them back for a quorum so he can ramrod through the legislation. Only a fool would voluntarily show up for their own hanging.

[Lore]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', ' ')Scott Walker ..just wants to get them back for a quorum so he can ramrod through the legislation. Only a fool would voluntarily show up for their own hanging.

[SpringCreekFarm]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', ' ')..............And we see MSNBC being consumed by its growing obsession with people who actually produce jobs...............

[PrestonSturges]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SpringCreekFarm', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fishman', ' ')..............And we see MSNBC being consumed by its growing obsession with people who actually produce jobs...............

[Ferretlover]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', ' ') Would Diogenes be able to find even one honest man among the Wisconsin democrats? politicians?

[the48thronin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', ' ') Would Diogenes be able to find even one honest man among the Wisconsin democrats? politicians?

[wisconsin_cur]

Do elections matter or do they only matter when your side wins and you want to get done what you want to get done?

If the Scott Walker fix is so evil, we'll have elections again and return the dems to undo what he did. If it isn't, then the complaints are hyperbole.

I'll show up and picket when one party or personality tries to cancel elections. I am not happy when one party succeeds in short-circuiting the legal process because their constituency and money will be negatively affected; regardless of the name of the constituency.

[Cid_Yama]

Cur, you need to be aware of the history. Hundreds died and thousands were injured over the decades it took to achieve the right to organize and collective bargain, which is the only thing between workers making a living wage in a safe work environment, and a return to the misery that existed at the beginning of the 20th century.

Union busting is an evil practice intended to rob workers of their ability to fight for their right to a living wage.

The system we now live in promotes wage slavery. Workers collectively bargaining with the right to walk out en masse is their only power against the wage slavers.

As was pointed out on the other thread, Laws that are not enforced, where there is no political will to enforce them, are meaningless.

This country is on the verge of losing it's Democracy. It is now a war between Social Justice and the wage slavers.

If we lose, then America becomes a fascist corporate plutocracy, filled with sweatshops just like in the third world. With wages and working conditions to rival the early 20th century.

Everything isn't some friggin political game without consequences. Everything doesn't remain the same.

Some things actually matter in life and death terms, in the future of a nation and it's people.

[wisconsin_cur]

The United States saved the world from Nazi and Japanese Facism. That does not change the fact that we later "went a little too far" on our own and needed to be reigned in.

My family members died in good wars, that does not mean the argument, "my country right or wrong" carries any logical weight. Most of the arguments from the unions "Remember who brought you the weekend." Boils down to the same.

If you (or a loved one) are admitted to my hospital you may be served by a great nurse or one who regularlly sends patients to the ICU with medical errors but is protected by a union from any disciplinary action or being fired.

Power corrupts and union power corrupts in an organized fashion. They can actually benefit by being reeled in a bit and then needing to go back and earn the trust they have wasted over the years.

[Timo]

What this all boils down to is Republican efforts to equate the dollar to free speech. Unions have consistenly been in favor of collective progress for every American worker, which has cost the rich owner class the maximum potential of their profits. Republicans are entrenched into re-creating a society where the rich have all the power, and the workers have none. Unions just shouldn't be allowed to speak out against us, and if we can equate the dollar with free speech, then we can equate corporations from any country as citizens of the US, entitled to the same rights to free speech. Unions should have fewer rights than corporations and PACs, because corporations control jobs and give us money. If Unions would support Republicans the same as they have supported Democrats, the battle against unions would not be happening today. State by state, Republican governors are siezing this opportunity to eliminate as many voices of opposition as they can. Divide and conquer. That's the American Way. It's what democracy is all about.

Really, the only solution to this, which will never happen, by the way, is to pass a Constitutional Amendment that seperates the dollar and free speech. Only citizens have the right to vote, and political contributions toward elections that govern our country should also be restricted in the same manner. Corporations and PACs cannot vote. Therefore, their rights to free speech should not be equated with unlimited monetary contributions. Our democracy is worth more than the worth of the richest 1% of the US. If you have a voice, use it. Otherwise, join a chorus of voices to make it louder. Protest. Make yourself visible as an entity to be heard. None of this has anything to do with money, but in the Republican playbook, the dollar controls everything. Using the law to eliminate voices of the opposition is UnAmerican.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', ' ')They can actually benefit by being reeled in a bit and then needing to go back and earn the trust they have wasted over the years.

[wisconsin_cur]

Ludi, see my post. Dangerous nurses and bad teachers cannot be fired. Power corrupts and union power corrupts in an organized fashion. I have more to fear in my job from a union member who doesn't like my politics or haircut than I do from management which at least acts in a predictable fashion (saving a buck).

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', ' ')I have more to fear in my job from a union member who doesn't like my politics or haircut

[Ludi]

Why are right-wingers turning on the unions and working people all of a sudden, instead of turning on the banksters and rich bastards that are taking over the country? It's frickin' BIZARRE to attack these folks who are in your same income bracket instead of being concerned that economic disparity in the US is one of the highest in the developed world. And it is not union members who are in the top income bracket, in most cases.

[Ludi]

If there are specific unions which are problematic, address those problems, but to demonize ALL unions is not beneficial, except to those business interests which hope to increase worker desperation, reduce wages, and diminish worker safety, etc. Which is EXACTLY the plan of all this. To put US workers on a par with Chinese workers.

Perhaps I have a different perspective on all this than some of you. My household benefits from union membership. I guess that makes me one of the "bad guys"!

[Lore]

What’s worse than a corporatist shill, an unknowing one.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', ' ')Scott Walker ..just wants to get them back for a quorum so he can ramrod through the legislation. Only a fool would voluntarily show up for their own hanging.

[rangerone314]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Timo', 'W')hat this all boils down to is Republican efforts to equate the dollar to free speech. Unions have consistenly been in favor of collective progress for every American worker, which has cost the rich owner class the maximum potential of their profits. Republicans are entrenched into re-creating a society where the rich have all the power, and the workers have none. Unions just shouldn't be allowed to speak out against us, and if we can equate the dollar with free speech, then we can equate corporations from any country as citizens of the US, entitled to the same rights to free speech. Unions should have fewer rights than corporations and PACs, because corporations control jobs and give us money. If Unions would support Republicans the same as they have supported Democrats, the battle against unions would not be happening today. State by state, Republican governors are siezing this opportunity to eliminate as many voices of opposition as they can. Divide and conquer. That's the American Way. It's what democracy is all about.

Really, the only solution to this, which will never happen, by the way, is to pass a Constitutional Amendment that seperates the dollar and free speech. Only citizens have the right to vote, and political contributions toward elections that govern our country should also be restricted in the same manner. Corporations and PACs cannot vote. Therefore, their rights to free speech should not be equated with unlimited monetary contributions. Our democracy is worth more than the worth of the richest 1% of the US. If you have a voice, use it. Otherwise, join a chorus of voices to make it louder. Protest. Make yourself visible as an entity to be heard. None of this has anything to do with money, but in the Republican playbook, the dollar controls everything. Using the law to eliminate voices of the opposition is UnAmerican.

[PrestonSturges]

Did someone mention Fascism? There is a Fascist movement which is moving full speed ahead in the United States. Breaking unions is one of the main obsessions of Fascism, and it's one of the first things they do.

Since "Citizens United," the plan is clearly to establish permanent one party rule under a blanket of "news" propaganda (Fox) and unlimited spending on political advertising, with senile old shites like the Kochs (whose dad helped found the John Birch Society). The United States is moving towards one party rule by literally insane right wingers.

But if it's any consolation, this is as good a form of "doom" as any. So if the GOP wins in 2012 and starts implementing their plans, you're going to see an ever larger number of people going off the internet and disconnecting the cable TV, getting fake IDs, and figure out how to travel unseen.

If the GOP gets a supermajority in 2012, Americans will have to make tough choices because they are not ever going to leave power voluntarily. We can:
1) Cooperate and profit
2) Pretend to cooperate and sabotage (Schindlers List). Corrupting databases will be especially effective.
3) GTF out of the country.
4) Form an active resistance underground
5) Lay low and practice marksmanship
6) Actively join GOP groups, organize bake sales, and amass information about the local power structure

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'a') blanket of "news" propaganda (Fox)