[Poordogabone]

The most disturbing aspect of this (non prosecution of Bush & CO), is the setting of a precedent. Now American presidents have a blank check to break international laws with no fear of consequences. It also creates a moral hazard where other heads of states won't take the rule of law seriously, all they have to do is use a phony excuse like terrorism and it is a free for all.
Remember we sculpt the world we live in.

[Cid_Yama]

The United States is now on a list of countries that has committed war crimes and engaged in torture.

Thank you, Mr Bush! You have despoiled the image of our great country, and it is something we cannot erase.

You put us right out there on par with the people of Nazi Germany and Serbia.

You may not care about the reputation and honor of the United States, but most Americans do.

You Americans on this thread defending those actions are dispicable.

What other people do, is irrelevant. Didn't your mother ever teach you that?

You have soiled our flag and put a mark on our national soul.

You have shamed us before the world.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', 'T')he United States is now on a list of countries that has committed war crimes and engaged in torture.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Poordogabone', '
')It also creates a moral hazard where other heads of states won't take the rule of law seriously, all they have to do is use a phony excuse like terrorism and it is a free for all.
Remember we sculpt the world we live in.

[Cid_Yama]

Fighting an asymetrical war does not require the violation of the Geneva Conventions or commiting crimes against humanity.

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Poordogabone', '[')b]The most disturbing aspect of this (non prosecution of Bush & CO), is the setting of a precedent. Now American presidents have a blank check to break international laws with no fear of consequences. It also creates a moral hazard where other heads of states won't take the rule of law seriously, all they have to do is use a phony excuse like terrorism and it is a free for all.
Remember we sculpt the world we live in.

[SeaGypsy]

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... rture&aq=f

Bush admitted torture.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', '
')
Ok ok I'll back down from the devil's advocate perch. I'm sure our resident forum lawyers are more familiar with the particulars, but essentially some of our constitutional rights have been eroded.. and yeah that's dangerous precedent.

And honestly I'm still in disbelief that we, the United States, used torture.

This all gets tricky though if there really is cause to think a nuclear attack or some such is being planned.. do you "torture" a little if it can prevent something like that? In all honesty it's a tough call.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'h')ttp://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=bush+admits+torture&aq=f

Bush admitted torture.

[SeaGypsy]

So my kid is walking down your street, gets raped and murdered; I can arrest whoever I find still hanging around your street and torture them until they confess? Is that the way to catch the criminal?
There are very sound reasons torture is banned.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'S')o my kid is walking down your street, gets raped and murdered; I can arrest whoever I find still hanging around your street and torture them until they confess? Is that the way to catch the criminal?
There are very sound reasons torture is banned.

[SeaGypsy]

Under the same analogy, the USA is seen as a tyrant in many places in the world. Therefore these at least somewhat justifiable assertions warrant kidnap and torture of Americans wherever they can be found; especially if they have ANY military affiliation.

[Plantagenet]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'U')nder the same analogy, the USA is seen as a tyrant in many places in the world. Therefore these at least somewhat justifiable assertions warrant kidnap and torture of Americans wherever they can be found; especially if they have ANY military affiliation.

[Shar_Lamagne]

So the right-wing fascists come out of the woodwork to argue that torture is good. Why am I not surprised.

It of course misses the whole point. Torture is illegal. Repeated torture as a matter of policy is a crime against humanity.

And morally, torture and those that argue for it are Evil.

[Ferretlover]

IMO. as long as there has been humans* on this planet, there has, undoubtably, been torture. And, as long as there are humans, with different ideas living together, there will be torture. It is just that some incidents get more press than others.
Whether or not it happens depends more on peer pressure or the chance to get away with it, than whether or not there's a law regarding it.

*I am not quite sure what would qualify as torture in the animal/plant kingdoms.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cid_Yama', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he Rome Statute Explanatory Memorandum states that crimes against humanity

are particularly odious offenses in that they constitute a serious attack on human dignity or grave humiliation or a degradation of one or more human beings. They are not isolated or sporadic events, but are part either of a government policy (although the perpetrators need not identify themselves with this policy) or of a wide practice of atrocities tolerated or condoned by a government or a de facto authority. However, murder, extermination, torture, rape, political, racial, or religious persecution and other inhumane acts reach the threshold of crimes against humanity only if they are part of a widespread or systematic practice. Isolated inhumane acts of this nature may constitute grave infringements of human rights, or depending on the circumstances, war crimes, but may fall short of meriting the stigma attaching to the category of crimes under discussion. On the other hand, an individual may be guilty of crimes against humanity even if he perpetrates one or two of the offences mentioned above, or engages in one such offense against only a few civilians, provided those offenses are part of a consistent pattern of misbehavior by a number of persons linked to that offender (for example, because they engage in armed action on the same side or because they are parties to a common plan or for any similar reason.) Consequently when one or more individuals are not accused of planning or carrying out a policy of inhumanity, but simply of perpetrating specific atrocities or vicious acts, in order to determine whether the necessary threshold is met one should use the following test: one ought to look at these atrocities or acts in their context and verify whether they may be regarded as part of an overall policy or a consistent pattern of an inhumanity, or whether they instead constitute isolated or sporadic acts of cruelty and wickedness.

[Poordogabone]

Sixstrings wrote:$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his all gets tricky though if there really is cause to think a nuclear attack or some such is being planned.. do you "torture" a little if it can prevent something like that? In all honesty it's a tough call.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shar_Lamagne', 'S')o the right-wing fascists come out of the woodwork to argue that torture is good. Why am I not surprised.

It of course misses the whole point. Torture is illegal. Repeated torture as a matter of policy is a crime against humanity.

And morally, torture and those that argue for it are Evil.

[Shar_Lamagne]

Torture is both illegal and the height of Evil no matter what the circumstances. Period.

Better look to your soul.

[Pretorian]

Who gave you the authority to define what is good and what is bad?