[vision-master]

College for many has become nothing more than a 'union card' the past couple of decades OR so?

[Revi]

College is worth it if you can do it without many loans. There are ways to get a college degree and not incur much debt. Live without a car, brown bag it, work study, scholarships, etc. It's one of the few places you can be in our society that is outside of the whole commercial world. I made it through both undergrad and grad school with only minimal loans. Of course I worked three jobs and lived on very little. It can be done.

If my job goes away I may pop back into the ivory tower for some more book larnin'. Why not?

[Daniel_Plainview]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'I') made it through both undergrad and grad school with only minimal loans. Of course I worked three jobs and lived on very little. It can be done.

[vision-master]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'C')ollege is worth it if you can do it without many loans. There are ways to get a college degree and not incur much debt. Live without a car, brown bag it, work study, scholarships, etc. It's one of the few places you can be in our society that is outside of the whole commercial world. I made it through both undergrad and grad school with only minimal loans. Of course I worked three jobs and lived on very little. It can be done.

If my job goes away I may pop back into the ivory tower for some more book larnin'. Why not?

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')The girl next door finishes college last Month. What kind of job does she get. A retail store management job. How fooken grand.

[Unconventional Ideas]

So the answer is everyone should major in marketable fields, and then everyone will get a job, right?

The unemployment situation is really that simple, isn't it?

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Unconventional Ideas', 'S')o the answer is everyone should major in marketable fields, and then everyone will get a job, right?

The unemployment situation is really that simple, isn't it?

[RankineCycle]

Depends on the field of study. Engineering, yes. Business, no. Funky over-specialized degree (e.g. "astrobiophysics"), no.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RankineCycle', 'D')epends on the field of study. Engineering, yes. Business, no. Funky over-specialized degree (e.g. "astrobiophysics"), no.

[SeaGypsy]

Engineering still depends on growth of some kind. Without recent bailouts engineering degrees would currently be in heavy oversupply. It takes at least 4 years to knock over an engineering degree. There is no garauntee of engineering job abundance in 2015. Chindia and SE Asia are churning out millions a year.

[Serial_Worrier]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'E')ngineering still depends on growth of some kind. Without recent bailouts engineering degrees would currently be in heavy oversupply. It takes at least 4 years to knock over an engineering degree. There is no garauntee of engineering job abundance in 2015. Chindia and SE Asia are churning out millions a year.

[SeaGypsy]

Personally I have always chased the money without investing in a specialisation in particular to the point of doing a degree. I have found that I can get good work via a combination of contacts, being prepared to go literally anywhere and having a resume which shows I can apply myself to a very broad array of occupations.

I know a lot of people making good money on oil and gas projects, and 'security contracting' but many other occupations are in the doldrums. Public works engineers and structual engineers are a dime a dozen in Asia. The guys I know making the best money are on security related assingments in the middle east and Afghanistan, often over $500 a day. They are all veterans though and are used to putting their lives on the line.

Oil and gas jobs are often described as 'the most boring jobs in the world' by friends in the game, but the money is pretty nice. Australia is currently paying more than double US rates for blue collar up positions. A rig diver from the US working half the year is on under $60k while the same job on the North Sea or North West shelf is a $1k per day payer. You can get qualified as a rig diver for about $10k over a few weeks. That's what I'm telling my 18 year old son to get into.

I am about to do my umpteenth career change, after 3 years nursing and studying part time I have realised I don't want to do it anymore. If I had gone the route of a degree in nursing, I would have wasted it. As an apprentice on special conditions I have been able to come and go, get paid as if qualified and had a good work life balance. I could have spent 4 years studying to blow glass and not learned a fraction of what I learned apprenticed to my father. I could have studied agriculture and not learned nearly as much as spending several years working and travelling on farms, with a lot of volunteer work on organic places. I could have done a degree in aboriginal cultural studies and not learned a thing compared to having lived and worked with these people for a decade or more over 40 years; somthing which came about by the passions of my father also.

It is rare to meet a young person these days who is genuinely passionate about their career. That is a big part of what is missing. You can have all the quals in the world, but if you don't really love your work, it will gradually wear you down to where you doubt your own validity as a person.

Being passionate about making money used to be enough, once upon a time in the west. No more. Time to rekindle the old ideals of parentage and craft, the talent based trade; the traditional apprenticeship system. Universities have become a joke.

Advice to the young: Look around, take a really good look; find someone doing something that inspires you. Get to know that craft and the people in it. Find the best in the game. Get a feel for the industry and the people by pushing a broom or taking out garbage. Never miss an opportunity to please the team and the boss. Become part of the place, make yourself indespensible; do overtime/ weekends/ night call outs. I am willing to bet with the right attitude you will get to be where you really want to be.
You will be earning and learning. Eventually you will likely gain qualifications via employer sponsored training and RPL. If it turns out not to be what you thought, that's ok, start over. You will have a golden reference for the try.

This attitude has been my truth since I was a very young man. It may turn out my long wait for collapse never ends, but every year it looks more likely sooner than later. I may have missed out on some opportunities in life by not going to University, but I have not missed out on opportunity.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', ' ')Never miss an opportunity to please the team and the boss. Become part of the place, make yourself indespensible; do overtime/ weekends/ night call outs. I am willing to bet with the right attitude you will get to be where you really want to be.

[PrestonSturges]

You want advice? Throw away your video game console. that's half the battle right there.

[SeaGypsy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', ' ')Never miss an opportunity to please the team and the boss. Become part of the place, make yourself indespensible; do overtime/ weekends/ night call outs. I am willing to bet with the right attitude you will get to be where you really want to be.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '
')My point is that if you had someone who had been making themself usefull at the gofer end of your staff, who showed the aptitude and initiative to the task, you would likely try to find a way to bump them up as opportunity arose.

[SeaGypsy]

Your education system is quite different to Australia's. For us it's not difficult to do a degree part time over 6 years while working full time and earning. If your work is relevant to your degree you can usually get recognition of prior learning incorporated into the degree. We also only have to pay back 20% of the cost and we get student allowances. Being enrolled somewhere can help you get a job you aren't yet qualified for in many cases. I would not like to have a huge debt for a career I don't want. Also Australia is very tied in with Asia and high end positions can be filled from anywhere in the world. I know several computer engineers without work in Australia because they don't have the 10 years experience to back it up. If you can work and study in the same area, you become qualified in a timeframe which matches your experience, avoiding this catch.

[vision-master]

I can tell Xenophobe is a book learner.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'I') can tell Xenophobe is a book learner.

[FairMaiden]

My experience is fairly similar to SeaGypsy where I have worked my way up in a few fields and done well for myself w/no degree. I get bored also so I've done everything from security/private investigating to IT to project management. If you own your own business, the degree doesn't matter.

But the question is whether the degree is still worth it...and I would say no. The value of a degree is deteriorating when you add up the costs of getting it and the number of jobs out there. If I were starting out today tho, I would certainly get an education - I just would go for a technical diploma instead of a degree. Radiation therapy or something specialized that is needed...maybe even plumbing or electrical even tho I'm female.

I know a lot of ppl think gov't jobs are useless and do not create value. But our office does child abuse investigations...I don't understand how you think that gets done if it isn't the gov't? How can you say that's useless? And why would anyone want ppl w/o degrees or some serious training doing that kind of work? (I don't do it directly, I'm in a support role)

I've considered going to night school just to have a piece of paper bc there is a ceiling to where I can go. But, the $ above that ceiling doesn't justify the "shite" I'd have to put up with in my mind.