[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('patience', 'M')y wife and I each have degrees, from which we learned very little of real usefulness, but they did obtain us both entry into our respective fields. That was a long time ago. Things are different now. Our two daughters each have degrees, also, neither of which gained them entry into the work they are doing, sort of like Tanada.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')t took me quite a while after university until I learned to think. And I still work hard at it every day. But I'm pretty slow.....

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')t took me quite a while after university until I learned to think. And I still work hard at it every day. But I'm pretty slow.....

[dsula]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')t took me quite a while after university until I learned to think. And I still work hard at it every day. But I'm pretty slow.....

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')t took me quite a while after university until I learned to think. And I still work hard at it every day. But I'm pretty slow.....

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', 'E')ngineering & science school is teaching you how to think. Medicine doesn't. Medicine is simply remembering which pill works for which symptom.

[DoomersUnite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')hat would all be true if I were working in the education field, however I am not.

[evilgenius]

Again this thread is not respecting education for education's sake. Everybody seems to want to see a result that brings about a further action that is in no sense actually implied in the education itself. For instance, how can you possibly look at a chemistry education and say that you took nothing from it when before you learned what it gives you you knew so much less about the world? Yeah, you can if you didn't manage to make a huge fortune off of it. I get that, but that is kind of sad really. It seems that Ayn Rand raises her dark head here insofar as many of you want to analyze things that you receive from the history of human experience in light of 'what have you done for me lately' thinking. Yeah, I am poking at you other posters with this because I want you to tell us if that is truly what you think or if you can honestly remember who you were before you became educated. Me, I was highly intelligent but on the road to self-indulgence and waste of a sort. I might still be there now, but it is ameliorated somewhat because of my education. I respect what it has given me even if it is not enough. I will use what I have managed to take from the experience (which is by no means everything they tried to teach me) and direct that knowledge into the future. Education is part of life, it isn't everything. Just because it isn't everything does not mean that it is nothing.

[dsula]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dsula', '
')Engineering & science school is teaching you how to think. Medicine doesn't. Medicine is simply remembering which pill works for which symptom.

[patience]

I'm convinced that people either learn to think as a child, or not. Yes, a college experience MAY enhance that, or may be a detriment, depending on the content. My formal education was to a great degree an impediment to critical thinking, causing me to waste many years to rid myself of the indoctrination. (You need to clean the barn before putting new stock in it.)

Small children have a brain like a sponge that soaks up most of what they will ever know before puberty. So, choose your parents carefully, since they not only control your heredity, but also give you a large part of that early education. I did learn a few facts and basic processes in college. A fair number of those "facts" turned out to be in error, as later research proved. Most of the technology I absorbed then, was at least 10 years old, and needed to be updated in the first month of my first job. But the degree DID get me in the door.

The vast majority of what I used in a 35 year engineering career came from what I learned as a kid. I was fortunate to have had realtives who were skilled and knowledgeable--and able to TEACH that in an effective way. I learned the much-touted "scientific method" from my Dad (who had an 8th grade education, back when that meant something). His simple approach was "try your idea and see what happens--if it doesn't work, figure out why and remember that".

I spent far too much time trying to teach new grads their jobs in industry. Basic stuff, like how to do math in your head, estimating, effective design of experiments, and to NOT re-invent the wheel, but rather use something readily available to apply to the problem. But, then, success in practical engineering depends entirely on results, not on the development of fine thoughts and theories that are seldom if ever tested. This is contrary to academic pursuits such as economics, where one can put faulty theories into practice and blame someone or something else for failure.

Sorry, but my respect for formal education in the US (not necessarily in other places) has dwindled steadily over a lifetime of seeing the results of it put into practice. Witness the present state of the US. I rest my case.

[DoomersUnite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'A')gain this thread is not respecting education for education's sake. Everybody seems to want to see a result that brings about a further action that is in no sense actually implied in the education itself. For instance, how can you possibly look at a chemistry education and say that you took nothing from it when before you learned what it gives you you knew so much less about the world?

[DoomersUnite]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'A')gain this thread is not respecting education for education's sake. Everybody seems to want to see a result that brings about a further action that is in no sense actually implied in the education itself. For instance, how can you possibly look at a chemistry education and say that you took nothing from it when before you learned what it gives you you knew so much less about the world?

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('evilgenius', 'A')gain this thread is not respecting education for education's sake. Everybody seems to want to see a result that brings about a further action that is in no sense actually implied in the education itself.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '
')BTW, I forbid my daughter from reading this thread. She is 15 and has just started in Lycee in France. But she is doing languages (and she is already fluent in three) and music.

There will always be room for 'charmantes demoiselles' as her new science teacher described her, in the world of translation and music, no matter how badly things are going. That's why she will do music, art and languages for her degree.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', '
')BTW, I forbid my daughter from reading this thread. She is 15 and has just started in Lycee in France. But she is doing languages (and she is already fluent in three) and music.

There will always be room for 'charmantes demoiselles' as her new science teacher described her, in the world of translation and music, no matter how badly things are going. That's why she will do music, art and languages for her degree.

[Pretorian]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'W')atch it, I'm heavily armed

[efarmer]

I am glad people pursue languages and art and music with their whole beings. It accounts for many of the wonderful moments and joys of our lifetimes and will be needed more rather than less in replacement of materialism. Daddy's gun will be negated by one loving glance from his little girl when the time comes.

If she needs to learn how to clog to jug band music on a rotten plank stuck in the mud, I would be able to tutor, but I imagine it will not be high on her list of techniques to master.


"It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for."
Will Rogers

[evilgenius]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('efarmer', 'I') am glad people pursue languages and art and music with their whole beings. It accounts for many of the wonderful moments and joys of our lifetimes and will be needed more rather than less in replacement of materialism. ... "It's a good thing we don't get all the government we pay for." ~Will Rogers

[Daniel_Plainview]

Monday, January 31, 2011
College Bubble Set to Burst in 2011
Editorial at inflation.us

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he National Inflation Association believes that the United States has a college education bubble that is set to burst beginning in mid-2011. This bursting bubble will have effects that are even more far-reaching than the bursting of the Real Estate bubble in 2006. College education could possibly be the largest scam in U.S. history.

NIA's advice to the youth of America today is to think for yourselves. Don't get suckered into overpaying for a college degree that is worthless because everyone else has one. College is only worth attending if you plan on actually learning something there. If you are only going to college because you think a piece of paper is going to help you find a job, you would be much better off skipping college and entering the workforce right now at any entry level job. Your experience will benefit you more than any piece of paper.

...Americans lost $10.2 trillion in paper wealth in 2008, and have only recouped a fraction of it since then. College is the only thing in America that never declined in price during the panic of 2008. It actually rose in price substantially. The annual tuition for a private four-year college was $21,235 in the 2005-2006 school year. Despite Real Estate beginning to collapse in late-2006, college tuition rose by 4.6% in the 2006-2007 school year to $22,218. Despite the stock market beginning to collapse in late-2007, college tuition rose by 6.7% in the 2007-2008 school year to $23,712. Despite oil and other commodities collapsing in late-2008, college tuition rose by 6.2% in the 2008-2009 school year to $25,177. Even after the Dow Jones crashed to a low in early-2009 of 6,469, college tuition still rose by 4.4% in the 2009-2010 school year to $26,273.

Annual tuition for a private four-year college in America is now $27,293, up 29% from five years ago. Meanwhile, the employment situation in the U.S. has deteriorated. There are currently 130.7 million non-farm jobs in America, down 3% from 134.5 million U.S. non-farm jobs in December 2005. 3.8 million jobs have been lost, while the U.S. population has grown by approximately 14 million people during the same time period. We would need to have seen the creation of 6.7 million non-farm jobs just to stay even, but now we are 10.5 million jobs short.

All across America, thousands of students are graduating law school each year with $250,000 in debt, but with no jobs at law firms available to them. 15,000 attorney and legal staff jobs have disappeared since 2008, yet 43,000 law degrees are being handed out each year. Law degrees are losing their value faster than the U.S. dollar is losing its purchasing power. Lawyers are non-producing workers that do nothing to create any real wealth for society. The artificially high incomes of lawyers are made possible entirely by inflation, which steals the wealth from hard working goods producing middle-class Americans and transfers it to those who add no real value to society.

...The college tuition bubble has been fueled by the U.S. government's willingness to give out easy student loans to anybody who applies for them. If it wasn't for government student loans, the free market would force colleges to provide the best quality education at the lowest possible price. By the government trying to make colleges more affordable, they have actually driven prices through the roof. Colleges have been encouraged to spend recklessly on wasteful construction projects, building new libraries, gyms, sports arenas, housing units, etc. Colleges spent $10.7 billion on construction projects in 2009. Although this is down from an average of $14.7 billion per year colleges spent on construction projects from 2005 to 2007, colleges are still struggling to pay off their old construction related debt. When interest rates start to rise, it will add further upside pressure to college tuition prices.

College students borrowed $106 billion in total student loans for the 2009-2010 school year, up from $96 billion in 2008-2009, $94 billion in 2007-2008, $87 billion in 2006-2007, and $83 billion in 2005-2006. Total student loan debt in the U.S. currently stands at $830 billion and now exceeds credit card debt. President Obama's new student loan bill that was passed last year now makes the government the primary lender to students. By taking the free market out of the student loan business and allowing students to receive loans from the government at artificially low interest rates, colleges will be encouraged to spend more recklessly than ever. None of this wasteful spending is doing anything to improve the quality of education in America.

continued

[Sixstrings]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Daniel_Plainview', 'M')onday, January 31, 2011
College Bubble Set to Burst in 2011
Editorial at [url=http://inflation.us/collegebubble.html]inflation.us[/url