[JLK]

We'll end up turning to nuclear power in the US to generate our electricity because we'll have to. Coal is too dirty and there are imminent supply issues with natural gas.

One of the problems you are likely to run into when reading up on Peak Oil is that many of the authors (Heinberg and Darley come to mind) are also leftist anti-nuclear greenies. They'll mumble something in their books about nuclear also being non-renewable (true, but with fast breeder technology the fuel will last practically forever), expensive (mainly because their ideological soulmates keep the utilities in perpetual litigation) and that the waste problem is intractable (its a big planet).

We need to initiate research now into the nuclear technology of the future. MarkR's ideas should be treated with respect.

[JLK]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Andy', 'I')n 50 years, it has proven that it cannot even stand on its own two feet without numerous subsidies like the Insurance liability subsidy, the waste management subsidy and others.

[AdvocatusDiaboli]

The fears about nuclear waste are overblown.
If you reprocess it, the resulting waste will decay to below the radioactivity level of naturally occuring uranium within 5000-10000 years.
The vast majority of the radiation is gone after a hundred years. A substance cannot be both highly radioactive and have a long half-life.
Highly radioactive isotopes decay quickly - that's why they're so radioactive.
Furthermore, assume that Yucca mountain for some reason would "leak" and after a thousand or two thousand years small amounts of radioactive substances would start to migrate out. Aside from the fact that this appears to be impossible, this would be a VERY slow process and the ABSOLUTE WORST that could happen is that drinking water a couple of miles around becomes unusable and the area becomes unsuitable for agriculture. So what?
If you're interested in learning about long-term nuclear waste storage google "natural nuclear reactor" to read about the gabon subterranean nuclear reactor.
The fission products have staid contained in the rock in the vincinity of where they were produced for BILLIONS of years.

[foolcell]

Fuel cell discussion

First, let me say that I am very pleased to have come across this website, it's nice to see open and frank discussion about the current energy quandary. I would like to share my thoughts and feelings about the hype of fuel cells. About 5 years ago, I started working in the fuel cell industry as a mechanical engineer, with an attitude that this fuel cell thing was going to save the world and make me richer than bill gates. I worked extremely hard on my task of improving plate design and manufacturing the finished product. Things where going good, I got few patents and the product was selling to our customers. This was the trend for a few years, new designs, and improvements. Then are customers started to ask if we could make a few million a year then 500 million plus a year (this is just the ramp up). Each fuel cell has about 180 plates per stack with about ~150 million cars on the road a complete crossover to fuel cells would require ~27,000,000,000 bipolar plates annually. I thought man this is great this is right where we want to be making million no TRILLIONS of bi polar plates. A few days passed and I began thinking how this stupid was. What’s the point of this information? Well that the corporate types are selling to anybody that will buy it that fuel cell are the answer. Without any regard to the facts about it, one day I asked my bosses boss the GM of the company about this he said that’s “great news are shareholders will love itâ€

[Jack]

Do the plates require platinum? And, if so, how much platinum would be required to fulfill the demand?

It seems problematic, doesn't it?

[Devil]

Not to mention obtaining clean fuel to pump into the cell without emitting CO2 (or worse).

[big_rc]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Jack', 'D')o the plates require platinum? And, if so, how much platinum would be required to fulfill the demand?

It seems problematic, doesn't it?

[Jack]

Thanks, big_rc!

I appreciate the info.

[Agren]

Matrix-style feeding-farms, anyone?

Actually, it's kinda cool I think
AJ

[boilingleadbath]

".2 watts"
Hey, that's enough to power a laser-pointer!
Or a watch (implant), a calculator (implant), or hearing aid (impland).

On the other hand... my computer's using 1,000 times or so that much.
Big woop de doo. Not to mention, the EROEI is negitive.

Edit: nevermind... that's .2 MILIwatts...

[JLK]

Well, when you think about it, human beings are nothing more than fuel cells running on blood.

[TrueKaiser]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('boilingleadbath', '"').2 watts"
Hey, that's enough to power a laser-pointer!
Or a watch (implant), a calculator (implant), or hearing aid (impland).

On the other hand... my computer's using 1,000 times or so that much.
Big woop de doo. Not to mention, the EROEI is negitive.

Edit: nevermind... that's .2 MILIwatts...

[Devilboy]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TrueKaiser', 'y')ou know just to be fair you might want to look up how little electricty the first prototypes of the curent generators we use, made and their eroei.
unlike what popular media like movies and tv shows tell you, prototypes never work as well or as efficeint as the mature version.

[jaakkeli]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Agren', 'M')atrix-style feeding-farms, anyone?

[TrueKaiser]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Devilboy', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TrueKaiser', 'y')ou know just to be fair you might want to look up how little electricty the first prototypes of the curent generators we use, made and their eroei.
unlike what popular media like movies and tv shows tell you, prototypes never work as well or as efficeint as the mature version.

[Berkeley]

This sounds like a big deal, if it's half for real (no platinum???). Why isn't it being noticed on the peak oil news? What's the catch?

[FireJack]

I don't really see this as making any kind of big impact.

[baldwincng]

It is possible to take natural gas and use it in a fuel cell to make heat and electricity. Having said that, given that it is also possible to set fire to natural gas in a domestic CHP unit to get heat and electricity, why bother?

It is also possible to take natural gas and build a chemical plant the size of a small country and convert the natural gas into a relatively clean form of diesel, then mix it with ordinary dirty diesel and use it in vehicle engines.

Given that you can run vehicles on natural gas, why bother?

It is also possible to travel west from Los Angeles to New York

There is no end of utterly pointless things that can be done.

[BiGG]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('baldwincng', 'I')t is possible to take natural gas and use it in a fuel cell to make heat and electricity. Having said that, given that it is also possible to set fire to natural gas in a domestic CHP unit to get heat and electricity, why bother?

It is also possible to take natural gas and build a chemical plant the size of a small country and convert the natural gas into a relatively clean form of diesel, then mix it with ordinary dirty diesel and use it in vehicle engines.

Given that you can run vehicles on natural gas, why bother?

It is also possible to travel west from Los Angeles to New York

There is no end of utterly pointless things that can be done.

[baldwincng]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he system will create CO2 savings of 30 to 50 per cent, even allowing for some CO2 being produced by the fuel cell running on natural gas."