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THE Unemployment Benefits Thread (merged)

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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Pretorian » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 12:53:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'H')edge fund operators have reason to rejoice this Christmas. While they only pay 15% on their unearned income, their secretaries are paying 25% on their income. Happy spending! Of course the unemployed will have no income.





Unearned income pretty much always implies risk. Are you going to chip in with 15% if I lose money on a trade? And yeah, lets just cry for the loss of income for the unemployed. I am soo upset they will have to find a job now!
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby ColossalContrarian » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 13:05:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', ' ')You’re obviously confused with the differences between those living in Section 8 Housing and people who have been recently unemployed from their jobs through no fault of their own, or the wealthy that buy on whole different level then your typical strip mall shopper.


Isn't unemployment everyone's fault? The blame game needs to stop because it won't put food in people's stomach. When the UE benefits run out people need to move to welfare and possibly section 8 housing. With no job, you can't afford a house and a nice car. This is about more than being unemployed, it's the reality that everyone (except for the top 1%) is going to start living a lot different life. Once again, we've known this would happen for how long now?

It's like storing food for winter because you know things are going to get bad while everyone else parties and fattens up on the food they should be storing. Now winter is here and you being wise have some food but barely enough to feed your own family. Meanwhile the neighbors are going hungry and expect you to save the day yet you never partook in the partying because you knew things would get bad. Now you're the bad guy for not sharing. The neighbors expect you to starve your family and give them the food.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Lore » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 13:09:32

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'H')edge fund operators have reason to rejoice this Christmas. While they only pay 15% on their unearned income, their secretaries are paying 25% on their income. Happy spending! Of course the unemployed will have no income.





Unearned income pretty much always implies risk. Are you going to chip in with 15% if I lose money on a trade? And yeah, lets just cry for the loss of income for the unemployed. I am soo upset they will have to find a job now!


What does that have to do with anything? They hit the jackpot at the casino and they should just be able to walk away holding most of the till? Try doing that at your local Indian gambling establishment. By definition, unearned income means they didn’t work to get it. By the way, being in business in general always implies risk. If they don't like risk they shouldn't be in business in the first place.

Yes, you should be upset, because the discrepancy between the have and have not’s is widening, which will mean big trouble for everybody.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Lore » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 14:09:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ColossalContrarian', '
')Isn't unemployment everyone's fault? The blame game needs to stop because it won't put food in people's stomach. When the UE benefits run out people need to move to welfare and possibly section 8 housing. With no job, you can't afford a house and a nice car. This is about more than being unemployed, it's the reality that everyone (except for the top 1%) is going to start living a lot different life. Once again, we've known this would happen for how long now?

It's like storing food for winter because you know things are going to get bad while everyone else parties and fattens up on the food they should be storing. Now winter is here and you being wise have some food but barely enough to feed your own family. Meanwhile the neighbors are going hungry and expect you to save the day yet you never partook in the partying because you knew things would get bad. Now you're the bad guy for not sharing. The neighbors expect you to starve your family and give them the food.


I think it would be wonderful to live like it was 150 years ago when 9 out of 10 workers were self employed. Then again, back in 1860, there were only 31.5 million people living in the U.S. and about 4 million of those were slaves. Cheap energy and industrialization, along with a new thing called mass marketing, flipped that whole equation.

There are two big factors that have changed the landscape of the modern U.S. worker. Technology and Globalization. Both of which have contributed over the last 10 years to 40,000 factories being closed and 8,000,000 workers unemployed. Meanwhile the difference between the average wage of a corporate worker and the top execs has gone from a ratio of 1 to 30 times, back in the 50s, to 1 to 300 times income today. While the few at the top are getting richer by applying these factors, their former workers are struggling to find a way just to stay even.

The Robber Barons of industry during the early 19th century enjoyed the same kind of wealth that our top income earners are experiencing now, that is, until just prior to the Great Depression. Which by the way was the last time there was such a wide gap between the wages of the top and average worker. Now, I’m not blaming our current statesmen of business for being wealthy, but they also have an implicit contract with those who have allowed them their riches. Breaking that contract by totally disregarding their fair contribution to the society they live in and allowing them to be the privileged puts everyone in jeopardy.

If nothing changes, it will ultimately end up looking like a Greek Tragedy, where the people end up defying their gods.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby IsThisRealLife » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 14:39:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'L')ot's of ignorant talk but no facts.
I can't see the ignorance about the fact that 2/3 of the country went (holiday) shopping over a weekend. If we relate to able shoppers, ie, not too young, not bedridden, not abroad, not working shifts, etc, the proportion is even higher.

Not even the Superbowl has that audience. Not even Obama's acceptance speech reached that level.

Again, things can't be that bad when everybody is buying discretionary items. Why the tax cut?
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Lore » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 14:50:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IsThisRealLife', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'L')ot's of ignorant talk but no facts.
I can't see the ignorance about the fact that 2/3 of the country went (holiday) shopping over a weekend. If we relate to able shoppers, ie, not too young, not bedridden, not abroad, not working shifts, etc, the proportion is even higher.

Not even the Superbowl has that audience. Not even Obama's acceptance speech reached that level.

Again, things can't be that bad when everybody is buying discretionary items. Why the tax cut?


Why are you so upset that the unemployed went shopping for Christmas? You want their kids to get a lump of coal in their stockings? Even Bob Cratchit was fixing to do a little something before Scrooge gave him a raise and bought the turkey.

Besides the number is 212 million at stores and online for Black Friday. I'm online everyday, but I don't buy everyday and then maybe again all that they purchased was a pack of gum.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby IsThisRealLife » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 15:19:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')hy are you so upset that the unemployed went shopping for Christmas?
I'm not upset, much less with the unemployed. It's a statement of fact that things can't be that bad when 2/3 of the country goes shopping.

I'm all for helping the misfortunated brothers and sisters.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Lore » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 15:38:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IsThisRealLife', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')hy are you so upset that the unemployed went shopping for Christmas?
I'm not upset, much less with the unemployed. It's a statement of fact that things can't be that bad when 2/3 of the country goes shopping.

I'm all for helping the misfortunated brothers and sisters.


Of course it's not that bad, but that’s right now. Those with their thinking caps on worry a little farther down the road.

It’s that ant and grasshopper thing. We’ve been a nation of grasshoppers for far too long. Most people alive today have never lived through, or experienced really hard times. So it becomes easy to dismiss something that you only read about in history books. There has always been a support net to catch them if they try and fail. In some cases even if they never tried at all. People will attempt to live life as usual until they absolutely cannot anymore.

Quite a few people have left this forum because Peak Oil was just taking far too long to really materialize for them to stick around and worry about it, let alone personally act on it. The end wasn’t coming fast enough for them in a world where our attention span is measured in how fast a page refreshes on a website.

So stick around, it’s a long process.
The things that will destroy America are prosperity-at-any-price, peace-at-any-price, safety-first instead of duty-first, the love of soft living, and the get-rich-quick theory of life.
... Theodore Roosevelt
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Pretorian » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 16:38:23

By the way, it took me a MONTH to get 4 or 5 bids on a painting gig (almost $1000, barely 2 work days unless you pay by hour). And yeah, I called around and posted plenty of ads. I almost did the freaking thing myself. Unemployment my ass.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Ludi » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 17:44:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fiddlerdave', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') don't know why American companies dont label their stuff with big flags, if one wants to buy American there are usually options, and the consumer sentiment is there.
They would, if there were any left.



http://madeinusaforever.com/
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Pretorian » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 18:15:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'B')y the way, it took me a MONTH to get 4 or 5 bids on a painting gig (almost $1000, barely 2 work days unless you pay by hour). And yeah, I called around and posted plenty of ads. I almost did the freaking thing myself. Unemployment my ass.



A relative spent a few months and $1600 in advertisement money, to find a programmer with a masters degree who has 5 years of expierence in a certain area ( by far not that rare) that will work for about $80 K plus all bennies. Guess what-- all that effort was for 1 resume. From an UNDERQUALIFIED applicant. Unemployment my ass. People just cant get enough money for sitting their asses off dont they
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Kristen » Thu 02 Dec 2010, 22:59:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')f course it's not that bad, but that’s right now. Those with their thinking caps on worry a little farther down the road.

It’s that ant and grasshopper thing. We’ve been a nation of grasshoppers for far too long. Most people alive today have never lived through, or experienced really hard times. So it becomes easy to dismiss something that you only read about in history books. There has always been a support net to catch them if they try and fail. In some cases even if they never tried at all. People will attempt to live life as usual until they absolutely cannot anymore.

Quite a few people have left this forum because Peak Oil was just taking far too long to really materialize for them to stick around and worry about it, let alone personally act on it. The end wasn't coming fast enough for them in a world where our attention span is measured in how fast a page refreshes on a website.

So stick around, it's a long process.


It's like bleeding to death from a paper cut.

But anyways, this is perfect! Worship the rich for they are the one's with he halo's over their heads. (According to the media, who cannot seem to get enough of these folks)

Meanwhile sweep away the unemployed under the rug, let them suffer. It's their fault for being unemployed.

And the Autosuggestibility continues.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Keith_McClary » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 01:06:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IsThisRealLife', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Lore', 'W')hy are you so upset that the unemployed went shopping for Christmas?
I'm not upset, much less with the unemployed. It's a statement of fact that things can't be that bad when 2/3 of the country goes shopping.

I'm all for helping the misfortunated brothers and sisters.


This was posted in another thread (the third page ):
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd across demographics, families spend big when they ski: In one week, the average family of four spends 10 grand on lift tickets, accommodations, ski school, babysitters, meals, and the like.


Does anyone know how those statistics are arrived at? Am I counted every time I go into Wally or Dollarama? The numbers could be an average of a few 10 grand ski trips and many toothbrushes.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Fiddlerdave » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 01:13:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fiddlerdave', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('gollum', 'I') don't know why American companies dont label their stuff with big flags, if one wants to buy American there are usually options, and the consumer sentiment is there.
They would, if there were any left.



http://madeinusaforever.com/
I stand corrected.

Of course, 300 million people trying to live on the income from jobs producing these 2200 products, such as money clips, jackets, tee shirts and spoons does explain our "economic slowdown"!
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Fiddlerdave » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 01:21:10

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'B')y the way, it took me a MONTH to get 4 or 5 bids on a painting gig (almost $1000, barely 2 work days unless you pay by hour). And yeah, I called around and posted plenty of ads. I almost did the freaking thing myself. Unemployment my ass.



A relative spent a few months and $1600 in advertisement money, to find a programmer with a masters degree who has 5 years of expierence in a certain area ( by far not that rare) that will work for about $80 K plus all bennies. Guess what-- all that effort was for 1 resume. From an UNDERQUALIFIED applicant. Unemployment my ass. People just cant get enough money for sitting their asses off dont they
:lol: Oh, I am sure the $360/week unemployment truly discouraged someone from taking a job to earn "80k plus all bennies"! :rolleyes: Where was the job, Afghanistan?
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Keith_McClary » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 02:06:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('IsThisRealLife', 'G')iven or taken, 210M shopped this past Thanksgiving weekend, and given or taken again, the average shopper spent over $250. That's insane!

You and I don't need to do much math and dig statistics on age distribution, unemployment beneficiaries, etc. It's clear that a huge chunk of last month's unemployment benefits and tax breaks went to discretionary holiday shopping. Life can't be that bad after all.

I just ran accross this :
A Financial Party Platter - Nine economic thoughts to nibble on as you recover from Thanksgiving dinner
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he retailers are anticipating a solid holiday shopping season and yet they are aggressively marking down their prices well in advance. Interesting. We just got the Conference Board's annual survey and it showed that U.S. households [expect to spend] an average of just $384 on gifts this year, which is less than the $390 spent in 2009. Lynn Franco, the Conference Board's director, said "Consumers are approaching the holiday season in a somewhat cautious mood."
...
It appeared from GPS satellite imagery of shopping centers around the country that there were far more cars in the nation's parking lots than there were a year ago, obviously leading us to believe that the shopping numbers would be up as sharply. However, the first hard data from sources such as ShopperTrak would suggest that the sums spent this year are barely above those of a year ago. ShopperTrak has spending up 0.3% from a year ago, with the group blaming heaving discounting by retail shops.

If you and these guys are both right, consumers have $384 - $250 = $134 left for xmas. :(
Maybe all those cars had people living in them.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Pretorian » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 03:49:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Fiddlerdave', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'B')y the way, it took me a MONTH to get 4 or 5 bids on a painting gig (almost $1000, barely 2 work days unless you pay by hour). And yeah, I called around and posted plenty of ads. I almost did the freaking thing myself. Unemployment my ass.



A relative spent a few months and $1600 in advertisement money, to find a programmer with a masters degree who has 5 years of expierence in a certain area ( by far not that rare) that will work for about $80 K plus all bennies. Guess what-- all that effort was for 1 resume. From an UNDERQUALIFIED applicant. Unemployment my ass. People just cant get enough money for sitting their asses off dont they
:lol: Oh, I am sure the $360/week unemployment truly discouraged someone from taking a job to earn "80k plus all bennies"! :rolleyes: Where was the job, Afghanistan?


"Someone" wasnt needed. What was needed is a programmer with 5 years of expierence in a certain ( again, not rare) field that has a masters degree. The job was in a big US city, and its not a zoo like Detroit ( not yet , anyway). The thing is, you had to mail your resume. You actually had to print it and put it in the envelope, and buy a stamp (I guess thats why noone applied-- they cant afford to buy stamps). Can you spell " Lazy Asses"? I'm asking because that job got a greencard for an Indian dude ( and aaal his family).
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby IsThisRealLife » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 12:02:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kristen', 'W')orship the rich for they are the one's with he halo's over their heads.
I don't worship them, but do think us, the poor, do ourselves a disservice with our misguided votes and en masse discretionary spending.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby IsThisRealLife » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 12:20:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'I')f you and these guys are both right, consumers have $384 - $250 = $134 left for xmas.
Jesus had $0, so in the Xmas spirit, we should follow suit.
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Re: Unemployment benefits and tax breaks => 2/3 of US shoppe

Postby Keith_McClary » Fri 03 Dec 2010, 13:14:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', 'A') relative spent a few months and $1600 in advertisement money, to find a programmer with a masters degree who has 5 years of expierence in a certain area ( by far not that rare) that will work for about $80 K plus all bennies. Guess what-- all that effort was for 1 resume. From an UNDERQUALIFIED applicant. Unemployment my ass. People just cant get enough money for sitting their asses off dont they

Here's some AAPG info for geologists, BSc. I assume.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_code('', '2009 Geological Salary Survey
YEARS EXPER HIGH AVERAGE LOW
0-2 $ 99,800 $ 87,600 $ 70,000
3-5 153,900 105,600 68,000
6-9 147,000 121,700 91,000
10-14 160,700 123,500 102,500
15-19 211,500 150,000 96,000
20-24 270,400 180,000 96,500
25+ 600,000 186,800 100,000
')
Do MSc. programmers work for less?
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