[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', ' ')"Everyone move to the boonies" probably isn't a viable solution at this time....

[Ludi]

Kind of tough with no way of buying land, no jobs, etc...

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'K')ind of tough with no way of buying land, no jobs, etc...

[Ludi]

Sure, it could work if our society were significantly different, but as a means to transition to a significantly different way of life (permaculture), I'm not sure we're ready....

It's not like there's a bunch of wealthy guys out there setting up ecovillages for homeless unemployed people.

Pstarr posts about this a lot, how we can't change our society unless we change land ownership significantly, and that sure doesn't look like it's happening any time soon.

[Ibon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cloud9', '
')The single most important thing we can do is convince our fellow countrymen that the government cannot save us. If we are to be saved, we must save ourselves.

[Ludi]

I thought in the US the people are the government/state "of, by, and for the people" - that kind of thing.....

<<<<<took "social studies" but never "civics"

On the other hand, I agree with the idea "They" can't/won't save us." But to me "save ourselves" means not "paddle your own canoe" but rather, what can we do as communities to help each other? Even in a larger monkeysphere, what can we do as a society to help each other?

Man is not an island unto himself. In spite of what Ayn Rand says.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'B')ut also, the GOP is merely playing the word games of dialectics - they will not answer a question under any circumstances, they just dig in their heels and start yelling about something unrelated.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', '
')But your guys very much want to have a say in whether I'm allowed to own or carry a weapon.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'w')e all have tolerable shelter in abodes basically of our choosing

[Cloud9]

Are there any left wing gun owners? As for the uterus thing: I had an interesting conversation with one of my students. She absolutely refused to believe that there was a cost to child birth. When I told her my son’s after insurance expense was about $6,000, she asked why on earth would anyone pay for having a child when it was free. Either the system resets or the producers are going to sit down in the dirt and do nothing.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'W')hy is it only right-wing gun-owners who worry about the state taking their guns, but not left-wing gun-owners?

[Ludi]

Are there any left-wing gun-owners? You're kidding, right?

Ed Schultz, the dimmest left-winger on the air, is a super-duper-ultra gun owner. Hunts anything that moves, apparently.

My husband, who is about as far left as a person can go (atheist socialist animist pro-gay marriage) is a multiple gun-owner.

Most people on this message-board are gun-owners!

<<<<< pro gun ownership, but not for myself (I don't think mentally ill people should own guns)

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', ' ') Myself, I don't honestly care about it as a matter of law

[Cloud9]

Sweet, good to know the left is armed. Night all.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', 'w')e all have tolerable shelter in abodes basically of our choosing

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR', ' ') Myself, I don't honestly care about it as a matter of law

[Ludi]

Agent, I do not think you can empathize, as you do not have a part of your body the state might want to own.

You just can't see it the same way a woman does. No state has ever tried to own your testicles.

You probably can't understand what I mean when I say I personally do not ever see a "when life begins" moment in the life process. To me personally there is no such point - there is never a point when there is not life - the egg is alive, the sperm is alive, the zygote is alive. The question to me is when is that life a human being? Which gets down to difficult questions of what do we mean by "human being"? Is a sperm a human being? Is an egg a human being? Is a zygote a human being? Not being religious I have no answers for these questions which concern any other person besides myself. But I DO believe that an identifiably human person, a woman, should own all the parts of her body. No part of them should belong to the state or be subject to search and seizure by the state. Men would not stand for their testicles belonging to the state (sperm are living too) but they do not understand how a woman might feel about her uterus and what goes on in it with or without her consent.

[AgentR]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'A')gent, I do not think you can empathize, as you do not have a part of your body the state might want to own.

[Ludi]

I'm going to get off the reproductive rights discussion because it is more than political ( religious or spiritual). I'm not sure the gun issue is more than political. Maybe it is. But as I say, I NEVER see left-wing gun-owners fretting about the guvmint taking their guns. Maybe we should be worrying about it, I dunno. It certainly would never happen in Texas, even if we elected Bill White instead of Rick Perry!

<<<<surrounded by gun-owners, and not worried about it.

[vtsnowedin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'B')ut as I say, I NEVER see left-wing gun-owners fretting about the guvmint taking their guns. <<<<surrounded by gun-owners, and not worried about it.