[Outcast_Searcher]

With the unemployment SO much lower for college grads, then it certainly seems it must be worth SOMETHING.

If people would attend state schools, work part time and summers, and try not to pile up too much debt, as well as focus on careers that have some applicability in the real world, that would seem to be worth it.

(That is not to say it's guaranteed, and you should expect bailout funder in chief Obama to bail you out if you don't use common sense and don't get a good job).

[PrestonSturges]

Frank Zappa said something about not needing to go to college as long as he had a library card. Which is fine if you are a fully committed artist who is going to bang out new work every singe day.

But on the other hand, consider the novel "Jude the Obscure" by Thomas Hardy, which describes the torture of being self-educated. If you don't want the education, then don't look back.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '[')color=#FF0000]Stay on topic, please
Pops[/color]

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'A')s for the actual content of college, of course that is the classic question, is it not? They give you all sorts of information you never use, with the exception of showing off during Bar Trivia from time to time.

[PrestonSturges]

Rush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Beck didn't finish college, and they are all well adjusted, productive, well informed, wealthy people.

OK, wealthy anyway.

You got to give them that much, they are wealthy.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PrestonSturges', 'R')ush, Hannity, O'Reilly, and Beck didn't finish college, and they are all well adjusted, productive, well informed, wealthy people.

OK, wealthy anyway.

You got to give them that much, they are wealthy.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', ' ')I had a great time in college but it left me with a big debt and a pointless degree.

[MarkJ]

College was well worth the expense for all the medical professionals in our family. Good pay, good benefits, overtime, second job opportunities, private duty homecare gigs, skill set mobility, good human job networking, growth industry etc.

Non college grads often get screwed since college grads working their first jobs, second, third or seasonal jobs often compete for the same jobs. College grads can work jobs which don't require a college education, but non college grads can't work jobs that require a technical degree, college degree, certifications etc.

[pup55]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')ith the unemployment SO much lower for college grads, then it certainly seems it must be worth SOMETHING.

[Pops]

MarkJ makes a good point, but it's not only young people who have a problem, I have been involved with print graphics since I was a teenager and have been using a computer to do graphic design for over 15 years but I doubt I'd even qualify for an internship in government or big business because I have no degree.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pup55', 'C')an college equalize some of this? Yes, I believe it can. But part of this is not content-driven inasmuch as it is socialization-driven....you hang around a lot of college kids, and pretty soon you act and think in a certain way that is desirable in the workforce.

[Olaf]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', '[')url=http://blog.american.com/?source=patrick.net&p=19189#logo-n-tagline]If You Thought the Housing Bubble Was Bad…[/url] By Mark J. Perry
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'c')hart illustrates a much, much bigger bubble than the real estate bubble—the “higher education bubble”—based on an annual comparison of consumer prices, median new home prices, and the Consumer Price Index series for “College Tuition and Fees”

[Pretorian]

You can study for free in Europe. Now that is likely to be worth the investment. You enroll into a medical school at 14 with a GED, enroll into US residency at 20, open your practice at 23.
Anyways , if you waste your youth for "skills" (whichever they are) they are likely to pay off, if you do that for " knowledge" then you surely waste your time, if you can read that is.

[evilgenius]

It is interesting to take a look at the argument concerning the proper placement of types of people into the best sort of educational environment for them. Certain people should be in trade schools, not going to college. Other people could benefit from hybrid degrees that take only three years to complete, but don't help them to qualify for degrees beyond very much. That said, there is a lot of knocking of education for the sake of gaining knowledge and wisdom packed into much of the criticisms in this thread. Just because people who would better benefit from a trade or three year degree are often forced by societal pressure into the four year process does not mean that the four year process is flawed or demeaned in some way. It more likely points out how over administered the four year process has become. There is a lot more marketing and lobbying going on, in other words, for an increase in the obvious and previously accepted than for increases in what would better suit an increasing number of people.

Yeah, the push for practical knowledge that will more immediately allow a person to make a living is becoming increasingly important. What about aspiration, though? I'm certain that a lot of people who have four year degrees and beyond bemoan the forces that through cost increases and curriculum changes seem to be putting that beyond the reach of those who could benefit from latching hold of a degree track and not letting go. They bemoan it because having been through the process they can readily acknowledge what going to college did for their minds. Contrary to what many criticizing college seem to imply, no, you are not born with all of this knowledge in your head. No, college is not there to just confuse your better instincts. Yes, it turns out that education is a lot of work and that work is more involved than simple study. It goes to the heart of a person and brings change.

It may very well be that if a person thinks that what they learned in college is good for nothing better than a bar trivia contest, then maybe they should have gone to trade school.

[ian807]

Yes, it teaches you to think.

I know that sounds quaint, but as a person with a psychology degree who makes his living designing and writing software, I can tell you that from education you get:

1) Mental tools like math, symbolic logic, and critical thinking.

2) A base of facts, as opposed to the media and religiously based crud that passes for information in non-academic contexts.

3) A huge knowledge base of examples of what humans have done (history) and do (social anthropology) and what makes us tick (Psychobiology).

Taken together, this allows you to see patterns across different domains and manipulate information with remarkable efficiency and speed in comparison to someone of equal intelligence who doesn't have an education.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', ' ')I had a great time in college but it left me with a big debt and a pointless degree.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')Seems how you asked nicely my course of study was education.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')Seems how you asked nicely my course of study was education.

[patience]

My wife and I each have degrees, from which we learned very little of real usefulness, but they did obtain us both entry into our respective fields. That was a long time ago. Things are different now. Our two daughters each have degrees, also, neither of which gained them entry into the work they are doing, sort of like Tanada. One has degree in Chemistry, the other in Communications, but neither work in those fields. Times have changed. Today, I would not reccomend college as anything near to the Holy Grail of earning potential that it was said to be 40+ years ago.

Yes, you can learn things in college, or elsewhere, as pointed out in prior posts. Yes, for those relatively stable fields, like medicine and teaching, a degree is the ONLY way in, and can be expected to pay off. For those fields that are in a state of flux, as IT was for the past 10 years, and as alternative energy is still, there are other ways to gain entry at far less cost, and with a far more effective education.

The history of formal education is littered with producing too many, too few, or none or the needed types of graduates. The system tends to be at least 10 years behind the curve for supplying the correct numbers of personnel for any given field. This was exacerbated by the Boomer years, and has happened with teachers, engineers, MBA's and others. Now, the unemployment situation is creating another generation of lost graduates who can't find jobs, because the marketplace changed much faster than the Universities changed.

Yes, an education can teach a person to think, but does not do so on a reliable basis, as witness today's many unemployed graduates, deeply in debt, with no prospects for the immediate future. I just read that 80% of graduates move back home with Mom and Dad. This does not bode well for seeking a degree today, even less so on borrowed money.

[davep]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ian807', 'Y')es, it teaches you to think.

[Ludi]

It took me quite a while after university until I learned to think. And I still work hard at it every day. But I'm pretty slow.....