[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'I')'m not convinced the solutions to our problems are "technological." I often think they may be attitudinal - the primary solution to most of our problems (the "super-value concept") might be a recognition of the limits of the planet on which we live, a recognition which is not present in our culture, and is in fact blasphemy to the core ideas of our culture.

[efarmer]

Not sure about technology, but I am convinced that the correct tattoo if applied to enough people, will overcome the resource limits, gorging kudzu ape mentality,bullshit cover story mineral wars, and lead to the desperately required uplifting program material on television and within a short span, save humanity. Don't just sit there idly reading this, get yourself down to the tattoo joint and start the process of saving humanity.

[Ludi]

Pstarr, I don't entirely agree. If our attitudes have changed as a culture we would not be inhibited by advertising or media. If our attitudes as a society have changed we would be immune to those messages, they would be repulsive, not attractive.

I understand the difficult of wresting control from BAU/TPTB, however, if our attitudes have indeed changed, we would be in the process of obtaining that control (which we might indeed be as Xenophobe points out with Transition Towns, etc).

I guess I'm not doomy enough for Newfie, but too doomy for Xenophobe.

[Narz]

I'm also curious to hear doomer predictions of "peak science".

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'W')hen will Science peak? It's not showing the slightest sign of slowing down.

[davep]

Nice thread, thanks Carlhole for inspiring a bit of debate.

Now, I'm not sure if I'm a doomer or not. But I have a doomstead and arms (and heirloom seeds etc). Does this make me a moron?

I don't think so. Because while technology may find some way out of the current impasse, it is equally likely that technology may not. My position is merely one of pragmatism. I would like to think that something big will go from lab to commercial realisation, but I just don't know (and neither does anybody else here).

So, it may be wise to prepare for a not-best scenario.

And who knows? Maybe the science that will save us is based on understanding that nature is too complex to control absolutely. A sustainable approach may just do the job. I'm not sure if that's a singularity, but I'd like to think that humans coming to the realisation that nature is so vast and essential whilst also being almost infinitely adaptable is the kind of singularity we may need.

Who gives a shit if computers gain our intelligence and understanding? We need to gain that same empathy for the entity that created us. Maybe then we will have achieved the singularity.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'S')o, it may be wise to prepare for a not-best scenario.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'S')o, it may be wise to prepare for a not-best scenario.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'W')hen will Science peak? It's not showing the slightest sign of slowing down.

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'S')o, it may be wise to prepare for a not-best scenario.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'i')f oil were to disappear tomorrow the amount of "energy" available to be put to work on this planet would barely drop at all.

[Newfie]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'P')starr, I don't entirely agree. If our attitudes have changed as a culture we would not be inhibited by advertising or media. If our attitudes as a society have changed we would be immune to those messages, they would be repulsive, not attractive.

I understand the difficult of wresting control from BAU/TPTB, however, if our attitudes have indeed changed, we would be in the process of obtaining that control (which we might indeed be as Xenophobe points out with Transition Towns, etc).

I guess I'm not doomy enough for Newfie, but too doomy for Xenophobe.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Newfie', '
')You appear to have more faith in humanity than I do, that's all.

[Narz]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'i')f oil were to disappear tomorrow the amount of "energy" available to be put to work on this planet would barely drop at all.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Narz', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'i')f oil were to disappear tomorrow the amount of "energy" available to be put to work on this planet would barely drop at all.

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', 'i')f oil were to disappear tomorrow the amount of "energy" available to be put to work on this planet would barely drop at all.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Xenophobe', '
')Oh, certainly I am not the person to answer that question, I hardly represent humanity in the general sense. However, if I were to speculate, I imagine that humans would plug in whatever is easiest. Again. We tend to be predictable that way.

[Ludi]

Oh now, you know I'm not a vegan!

What do YOU think these other sources of energy equal to oil are that we can plug in tomorrow?