[Pops]

I’m recently moved from the upper San Joaquin valley, not far from PJ I’m sure. Here are a couple more indications of the trouble - as indicated by conditions in the Salad Bowl of America, that we’ll have in transitioning to localized agriculture, let alone anyone’s idea of sustainable Ag…

In the early days of agriculture in CA most of the land was used for ranching and growing winter wheat – there is no rain there in most of the growing season. After the reservoirs were built, the arid land with deep soils became very productive, and the era of local Ag started to die.

At first the only way to preserve fruit for transport was drying, which by removing the bulk and weight of the water is actually pretty efficient. The fruit was then shipped by rail. I remember the smell of sulfur while cutting peaches in a drying shed when I was a kid in the ‘70s.

The Union Pacific railroad developed the first ice-packed railcars in Roseville about 90 miles away, and eventually refrigerated cars to carry fresh produce to the east coast.

Of course there were canneries – huge canneries.



Today In Stockton, CA there is a company whose business model is packing and flying produce via airplane anywhere in the world – they are very successful. If you are not in the US you might check with the local grocer to see where your asparagus and fresh tomatoes come from before going tisk, tisk.

The drying sheds are all long gone, when was the last time you ate dried fruit?

The canneries are mostly gone since most people prefer fresh to canned, although there are still a few tomato canaries – gotta have catsup with those fries. Several years ago, one of the worlds largest canneries - and a big local employer, went bankrupt and closed down. The founder lived ½ mile from my house. There is nothing but almond orchards and vineyards for miles around now. Why buy yucky canned peaches when those yellowish-green rocks are available at the superwallmart year-round? The sign SAYS ‘peaches’ after all and no one now knows any different.

The surrounding counties also have great ag businesses: the home office of the largest egg producer west of the Rockies, the second largest chicken producer after Tyson (I think), the largest cheese plant in the world, etc. etc. The surrounding area produces fully 40% of the world’s almonds and boasts the world’s largest winery – the brands would be recognizable by most posters here. I know quite a bit about these businesses since from time to time they we're all my clients.

Of course as mentioned by previous posters, orchards and vineyards are usually heavily dosed with herbicides, fungicides and pesticides. Every single outlying municipal well in my old town was abandoned due to Ag chemical contamination. Don’t think about suing those guys – there is way too much money at stake.

The ground grows very little besides the trees and vines, consequently the organic matter is almost nil - the worst garden I ever had was in some of the worlds most productive soil – soil that had been in orchard for almost 100 years.

The point is and I mentioned this before, the main crops now are exported worldwide and very little goes to the local market – it’s produce is imported from Mexico, Florida or Brazil. The investments of the past are long gone and huge investments – and loans, are tied up in the new. Good almond orchards go for $10,000 - $20,000 an acre, or did a couple years ago – don’t even think about a 2-5 acre place. If it’s close in and has a house standing it could be worth millions. I sold an acre last year with a 100-year-old 1,200sf house for $360k in 2 weeks and it could be worth $500k today.

So again, don’t expect an overnight transformation to flushing your water closet to the local tomato farm, there is simply too much invested in the current system. Again, Americans pay roughly 9% of discretionary income on food – if you don’t know, that is a tiny percentage. There will be a huge increase in the cost of food of any kind long before that local farmer’s market gains much market share.

[Riverside]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'B')efore you all rush out to your local wastewater treatment plant to purchase sludge as a soil amendment, google personal and pharmaceutical care products. These chemicals are not destroyed in the biological processes used in treating sewage. USGS found these compounds in nearly every surface water body they tested. They are also finding them in groundwater (from septic systems). The long term effects of these chemicals are not well understood, but aberrations in sex ratios, low testosterone levels in males, etc indicate chronic effects at levels below those standard testing methods are able to detect.

[lorenzo]

Can't you ask that simpleminded and uneducated farmer who screwed up your field to go get a 101 in agriculture?
Then tell him to buy some cheap organic fertilizer (cattle caca) to spread it out on the field. He can have it for free. Hell, he will even get paid for it.
After one year your field should be up and running again, producing more than ever before.

(That would be the picture in my country, where we produce tons of chicken, pig and cattle sh!t. You can have all of it if you want it. We'll pay you to come and get it, in fact, we're willing to fill an entire oil tanker full of poo and send it to you).

[lawnchair]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'B')efore you all rush out to your local wastewater treatment plant to purchase sludge as a soil amendment, google personal and pharmaceutical care products. These chemicals are not destroyed in the biological processes used in treating sewage.

[MonteQuest]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', ' ')So it only stands to reason that Peak Oil is not going to be kind to the agricultural sector. We can’t keep doing what we are doing and pull yet another (technological) rabbit out of our hat whenever some problem comes up. As the energy supply gets harder to come by I would expect the whole food industry come unglued and return to some semblance of sanity.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ArimoDave', '
')
Query:

Anyone know of any research done on cancer risk to farm-workers?

It would seem to me that if there were a significant increase, and it could be directly linked to oil-based fertilizers then there might be an economic incentive to stop its use. A few successful law-suits (though it does make me ill that it would take law-suits), I think, would make it economically unfeasable to use oil-based fertilizers (pesticides too).

ArimoDave

[Ebyss]

Fantatstic post pea-jay, you can really see just how hard Agriculture is going to be hit when PO comes in full force. And yet still you have people who say "just throw a bunch of seeds down".
If your neighbour ever shrink wraps his farm again, I'd love to see a picture... it has to be the single most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pea-jay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ArimoDave', '
')
Query:

Anyone know of any research done on cancer risk to farm-workers?

It would seem to me that if there were a significant increase, and it could be directly linked to oil-based fertilizers then there might be an economic incentive to stop its use. A few successful law-suits (though it does make me ill that it would take law-suits), I think, would make it economically unfeasable to use oil-based fertilizers (pesticides too).

ArimoDave

[Ebyss]

You might not like them holmes, but they enable you to have cheap food.
2 million acres habitat loss? Brazil has lost over half it's rainforest so the US can have cheap dirty meat.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd i hate bloated american pigs just as much as scum illiterate shoe size iq {edited}, etc.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'B')efore you all rush out to your local wastewater treatment plant to purchase sludge as a soil amendment, google personal and pharmaceutical care products. These chemicals are not destroyed in the biological processes used in treating sewage. USGS found these compounds in nearly every surface water body they tested. They are also finding them in groundwater (from septic systems). The long term effects of these chemicals are not well understood, but aberrations in sex ratios, low testosterone levels in males, etc indicate chronic effects at levels below those standard testing methods are able to detect.

[holmes]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ebyss', 'Y')ou might not like them holmes, but they enable you to have cheap food.
2 million acres habitat loss? Brazil has lost over half it's rainforest so the US can have cheap dirty meat.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'a')nd i hate bloated american pigs just as much as scum illiterate shoe size iq{edited}, etc.

[Ebyss]

Lol.. that's some set of assumptions there. (A) I don't claim to be perfect. (B) I fully intend to grow my own food and live off my own land when I recieve planning permission to do so, I do not intend to do it illegally. (C) I was merely pointing out that to call someone "illiterate" whilst using poor spelling and grammar made you look somewhat hypocritical. I don't know whether you're highly educated or not, I can only base my opinions on the things you write. (D) Whether you grow your own food was not the point, the point is that the US needs these illegals to grow cheap food to feed it's population. I think it would be great if everyone grew their own food... unfortunately not everyone can afford their own land. It has nothing to do with education.

I agree that to illegally cross into another country's borders is wrong. Equally wrong is for any person in the US to employ them. As soon as they stop getting employment, they will stop coming. Help boycott the farmers who employ illegals. They are practically inviting them in. No wonder the government turns a blind eye... the economy wouldn't survive with out them. America needs cheap fuel and cheap food. This is just like addressing soil depletion by adding chemical fertilizer.. you don't address the root of the problem.

[pea-jay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'p')ea jay i dont want to be rude but dont threaten me. Like Ed Abbey once said about the illegals. I dont need them nor do i depend on the illegals . . . <SNIP>. . . well if the mexicans dont kill us all it will be the foreign mafias that are spreading out high and low. But you "FEELING" types love everybody. whoa is me.

[eric_b]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('holmes', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('highlander', 'B')efore you all rush out to your local wastewater treatment plant to purchase sludge as a soil amendment, google personal and pharmaceutical care products. These chemicals are not destroyed in the biological processes used in treating sewage. USGS found these compounds in nearly every surface water body they tested. They are also finding them in groundwater (from septic systems). The long term effects of these chemicals are not well understood, but aberrations in sex ratios, low testosterone levels in males, etc indicate chronic effects at levels below those standard testing methods are able to detect.

[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eric_b', ' ')increasingly faggotized
human males.

[pea-jay]

As requested, here is a picture of a shrink-wrapped field.

Most wrapping occurs for the application of Methyl Bromide, a fumigant that has the nasty side effect of killing stratospheric ozone in addition to nemotodes and other field critters.

Per the Montreal protocol, this agent is to be phased out. I will need to talk to my local farm bureau contact (whom I will be meeting with in the next few weeks) what else uses films.

Here is a description of Methyl Bromide at work

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')ver the last 40-50 years methyl bromide (CH3Br) has been used throughout the world to sterilize soils in preparation for planting various high-cash-value fruit and vegetable crops. Highly toxic, CH3Br is very effective in controlling a variety of soil-borne pests, such as nematodes, weeds and fungi. CH3Br has been an important component of agricultural systems in the U.S. and its phase-out is expected to cause financial hardship to agricultural producers. Recent economic assessments estimate that more than $1.5 billion in annual lost production would occur in the United States alone [NAPIAP, 1993; Ferguson and Padula, 1994].

In most commercial operations, CH3Br is applied from a tractor pulling two or more metal shanks that cut into the soil. CH3Br is injected into the soil at approximately 25 cm depth from nozzles on the backside of each shank. Simultaneously, the tractor lays down a 3.5 m wide sheet of 0.025 mm thick high-density polyethylene (HDPE) plastic film; burying one side and gluing the other side to the previous plastic sheet. This creates a series of panels down the field and a continuous cover over the field. Large amounts of CH3Br are applied at rates ranging from 200 to 400 kg/ha.

[retiredguy]

Regarding the question about the source of MetroGro/Milorganite. Not really sure. But in driving past the treatment plant where MetroGro is produced, it looks as if the source is a holding pond of general sewage sludge.

The fields where this stuff is injected produce mostly soy beans and corn. Most of these crops go to commercial entities. Guess this is not a nice thing to think about the next time one eats tofu.

[oowolf]

"Terrifying" read on ubiqiutous hormone-mimicking petrochemicals:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 13-5006350
We are SO skroooooed.

[FarmCat]

I was curious about Milorganite, so I went to their web site (milorganite.com). They have a link to their MSDS (material safety data sheet). I can't cut and paste it here because it's .pdf format, but here's a quote. "Milorganite is a fertilizer product made from various microbes used to digest sewerage sludge." Here's the link to the MSDS: http://www.milorganite.com/shared/docs/ ... e_msds.pdf

Now to talk about rejuvenating soil for a minute. It can be done, but not quickly. Importing topsoil may or may not be a big help; quality can vary tremendously depending on where it is coming from. It may not have much organic matter in it; it could be mostly clay or sand. Compost is much better, if you can get it. My city happens to offer it free to residents; they make it out of yard waste.

Adding organic matter is only the first step, though. It still takes time to build up the living community. For example, you won't find any worms in compost or topsoil. Actually, compost and topsoil are often sterilized before being sold in order to kill any weed seeds that may be in them. If you are seriously trying to rejuvenate dead soil, I recommend looking into biointensive farming methods. You can actually purchase biointensive sprays and innoculants that will get your beneficial microbial population started in a hurry. I am thankful to live less than 100 miles from the Michael Fields Agricultural Institute in SE Wisconsin, which is a major biointensive research and training center.

One last thing. For any folks out there who are considering buying some land to farm on, try to buy pastureland rather than cropland. Odds are the pasture has received very little in the way of fertilizers or pesticides.

[retiredguy]

I want to second what FarmCat said about compost. When I moved here 25 years ago, the soil in my backyard was mostly clay that contained very little organic matter. Plus, I suspect pesticides/herbicides were used liberally on the lawn. I began composting immediately. I use a two bin system, each bin being about seven feet square and four feet high. With bins this size, the active pile stays hot all winter.

I feed the pile with household and garden wastes. In the fall, I scrounge leaves from my neighbor's terraces after they rake them there for pickup. I've got a reputation for being the odd guy on the block who walks around with a tarp full of leaves on his back.

The key to composting is to have a large enough pile to get the job done plus enough carbon material (ie. leaves) to mix with the nitrogen (garbage) wastes.

After 25 years of agumentation, my garden soil is loamy full of worms and other living organisms. I intensively grow tomatoes using a technique I have perfected after a lot of trial and error. The tomatoes grow as hedges to 8-9 feet tall. I can what I can't use fresh.

Composting really does work, but it takes time and some physical effort. Unfortunately, a number of burbs around here have convenants that prevent it.