by entropyfails » Thu 19 May 2005, 09:51:04
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', '
')Good analogy. I'd like to do that with the posters in here.
See this blue marble? That's the outcome where U.S. gets paid back in spades for all its sins, and the government collapses, and Walmart dies, and suburbia ends, and we go back to the barter system, and fat people get back into shape, and the Indians get their land back, and Omar is out happily shooting people with his AK-47 at the riots, and the SUV-driving peak oil deniers are all getting their just desserts, drinking dog piss out of hubcabs, and mother nature fights back, and all the animals are safe again.
The other 100 red marbles, are the outcomes where none of this fantasy, utopian bullshit happens.
You often do this here. You take all the arguments that people make and roll them up into one big argument that ends up being pretty easy to debunk because no one has made the argument in the first place.
If you want to drill down into how many color marbles people want to put in the bag and how many of each, please do so. Ask them what percentage chance they think they will get their “desired” outcome. If they say 100%, I’ll agree with you. They have “true belief” and you cannot change their minds.
However returning to sustainability doesn’t require utopianism, just a change of human vision. These things happen all the time on a individual level. My “marble count” ends up being about half a percent for this outcome, probably less. However, I feel that the other 99 and one half marbles end in humans eating their environment and killing off their own support system. So what good do they do us?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('JohnDenver', 'M')ost people here are totally deluded -- blinded by their juvenile utopian fantasies. If we expand our scope a little, you'll find that most people outside of this forum find my "too good to be true" argument to be totally convincing.
Some here do take it to extremes. Some engage in utopianism. However that doesn’t completely preclude their theories as totally invalid, though some fall in that category as well. Most people have strong beliefs that things must continue on their current path. They have 100 piece logic as too. So the appeal to the popularity doesn’t work either.
Several claims have some validity to them and some evidence. Several do not. But lumping them all together because they don’t fit your idea of how humanity should continue so you can easily “debunk” them seems agenda motivated to me
')Yah, silly me. Civilization has been a constant, unchanging feature of human life for 10,000 years, and I'm the nut because I don't believe it's going to vanish in the next year or two.