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Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby rockdoc123 » Thu 29 May 2008, 01:11:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rior to that (prior to, say 1750), I don't know what life was like for black people worldwide (it might have sucked then too, I just don't know).


defiitely sucked if you happened to be an African caught up in the trans Saharan Slave trade which I believe went from around 700 Ad right through to the 1800's. We always think of African slaves in the context of the southern US or the Carribean but the Arabs and Indians were at this for several centuries prior. I read somewhere there were 10's of millions of slaves traded during this period.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby BigTex » Thu 29 May 2008, 01:17:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('rockdoc123', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'P')rior to that (prior to, say 1750), I don't know what life was like for black people worldwide (it might have sucked then too, I just don't know).


defiitely sucked if you happened to be an African caught up in the trans Saharan Slave trade which I believe went from around 700 Ad right through to the 1800's. We always think of African slaves in the context of the southern US or the Carribean but the Arabs and Indians were at this for several centuries prior. I read somewhere there were 10's of millions of slaves traded during this period.


So maybe the last 1300 years have sucked.

I wonder if it was good before that?
:)
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Ayoob » Thu 29 May 2008, 01:41:39

American blacks fared better under segregation. They owned local businesses and didn't have to compete with white businesses. They were more successful and had a sense of community that's gone today.

My experience with black people over the last couple of years is that blacks treat each other preferentially, so do whites, and it's ten times that much for asians and jews.

This melting pot thing doesn't work very well. I wish we could just break off a chunk of the US for the blacks and give them their own country to do with as they please. Black cops, judges, jails, and criminals. No more whitey holding them down. Black banks, businesses, manufacturing, shipping, farming, and fishing. Whatever they make for themselves they keep.

Why is that so bad?

I would 1000% prefer to live in an all-white area. Los Angeles completely cured me of any desire to live in a mixed area. It just sucks.

And apparently we need to give the Southwest to Mexico, just surrender the territory and pull back North. There is enormous resentment against the new colonists... and we just don't need to add to our population here in the US. Heading into a dieoff and you want to increase our population? Beyond stupid.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby big_rc » Thu 29 May 2008, 14:40:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'I')ndustrialization and the fossil fuel era have not been kind to black people, though the last 50 years have been better.

Prior to that (prior to, say 1750), I don't know what life was like for black people worldwide (it might have sucked then too, I just don't know).


I don't know about that. Black people like all people have benefited tremendously from the fossil fuel era. My father grew up picking cotton in Louisiana and him and his sisters remember happily when they didn't have to go pick cotton anymore because the machines came that replaced them. Fossil fuels have made everybody's life easier.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby big_rc » Thu 29 May 2008, 14:51:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'A')merican blacks fared better under segregation. They owned local businesses and didn't have to compete with white businesses. They were more successful and had a sense of community that's gone today.



Sorry Ayoob but that's not the case. Feel free to go talk to some older blacks about there experiences under segregation. I remember hearing my family talk about growing up in Jim Crow South. The stories they tell were absolutely terrifying and disheartening.

Sorry that you haven't met too many successful blacks but I can vouch they are out there in great numbers. Too bad most people fall back on the images of blacks portrayed on TV without actually getting out there and talking to people. I suggest going to a local black church or just talking to some black people that you know. It's not as difficult as it might seem.

Also to your point about seperating out the races. Sorry my man but black people and white people are stuck with each other. We are going to have to learn to live together or die seperately.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby vision-master » Thu 29 May 2008, 15:07:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'A')merican blacks fared better under segregation. They owned local businesses and didn't have to compete with white businesses. They were more successful and had a sense of community that's gone today.



Sorry Ayoob but that's not the case. Feel free to go talk to some older blacks about there experiences under segregation. I remember hearing my family talk about growing up in Jim Crow South. The stories they tell were absolutely terrifying and disheartening.

Sorry that you haven't met too many successful blacks but I can vouch they are out there in great numbers. Too bad most people fall back on the images of blacks portrayed on TV without actually getting out there and talking to people. I suggest going to a local black church or just talking to some black people that you know. It's not as difficult as it might seem.

Also to your point about seperating out the races. Sorry my man but black people and white people are stuck with each other. We are going to have to learn to live together or die seperately.


So 1st abolish minority preference in education and the workplace. Those "blackies" play the racism card to the max. It's down right sickening.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Ayoob » Thu 29 May 2008, 15:14:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', 'A')merican blacks fared better under segregation. They owned local businesses and didn't have to compete with white businesses. They were more successful and had a sense of community that's gone today.



Sorry Ayoob but that's not the case. Feel free to go talk to some older blacks about there experiences under segregation. I remember hearing my family talk about growing up in Jim Crow South. The stories they tell were absolutely terrifying and disheartening.

Sorry that you haven't met too many successful blacks but I can vouch they are out there in great numbers. Too bad most people fall back on the images of blacks portrayed on TV without actually getting out there and talking to people. I suggest going to a local black church or just talking to some black people that you know. It's not as difficult as it might seem.

Also to your point about seperating out the races. Sorry my man but black people and white people are stuck with each other. We are going to have to learn to live together or die seperately.


In one of history’s ironies, the injustices of Jim Crow exclusion created a climate that encouraged a flowering of black entrepreneurship and businesses. Shut out of white stores and theaters and ignored by white bankers, African-Americans showed a remarkable ability to marshal the limited capital available to them and establish a parallel economy. The overturning of legalized segregation in the 1950s and 1960s brought with it some unintended consequences. Hard pressed to compete with better-financed white stores and service providers, many black enterprises closed their doors. Of the six black banks in Richmond in 1925, only one exists today: St. Luke Penny Savings Bank, known now as Consolidated Bank & Trust. The black business districts that these banks once anchored and supported often fell victim to urban decay.

Although the end of Jim Crow has resulted in incalculable benefits, it also spelled the end of a business community that, along with churches and benevolent societies, helped bring African-Americans through a bleak period.

http://www.virginiabusiness.com/edit/ma ... back.shtml

I probably know more black people than you do, bud. I've worked in black neighborhoods, in daily and very intimate contact with black people for very long shifts. You'd be amazed. There's plenty of nice black people, and I've spent time in the most successful black neighborhood in North America. Ladera Heights. It's pretty nice! I'm not exactly welcome there, but my presence is tolerated while I work.

I'm not one of those people that feels the way I do out of ignorance. It's out of experience.

We may be stuck with each other... but you know the truth. White people without black people is Europe, black people without white people is Africa.

Anyway, I think it's pretty much time for me to step out of this whole debate. I'm going to dump this account pretty soon and all the other message board accounts I have. I've said a lot of shitty things over the years under this name and don't really want to be connected to it anymore.

Black people haven't done very well competing with white people in the US. Colleges and businesses have mandatory minimums in recruiting black candidates, who don't seem to do very well in school, and then don't do as well in the business world. There's a controversy about lawyers and hiring a certain amount of black lawyers, who then don't perform as well as their cohort.

The asians do very well in competition with whites, though. There are no minimums for asians in hiring and in school acceptance, and asians seem to do fine.

As competition gets more fierce, what do you think is going to happen to black people?

It's just like seahorse's bear story. Two hikers are out in the woods and spot a bear. One hiker drops his pack and swaps out his boots for running shoes. The other hiker says, "What are you doing? You're not going to outrun the bear." The running-shoe hiker replies, "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you."

So. Time will tell.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby big_rc » Thu 29 May 2008, 15:36:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', '
')I probably know more black people than you do, bud. I've worked in black neighborhoods, in daily and very intimate contact with black people for very long shifts. You'd be amazed. There's plenty of nice black people, and I've spent time in the most successful black neighborhood in North America. Ladera Heights. It's pretty nice! I'm not exactly welcome there, but my presence is tolerated while I work.

I'm not one of those people that feels the way I do out of ignorance. It's out of experience.

We may be stuck with each other... but you know the truth. White people without black people is Europe, black people without white people is Africa.



Interesting. Thanks for sharing that. I always find it interesting to hear other peoples' opinions even if I don't agree. Its obvious that our experiences have been totally different. Also I would probably bet that you are a bit older than me (probably my father's age).

At any rate, this my man is America not Europe, not Africa. We are in this big mess of a country together. We are going to have to make it together and come through this Peak Oil thing together. Black people and white people in this country are intertwined in way it would be impossible to untangle now. There is no turning back. We can only go forward.
Simon's Law: Everything put together falls apart sooner or later.

I don't think of all the misery, but of all the beauty that still remains.--Anne Frank
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Pretorian » Sat 31 May 2008, 02:38:12

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pretorian', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ayoob', '
')Why don't you sell us all on the benefits that black people bring to a community of non-blacks?


Big-rc, can you answer this simple question? What benefit do black people bring to the community of non-blacks? What is that magic ability of black people without which white people will perish, as you said before? I hope it wasn't too complicated question, let me know if i need to rephrase it.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', ' ') We are going to have to learn to live together or die seperately.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby seldom_seen » Sat 31 May 2008, 02:48:00

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('big_rc', 'A')t any rate, this my man is America not Europe, not Africa. We are in this big mess of a country together. We are going to have to make it together and come through this Peak Oil thing together. Black people and white people in this country are intertwined in way it would be impossible to untangle now. There is no turning back. We can only go forward.

Well this is not going to sound PC, as I'm not much of a PC guy. The way I see it, the brothers, the pale face honkies and the injuns need to stand together. That's what this country is made of. Whitey, negros and red men.

We can't afford to offload the overpopulation from latin america, asia and india anymore. It's the numbers, too many, too much for too long. They showed up too late in the game and they need to go home.

White bread, home boy, and Tonto have roots in this country. I say we stick together.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Ayoob » Sat 31 May 2008, 03:39:35

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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby socrates1fan » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 19:15:50

Utterly no offense.
I am European-descent and I am lower class and live in a lower class older neighborhood almost completely occupied by lower class Europeans.
Regardless of our ethnicity we Americans and need to work together to solve this crisis and remove racism on all sides so that we have the chance to progress.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Farknight » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 19:30:34

IMHO all humans will suffer from an actual collapse of civilization. The melanin content of ones dermal cells to the contrary, this is a problem on a human scale. The social-economic BS that has permitted human segregation based on skin is basically nothing more than tribalism. Tribes have always competed for limited resources and distrusted all other tribes, race was unimportant until relatively recently in modern human history. And as was pointed out earlier, we are all Africans as that is where all humans originated.

Famine, violence, pain and suffering will affect all without mercy if TSHTF in a big way, be certain of this fact. From what I have seen, read and studied of human history we are collectively a violent predatory specifies the strives for personal survival at all costs. This biological imperative virtually guarantees suffering. My hope is that a small portion of humanity, the enlightened few, will move beyond the mess to form a resilient new civilization in harmony with each other and the earth. Wishful thinking I know but one can dream
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 19:45:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nd as was pointed out earlier, we are all Africans as that is where all humans originated.


I disagree. Well maybe the earliest humanoids "types" came from Africa, but not civilized man. Great civilizations sprouted very quickly and not by evolution of millions-of-years. Something else has been at play. Ideas?
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 19:55:17

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', 'G')reat civilizations sprouted very quickly and not by evolution of millions-of-years. Something else has been at play. Ideas?


Once agriculture was developed, the behaviors and memes of civilization fed into each other very quickly, encouraging, supporting, and building complexity.

Here's yet another of those essays I keep spamming:

http://anthropik.com/2005/10/thesis-13- ... omplexity/

Because all resources are geared toward growth and complexity, the rise of civilizations seems almost miraculously fast.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby vision-master » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 20:08:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')nce agriculture was developed, the behaviors and memes of civilization fed into each other very quickly, encouraging, supporting, and building complexity.


What about language, math and astronomy? OR this?
Image

Image

How did they cut and move into place stones as large as 12'x14'x62' 6,000 years ago. :razz:
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Ludi » Fri 06 Jun 2008, 20:09:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')
How did they cut and move into place stones as large as 12'x14'x62' 6,000 years ago.


Sheer stubborness.
:)
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Pretorian » Sat 07 Jun 2008, 01:54:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'B')lack people have survived for longer than white people; after all, whites are descended from blacks who left Africa to populate the world.

Did you come up to this conclusion yourself? You have a very vivid imagination then, perhaps you should write a book or two.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Kingcoal', 'A')ll humans living today can be traced back to a tribe that lived in Ethiopia 200K years ago.


And surprisingly enough, even today, 200 000 years later, most tribes of Etiopia aren't Negroid. Makes me wonder what do you mean by "black people'' ? People born in Africa? People with the skin darker than white? How much darker? Negroids? Capoids? Austaloids? Negritos/Negrillos? All of the above?

Abraham Lincoln:
'There is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favour of having the superior position assigned to the white race'
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby Alcassin » Sat 07 Jun 2008, 07:23:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')I disagree. Well maybe the earliest humanoids "types" came from Africa, but not civilized man. Great civilizations sprouted very quickly and not by evolution of millions-of-years. Something else has been at play. Ideas?


Image

Egypt was the second (after Babilon) great civilization in human history, apparently it is in Africa.
Peak oil is only an indication and a premise of limits to growth on a finite planet.
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Re: Peak Oil - An African American Perspective

Unread postby vision-master » Sat 07 Jun 2008, 08:11:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Alcassin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '
')I disagree. Well maybe the earliest humanoids "types" came from Africa, but not civilized man. Great civilizations sprouted very quickly and not by evolution of millions-of-years. Something else has been at play. Ideas?


Image

Egypt was the second (after Babilon) great civilization in human history, apparently it is in Africa.


Egyptians
Image

Africans :razz:
Image
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