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Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 05 Jan 2009, 18:40:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '
')The rate of this energy loss ("gravitational damping") can be measured, and since it depends on the speed of gravity, comparing the measured values to theory shows that the speed of gravity is equal to the speed of light to within 1%. []
14


This is what happens when you use 20 year old College Physics memory based on a 30 year old textbook instead of looking to see if things have changed due to more recent experimental data SIGH.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Aaron » Mon 05 Jan 2009, 21:13:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')his is what happens when you use 20 year old College Physics memory based on a 30 year old textbook instead of looking to see if things have changed due to more recent experimental data SIGH.

No... this is what you get when you Google the wiki for the speed of gravity.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Tanada » Mon 05 Jan 2009, 21:20:09

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')his is what happens when you use 20 year old College Physics memory based on a 30 year old textbook instead of looking to see if things have changed due to more recent experimental data SIGH.
No... this is what you get when you Google the wiki for the speed of gravity.

Does Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mia Maxima Culpa work better? I was expressing my remorse in using memory and old knowledge vs checking for new knowledge before posting my first answer.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Daculling » Mon 05 Jan 2009, 22:24:38

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')Does Mea Culpa, Mea Culpa, Mia Maxima Culpa work better? I was expressing my remorse in using memory and old knowledge vs checking for new knowledge before posting my first answer.


Time dilation? Sure, the effect of gravity instantaneous from the observers point of view.

Wiki

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ') * The speed of light in a locale is always equal to c according to the observer who is there. The stationary observer's perspective corresponds to the local proper time. Every infinitesimal region of space time may have its own proper time that corresponds to the gravitational time dilation there, where electromagnetic radiation and matter may be equally affected, since they are made of the same essence (as shown in many tests involving the famous equation E = mc2). Such regions are significant whether or not they are occupied by an observer. A time delay is measured for signals that bend near the sun, headed towards Venus, and bounce back to earth along more or less a similar path. There is no violation of the speed of light in this sense, as long as an observer is forced to observe only the photons which intercept the observing faculties and not the ones that go passing by in the depths of more (or even less) gravitational time dilation.

If a distant observer is able to track the light in a remote, distant locale which intercepts a time dilated observer nearer to a more massive body, he sees that both the distant light and that distant time dilated observer have a slower proper time clock than other light which is coming nearby him, which intercept him, at c, like all other light he really can observe. When the other, distant light intercepts the distant observer, it will come at c from the distant observer's perspective.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Aaron » Mon 05 Jan 2009, 22:24:52

I stand culpa'ed
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby angrybill » Tue 06 Jan 2009, 08:39:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('angrybill', 'T')he 13.7billion limited is an interesting point and all this space and time stuff is bafflingly amazing. God spoke the universe(s) into existance. ... I think the theory is the universe is flat and expanding with no known boundaries but who really knows.

Hi again, "Deep thoughts with Jack Handey"...
"If the Universe started with a Big Bang does than mean we are dead center because all the edges are equidistant from us?"

No, not necessarily. The closest light traveled toward us is 13.7B c years, so each and every day from this moment onward we are to see 669,600,000 miles further and that's 5.8696^12 miles further into space that we can see each year deeper into space.

"Or does it mean when you see out 13.5 Billion light years the image is curving through space time and showing you the view looking back in towards yourself?"

We know light does appear to curve in the vacuum of space and absolutely curve, slow, and even stop outside of space; but I'm thinking more around about this one all I see is more space.

"Or does it mean there was no Big Bang; the Universe was created all at once 13.5 Billion years ago and is falling away from itself at an increasing rate as we watch?"
Yes! I agree. The more red a galaxy the further away and faster that galaxy is moving always from us.

My belief as of now is nothing we know of for sure can travel faster than c, other than theories and rumors. My theory is space itself is expanding outward faster than the speed of light but until is can be proven then it's just another theory/guess.

What I like is this word and verse that was dropped in my lap just yesterday, that specific passage. Any scholars out there who can translate this exactly from the original Koine Greek? Isaiah 40:22
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth,
and its people are like grasshoppers.
He stretches out the heavens like a canopy,
and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

I wonder what the other angrybill's and Tanaka's think in the string theory of multiple universes. This has been deep thoughts with ...space and time travel through black holes and string paths. Everything is the same, everywhere in the universe.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby TITAN » Tue 06 Jan 2009, 16:13:39

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cloudysky', 'i')ts all a farce The universe was created 6000 years ago, and the light was created simultaneously with that, now that is power. ... There is one powerful creative God there that can speak and it is. ... or you can be like the astronomers and ignore this post, call me names and come up withb orther garbage

lol. did you learn that in bible school? because we all know you didn't attend any other school much past kindergarten.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 08 Jan 2009, 01:39:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cloudysky', 'T')he view at 14 billion years shows many galaxies that look just like ours.
at 10 billion years the galaxies look like ours. ... there is no obvious development of the universe for 15 billion years.

Wrongo, the early galaxies are markedly different, you don't have to be a Ph.D. to see that spiral galaxies dominate today but spherical galaxies were more common 13 GY ago in the Hubble pix. Also there were giant stars that lasted only a few MY and blew up. This spread the nuclear reaction products into space where they were incorporated into other stars, etc. That is how there came to be elements other than hydrogen and helium, otherwise you would only be a puff of noxious gas ... oh, wait ... .
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cloudysky', ' ')Now here is the crux. are you ready for this? Stars do no last for 15 billion years....
As I said, they blow up and the resulting gases coalesce to form new stars. Sort of like how plants die and decay, and their decay products fertilize new plants.

Of course it is easier to say that God did everything, saves doing any thinking.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cloudysky', 'T')here was no big bang.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Thu 08 Jan 2009, 01:43:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Aaron', '[')url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_gravity#cite_note-13]14[/url]
The encyclopedia where any idiot can write crap, just like ... another website where any idiot can write crap.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby kpeavey » Thu 08 Jan 2009, 05:55:52

Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

rumors,
fear and panic
dad's belt
a falling infant
someone moving to save said infant
confiscatory taxes
childhood
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Pretorian » Thu 08 Jan 2009, 06:23:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cloudysky', 'T')here was no big bang. ... The view at 14 billion years shows many galaxies that look just like ours.
Hubble disproves any big bang you can come up with because whatever theory you invent, all yo have to do is look half that far and it would blow that theory out of the water
because stars dont last 15 billion years....
or you can be like the astronomers and ignore this post, call me names and come up withb orther garbage

I've heard there is a magic bible word ( something ending with --ia--?? ) which makes the reader to scroll down a post like this. Why haven't you used it?
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 09 Jan 2009, 00:32:01

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')Well here is a cosmological puzzle for you Bill. With the Hubble Space Telescope we have looked as far as we can into space in all directions. In every direction we look we can see light around 13.5 Billion years old. IOW the furthest we can see is 13.5 ly, but we can see that distance in all directions.

If the Universe started with a Big Bang does than mean we are dead center cause all the edges are equidistant from us?

This can be understood by the Raisin bread analogy

We are not in the center, it looks that way from any raisin.
The oldest light does not represent the "edge", just how far it could travel since the BB. Someone a billion LY away would see a billion LY further in their direction, but less in our direction.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby Keith_McClary » Fri 09 Jan 2009, 00:41:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('kpeavey', 'O')k, what is faster than the speed of light
rumors,
fear and panic
dad's belt
a falling infant
someone moving to save said infant
confiscatory taxes
childhood

A bankster wiring bailout loot to the Cayman Islands would be close. If you add in the speed of disappearance of the paper trail it might put you over lightspeed.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby angrybill » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 18:37:13

"And God said, Let there be light: and there was light."

Lmit to see beyond 13.7B light years in all directions.
Anyone know the exact day, month, year, that this distance was measured, and maybe at which later date realized we could not see beyond 13.7B c?
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby angrybill » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 18:50:31

Also, there must be something beyond the observable limit into space. We just haven’t yet figured out a way to see beyond 13.7B light years yet. Think of it this way. If the sun shined 24 hours a day, every day for a large portion of your life and you have only to see light when looking upward into, light. Light is all you can see and you have not awareness of the Universe beyond your observable limit until something changes or you create a mechanism to see beyond that observable limit of light. There must exist something beyond the 13.7B limit and one someone will discover what that something is.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby kpeavey » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 19:01:21

c

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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby emailking » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 20:36:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('angrybill', 'A')lso, there must be something beyond the observable limit into space. We just haven’t yet figured out a way to see beyond 13.7B light years yet. Think of it this way. If the sun shined 24 hours a day, every day for a large portion of your life and you have only to see light when looking upward into, light. Light is all you can see and you have not awareness of the Universe beyond your observable limit until something changes or you create a mechanism to see beyond that observable limit of light. There must exist something beyond the 13.7B limit and one someone will discover what that something is.


No one will "discover" what it is while still hidden. It opens itself up to theoretical observation at a rate of 1 light year per year.

What's beyond the observable horizon? Most likely more of the same. There's no reason to believe otherwise. All evidence shows the Big bang was fairly homogeneous in the observable reason and there's no compelling reason to believe it would be in the non-observable regions.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby emailking » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 20:38:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'I')s gravity faster than light?
In theory yes gravity is faster than light because gravirty is a dent in the curvature of space time whereas light is a wavicle that travles through spacetime. ...

Gravity is not faster than light (in vacuum). This would violate causality if true. If general relativity is correct speed of gravity = speed of light
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby emailking » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 20:45:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'W')ell here is a cosmological puzzle for you Bill. With the Hubble Space Telescope we have looked as far as we can into space in all directions. In every direction we look we can see light around 13.5 Billion years old. IOW the furthest we can see is 13.5 ly, but we can see that distance in all directions.
If the Universe started with a Big Bang does than mean we are dead center cause all the edges are equidistant from us?

No. There are no "edges." The big bang entailed the creation of space of time. Everywhere in the universe will notice things expanding outward from them with a horizon at 13.7 billion light years in all directions.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'O')r does it mean when you see out 13.5 Billion light years the image is curving through space time and showing you the view looking back in towards yourself?

In theory the universe could be "closed" such that a straight path would curve back on itself. However, if this is true on our universe, the size is much larger than the 13.7 billion light years we can see.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'O')r does it mean there was no Big Bang, the Universe was created all at once 13.5 Billion years ago and is falling away from itself at an increasing rate as we watch?

There was certainly a Big Bang as we can still hear its echo all around us. The rate of expansion is indeed increasing.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'H')ard to beleive our Sol is so close to the age of the whole Universe.

? Sun is 5 billion years old. It's the same order as 13.7 billion years. Still less than half the age though. Matter of opinion granted.
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Re: Ok, what is faster than the speed of light

Unread postby emailking » Sun 11 Jan 2009, 20:50:36

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '
')
X-ray photons like all other photons travle at light speed, but contrary to popular knowledge light speed changes depending on what the light is passing through. Pure vacuum is fastest of course, but intersteller dust and gas slow the light we see and the denser the medium the greater the slowing effect. Air is more than space, water is more than air, glass is more than water (for the same thickness).


While true of course, this is a wave phenomenon and not indicative of the structure of space time. (e.g. you can outrun light in a given medium, but cannot go faster than the speed of light in vacuum regardless of medium.)

On the other hand, the speed of light in vacuum can vary depending on the observer, if gravity is involved. For example, light trying to escape from near a black hole is slowed down as far as someone far away is concerned. (this is because time runs slower in a gravitational field.) However, someone right next to that light will not noticed anything out of the ordinary, it will still travel at 3X10^8 m/s.
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