[timbo]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '.')..No one will nuke the other...

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sjn', '.')..there will always be resistance to ideas that challenge the dominant paradigm...

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vetusfirma', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', 'T')he only dieoff I see in the world due to PO is in 3rd and 2nd world countries.

[socrates1fan]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timbo', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '.')..No one will nuke the other...

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', 'I') they have their own food, maybe they can preserve it, eat it, or sell it at a farmer's market.

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('timbo', 'B')ut I still get some resistance on it meaning Global War. I don't want a war but if history is anything to go by it will happen. My only uncertainity is how many nukes get traded.

[allenwrench]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('muon', 'I') haven't tried talking to anyone in real life, just trying to be supportive of lower energy type things that anyone comes up with. Online I've noticed a lot of opposition...

One person said it's the oil companies fleecing people, there's loads of oil, it gets made in the earth and the oil fields refill themselves. Others who were more informed about oil said that the refineries weren't working at full capacity (USA) due to not enough demand, and that Saudi has lots of wells capped (whatever the right terminology is) and they could uncap those if it was a supply/demand issue. That was actually good because they were open to discussion, so I asked them if they knew the year of peak oil discoveries and they were surprised at the answer. I was also able to point someone in the direction of numbers of how much more oil the USA uses than other countries, they didn't believe me but I think they did want to look it up to see if I was right or not.

I read an oil thread in a forum yesterday and someone said that the Bakken formation has loads of oil in it, but they're not drilling there yet. In response someone else said yes, there's loads of oil shale too! Someone else said that they read oil is made deep in the earth from helium and moves upwards to where we find it, so we'll never run out, they even provided a link to a website saying this.

[VMarcHart]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', 'I') still get resistance. I tell the neighbor the oil is drying up -- she says no its not. I lecture my wife about peak oil. Her stockbroker lady friend says "it's only a theory". PO is a dream buster once it sinks in so people try to avoid accepting it unless absolutely necessary. I just tell people to Google PO and study it themselves.

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('muon', 'I') haven't tried talking to anyone in real life, just trying to be supportive of lower energy type things that anyone comes up with. Online I've noticed a lot of opposition...

One person said it's the oil companies fleecing people, there's loads of oil, it gets made in the earth and the oil fields refill themselves. Others who were more informed about oil said that the refineries weren't working at full capacity (USA) due to not enough demand, and that Saudi has lots of wells capped (whatever the right terminology is) and they could uncap those if it was a supply/demand issue. That was actually good because they were open to discussion, so I asked them if they knew the year of peak oil discoveries and they were surprised at the answer. I was also able to point someone in the direction of numbers of how much more oil the USA uses than other countries, they didn't believe me but I think they did want to look it up to see if I was right or not.

I read an oil thread in a forum yesterday and someone said that the Bakken formation has loads of oil in it, but they're not drilling there yet. In response someone else said yes, there's loads of oil shale too! Someone else said that they read oil is made deep in the earth from helium and moves upwards to where we find it, so we'll never run out, they even provided a link to a website saying this.

[Heineken]

For the first time, I have heard some statements on the nightly TV news to the effect that gasoline will never be cheap again. It happened again on tonight's nightly national news---I can't remember which network. I think in the same show they mentioned that roads are going to deteriorate because they're made of oil and are laid down by machines burning diesel.

I view this as a major change in the mass awareness. Definitely a crumbling of the standard pattern, which has always been that the current problem is just part of a natural cycle and prices will get cheap again.

The nightly network news shows are an interesting barometer. For about four years I boycotted them to avoid the Bush/Iraq lie fest. About a year ago I started tuning in again, and was startled by the change in tone. Still a lot of propaganda, of course. But some of the segments are fairly alarming---at least, until they get into the soft-core, non-news they insist on padding each broadcast with (along with those mountains of vulgar drug commercials).

Right now the gloomfest on parts of some of the news broadcasts rivals our own stuff here. This is a sign of how historically serious our predicament is.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')People with nukes realize if they attack other countries with nukes that country will try and take them down with them.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('allenwrench', '
')Depends on who has their finger on the button...and how disgusted they get with a post carbon world. They may say f...it.

Not worried about the US doing it, but many nukes are in the hands of unstable countries.

[mrobert]

It took me some time to accept and understand PO, and I am a person who is aware about issues around me.

Not to mention, it was 13 years ago when I got a bunch of books from the local library to write a comprehensive essay on polution and it's impact on our future, and won a large contest with it. It's when I first learned that how we live is not good. At the same contest I had to discuss about alternatives to oil and other natural resource based energies.

I still see over 50% of the people around me, considering the government as being Santa Clause who should just give out money for any "issue".

Don't expect the average person to "get it" easily.
It wasn't easy for me, to rethink my entire future and life.

[bodigami]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('mos6507', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('socrates1fan', '
')People with nukes realize if they attack other countries with nukes that country will try and take them down with them.

[turner]

I couldn't agree with you more mroberts. I was introduced to oil depletion by my parents when I was a teenager and I am now 44. I guess because I couldn't see it manifesting around me I ignored it for a long time. It's only fairly recently that I've opened up my mind to it again and still waver somewhat between doom and denial.

The easy availability of info on the internet has helped enormously to gain a better picture of what is going on. However, you have got to know to look and it is only when the mainstream press start to report the oil situation that people will investigate further. I think that is starting to happen a bit, but probably not seriously enough to get any meaningful change. I'm still not sure if that is good or bad. If we can't do anything because it is too late then there is no point knowing. If we can make changes then the quicker everyone gets it the better.

[mrobert]

@turner. We are not technically doomed. We still have plenty of resources and knowledge to change everything. Except it won't happen. 75% of people would like the "others" to do something so that they can keep up what they are doing.

It will pretty much end up in : ACT or VANISH.

[graham]

I'll have to agree with sjn. The people in the u.k. that i've explained the situation to, seem likely to accept it. Though i'd say its only educated people that initially understand the implications of PO. For instance my- graphic illustration lecturer completely understood all of the ramifications after I only gave the basic technical underpinnings of Hubberts peak.

Maybee this is down to the general British mindset of no B.S. pragmatism, as opposed to (in general) American's idealistic optimism?

[mrobert]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('graham', 'I')'ll have to agree with sjn. The people in the u.k. that i've explained the situation to, seem likely to accept it. Though i'd say its only educated people that initially understand the implications of PO. For instance my- graphic illustration lecturer completely understood all of the ramifications after I only gave the basic technical underpinnings of Hubberts peak.

Maybee this is down to the general British mindset of no B.S. pragmatism, as opposed to (in general) American's idealistic optimism?

[graham]

Any Americans, please don't take my generalisation of you as idealistic optimists (that's not my experience on this site) personally! Brits are usually extremely cynical.

[watermelonpunch]

Well, I think there's resistance to the scope of the problem.

But even the people I know (friends & family) who are dyed in the wool right-wingish types, who believe the oil supply is either infinite, or that the depletion is many decades away... even they say that fuel prices at the gas pumps will never go back down to what they were. Even if their stated reason for that is, "prices always go up, they don't go back down"... They may not understand why, but they recognize that the future isn't bright regarding fuel prices.
And some of those people even fully recognize that employers aren't going to be handing out raises to match up to the added fuel expenses.

But even those people, I don't think, see the big picture of the problem, and the implications for society at large.
Like that it's not just going to be hard for a lot of people... But that it's going to effect everyone eventually, and significantly.

I think there's still resistance at least in the sense of that denial system that makes people think, "That will never happen to me."