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New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby SteinarN » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 17:06:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SteinarN', 'M')arkJ, have you ever been driving a modern diesel?


The majority of our construction equipment, heavy trucks, tankers, heating oil delivery trucks, propane delivery trucks and service fleet vehicles (GM & Dodge Sprinter vans) are diesels.


I ment cars, not light or heavy trucks.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 17:15:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SteinarN', 'M')arkJ, have you ever been driving a modern diesel?


The majority of our construction equipment, heavy trucks, tankers, heating oil delivery trucks, propane delivery trucks and service fleet vehicles (GM & Dodge Sprinter vans) are diesels.


That seems odd, most of the Propane delivery trucks I have seen here in MI are propane burners, keeps things simpler for the company and all that. They do have a small liquid fuel tank in case they need to go somewhere on regular fuel, but burn mostly propane.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby yesplease » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 17:53:14

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')hat seems odd, most of the Propane delivery trucks I have seen here in MI are propane burners, keeps things simpler for the company and all that. They do have a small liquid fuel tank in case they need to go somewhere on regular fuel, but burn mostly propane.
Diesels can run on propane/NG.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 17:56:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')hat seems odd, most of the Propane delivery trucks I have seen here in MI are propane burners, keeps things simpler for the company and all that. They do have a small liquid fuel tank in case they need to go somewhere on regular fuel, but burn mostly propane.
Diesels can run on propane/NG.


I know some diesels add propane to the fuel mix to boost preformance but I don't know of any diesel engine that can run on straight Propane, the stuff has a high Octane low Cetane rating just like gasoline.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby yesplease » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 17:57:54

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', 'T')he Urban Cycle test results of the Volkswagen Jetta TDI are pretty close to that of the EPA numbers. The Extra Urban results are generally the numbers that are substantially higher in comparison to EPA and real world results. (Excluding Volkswagen fanatics, diesel fanatics, conservative drivers, hyper-milers, paid testers etc)
Even the EPA equivalent for extra-urban, highway, tends to be higher than what's posted FWIW. Barring high speed runs on the autobahn it seems that in general highway mileage tends to be understated.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby yesplease » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 18:03:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')hat seems odd, most of the Propane delivery trucks I have seen here in MI are propane burners, keeps things simpler for the company and all that. They do have a small liquid fuel tank in case they need to go somewhere on regular fuel, but burn mostly propane.
Diesels can run on propane/NG.
I know some diesels add propane to the fuel mix to boost preformance but I don't know of any diesel engine that can run on straight Propane, the stuff has a high Octane low Cetane rating just like gasoline.
The rub is that they aren't CI after the retrofit but still diesel engines. Go figure... :lol: And naturally fumigation like you mentioned, although depending on the app the amount of diesel needed can relatively small since there's only a small amount injected to kick off combustion.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby Tanada » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 18:07:48

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('yesplease', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'T')hat seems odd, most of the Propane delivery trucks I have seen here in MI are propane burners, keeps things simpler for the company and all that. They do have a small liquid fuel tank in case they need to go somewhere on regular fuel, but burn mostly propane.
Diesels can run on propane/NG.
I know some diesels add propane to the fuel mix to boost preformance but I don't know of any diesel engine that can run on straight Propane, the stuff has a high Octane low Cetane rating just like gasoline.
The rub is that they aren't CI after the retrofit but still diesel engines. Go figure... :lol: And naturally fumigation like you mentioned.


How in the world can you call something a diesel if it doesn't use CI? I assume from that, these conversions you refer to use SI like any standard Propane converted gasoline engine? If they still have a diesel level of compression the Propane being high octane will give them better milage than a low octane gasoline engine would.

Any links?, this offshoot is new territory for me.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby yesplease » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 18:19:09

It's one of the regulatory/semantic deals based on what I've read. Something that's still technically a diesel engine, even though it's been converted to natural gas. I dunno why offhand but maybe it's the same reason why drivers in CA or other states w/ smog would drop a gasoline engine in a vehicle registered as a diesel.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Wikipedia', 'I')t should also be noted that most major manufacturers of medium speed engines make natural gas fueled versions of their diesel cycle engines, which in fact operate on the Otto cycle, and require spark ignition, typically provided with a spark plug.

I imagine that a lower compression diesel could have to glow plugs removed/spark plugs installed, a mesh/block heater installed for startup, and a TBI installed w/ a second tank for something high octane (E100/etc), and be a SI/CI engine since the owner can switch over on demand.

Edit- nvm about the otto cycle part.
Last edited by yesplease on Sun 05 Oct 2008, 18:37:15, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby Denny » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 18:36:04

Westport Technologies partners with Cummins and some other diesel engines to use compressed natural gas. This explains the application for heavy duty diesel applications. See Westport- Direct Injection

Technology Description
High Pressure Direct Injection relies on late-cycle high-pressure injection of a gaseous fuel, such as natural gas, into a combustion chamber of an internal combustion engine. The natural gas is injected at the end of the compression stroke, just like the diesel fuel is injected at the end of the compression stroke in a diesel engine. Under the pressures found in the combustion chamber of a normal diesel engine, natural gas requires higher ignition temperature than diesel (circa 800° C vs. 500° C) to maintain acceptable ignition delay period of less than 1 millisecond. To assist with the ignition of natural gas, a small amount of diesel fuel is injected into the engine cylinder using the same injector followed by the main natural gas fuel injection. This diesel fuel acts as a pilot or “liquid spark plug” which ignites rapidly the hot combustion products then igniting the natural gas.

HPDI allows diesel-cycle operation with over 90% replacement of diesel fuel. Compared to other natural gas engines, because of Westport's direct injection approach, HPDI also eliminates both part-load throttling and limits on torque due to the onset of knock. Diesel pilot-ignition has two distinct advantages: durability and ignition quality. Diesel injection systems are inherently durable as demonstrated by conventional experience. In addition, multiple ignition sites can be easily arranged (close to one per gas jet).
Last edited by Denny on Mon 06 Oct 2008, 01:15:40, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby emersonbiggins » Sun 05 Oct 2008, 22:48:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('vision-master', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he EPA rates the 2009 Jetta TDI @ 29/40 (Automatic) 30/41 (Six Speed Manual)


Big fricken deal.

I get OVER 30 mpg highway (Auto) with my full-sized Monte Carlo SS.


Sorry, but 40-45 MPG on the highway is still far more impressive than 30. None of that matters, though. What's yer city mileage? :twisted:

Anyways, is your car still worth 80% of sticker, even at 2.5 years old and with 50,000 miles on the odo? (anecdotal evidence suggests dealer offers near 90-100% of new MSRP value)

THAT, my friend, is the value of a 40+ MPG German sedan. :razz:

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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4mpg US

Unread postby wisconsin_cur » Mon 06 Oct 2008, 02:27:08

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('biofuel13', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('wisconsin_cur', '
')Why did you take it to the dealer?
:roll:


Before you nominate me for "Upper Class Twit of the Year"-- I did go to several parts stores in town and got the same answer from all of them...Only the dealership carries the kind of headlights my car has.



Sorry, I was rather abrupt if not outright rude. Where did the extra cost come from? Did they do work without asking? Did they lie about the cost? Seems like you should have some recourse.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 06 Oct 2008, 02:58:21

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Denny', 'W')estport Technologies partners with Cummins and some other diesel engines to use compressed natural gas. This explains the application for heavy duty diesel applications.


I'm sure T. Boone Pickens appreciates these guys.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby MarkJ » Mon 06 Oct 2008, 09:46:31

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SteinarN', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SteinarN', 'M')arkJ, have you ever been driving a modern diesel?


The majority of our construction equipment, heavy trucks, tankers, heating oil delivery trucks, propane delivery trucks and service fleet vehicles (GM & Dodge Sprinter vans) are diesels.


I ment cars, not light or heavy trucks.


Yes, I've driven modern diesel passenger cars as well.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MarkJ', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SteinarN', 'M')arkJ, have you ever been driving a modern diesel?


The majority of our construction equipment, heavy trucks, tankers, heating oil delivery trucks, propane delivery trucks and service fleet vehicles (GM & Dodge Sprinter vans) are diesels.

That seems odd, most of the Propane delivery trucks I have seen here in MI are propane burners, keeps things simpler for the company and all that. They do have a small liquid fuel tank in case they need to go somewhere on regular fuel, but burn mostly propane.

All of our propane delivery trucks including our tank/service body trucks are diesels.
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Re: New Passat Bluemotion II. 57.4 mpg US

Unread postby yesplease » Mon 06 Oct 2008, 11:51:10

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