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If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where to?

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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby vision-master » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 19:01:41

I'll be going to heaven. :)
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Bill Hicks » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 20:40:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Cog', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bill Hicks', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bill Hicks', '
')I have been 4 hours at an airport because of delayed flight that is about to leave.......which is why I had time to post.....maybe I will check in again sometime up ahead.

Cheers



Hope it wasn't because of the FAA furlough. There is little in this modern life more annoying than being stuck in an airport. Safe travels!


Did you get kicked off of OilAge or are you just slumming?



Nope...unlike you I 'm able to get along with a wide variety of people. I post regularly on TOA and Hubbert's Arm and also Silent Country.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Cog » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 21:01:46

I'm sure they are as thrilled as I am to have you post.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby SeaGypsy » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 22:40:33

Bill, you are wrong about your generalizations of yanks overseas.

Among aboriginal Australian's Americans are known to have started the union movement which lead to the land rights act.

The Philippines is gratefull to Americans for getting the spanish off their backs and flogging Japan in the second world war.

Each place has it's own culture and history, there is no generic view of Americans.

This plus the way you guys mostly talk the USA is going to be a race war bloodbath soon. Besides being 3rd world.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Bill Hicks » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 22:44:45

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'B')ill, you are wrong about your generalizations of yanks overseas.

Among aboriginal Australian's Americans are known to have started the union movement which lead to the land rights act.

The Philippines is gratefull to Americans for getting the spanish off their backs and flogging Japan in the second world war.

Each place has it's own culture and history, there is no generic view of Americans.

This plus the way you guys mostly talk the USA is going to be a race war bloodbath soon. Besides being 3rd world.



Examine the finer points of my posts, SG. I said that any outsider who is not integrated into their community when TSHTF will be at risk. I'm NOT saying there aren't Americans capable of doing that, just that very few I know would be.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby SeaGypsy » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 22:54:36

Ok, difficult does not equal impossible; come visit me in the Philippines some time, I will introdue you to dozens of 'Kano' who have done just that.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Sixstrings » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 22:58:22

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', 'A')mericans on the other hand are mostly locked into a defensive polarization as a result of the collective media culture that has come to define what culture is in America. Your perception of living in a foreign country and being targeted as an American is flawed because of the way the media has penetrated into your psyche.

Yeah I have to agree here.

When I've traveled internationally I almost always felt welcome. Only a couple exceptions.. some of the French in paris, though it was just a couple people in what is a very large city. If you get out of the city everybody is nice to you, big difference.

But I can only think of literally two or three bad experiences after quite a bit of travelling. Of course, how you behave makes all the difference in the world. You cannot be the "ugly American." You must remember you're in another culture with a different way of doing just about everything, and you have to adjust to that.

But on the whole.. the people of the world are surprisingly good people, and hospitable.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]You would probably put a Canadian flag on your back pack if you went travelling abroad afraid to acknowledge your country of origin feeling locals would treat your aggressively.


Yeah I remember that. The young Canadians have maple leafs on their backpack and older people wear a maple leaf pin. It's rather hilarious, to most non English speakers canucks and Americans are the same to them -- which infuriates the Canadians. :lol: I never understood the maple leaf thing, nobody else is out travelling with flags on them. Why make a point of that, leave your flags at home and blend in with the culture you're visiting.

Personally, I would never *think* of wearing the stars and stripes on me while travelling. It's obnoxious, you'd be walking around making a point of how different you are. Tourists are easy to spot as it is.. I've had good experiences but no thanks I'm not going to wear a big banner that shouts GRINGO, MUG ME. And more to the point, if I travel I'm not "an American" I'm just a person. I don't represent my country. Which is what this thread is about, if things get bad enough here I might just leave one day.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Sixstrings » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 23:28:50

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Bill Hicks', 'T')he overwhelming majority of Americans will be completely helpless to help themselves when the government is no longer there to support them.


Rural folks are pretty resilient. Especially Southerners.. there are guys who can catch a gigantic cat fish with their bare hands. They'll never go hungry.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Sixstrings » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 23:38:16

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ibon', '[')b]I have lost somewhat patience with displaced Americans whining about their suffering loss of wealth.


Great post, and informative.

I'll only take minor issue with you here.. you don't sound like you've ever been poor. You've traveled, and have property in Panama. So perhaps it's easy for you to "lose patience" with some "whining" out of work 99er in Ohio.. someone who doesn't know what they're going to do, in a country with no social safety net that's not creating jobs anymore.

In Panama, I imagine folks are at least free to pitch a tent or shack somewhere and make some money with a food cart or something. Not so in the US. We have uber regulations on everything, permits and health inspectors and even tree pruning inspectors, zoning codes, regulation on everything BUT what to do about jobless folks -- so those Americans verging on homelessness are in a really bad trap, there is no social safety net here yet they don't have the freedom to figure something out.

Being internationally aware, you surely know how we do things in the US isn't the norm for other developed first world nations. Fact is, unlike the UK, Europe, and Japan, we don't even have public housing in the US. I saw an article yesterday about 5,000 people stampeding for just 100 public housing apartments in Dallas. These people have nowhere to go but the street, yet it's illegal to sleep in the street. What are they supposed to do, Ibon?

I would say have more patience for the "whining" American underclass. They're in a bad spot, they're living in a country that's designed for wealthy folk.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Sat 30 Jul 2011, 23:49:42, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby AgentR11 » Sat 30 Jul 2011, 23:42:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sixstrings', 'R')ural folks are pretty resilient. Especially Southerners.. there are guys who can catch a gigantic cat fish with their bare hands. They'll never go hungry.


Don't try this at home unless you have a very high tolerance for NASTY. [regulations on this practice vary greatly, always consult your fish and game laws and be legal.]

For a much more relaxing time catfishing, I recommend two methods, either leisurely running of trot lines, or night fishing with heavy baited hooks on the bottom. No rush.. dinner will arrive shortly.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 00:10:06

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('AgentR11', 'D')on't try this at home unless you have a very high tolerance for NASTY.=


Oh, *I* don't noodle:

Image

Now look at that photo. These old boys ain't gonna starve to death after the dehydrated peas run out. :lol:

Image

I'm related to / know some rednecks. Got my preps covered there. :lol:
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby TITAN » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 17:10:27

Staying right here.

Although the wife and I have fantasized about/contemplated relocating somewhere near the Oregon coast...
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Shaved Monkey » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 18:22:20

Problem would be if you did go somewhere when the SHTF you would stand out as the American blow in.
Even after several years you would still be the American.
Only solution would be to go now and try and assimilate or not go at all.

We have a "localish" guy who runs a few cattle and sells some wood and mulch an ex Californian who didn't go home after the Vietnam war,he is still known as the American who sells mulch....after nearly 40 years...nice guy though, nearly has a bit of an Australian accent.

If blending in and becoming invisible is a priority to survive, it will be hard in a foreign country.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Crusty » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 20:19:13

We have an American couple who moved into my small Australian community a few years back and you couldn't find a nicer couple of people. I agree with Ibon, whilst you can hate a countries government to bring that down to individuals living in it is just... well...wrong! Mind you they have been here and integrated into our community beautifully. (they're in my Dragon Boat Team) Not that Politics is mentioned that often but they often say they can't see why life has to be so hard in the US when it's so easy here.

Australia is mostly desert whilst it appears that the US has much more arable land so if America got it act together, distributed the wealth a bit more evenly, stopped trying to protect the rest of the world and looked after its own people, it would be a great place to sit this thing out.

Still I'm not looking to emigrate to the US, but if I did I'd try to fit into their customs and value system. So I guess that's my point, If you move somewhere better you'd have to leave you old values behind because they're worse and fit in with the new customs and values because....well...they're better.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Ferretlover » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 20:56:27

IfWhen things get crazier in the US, what makes you think that there will be any long distance transportation available, or, enough funds and permission to use it?
And, if things are that bad in the US, just imagine how bad they'd be elsewhere. And, what country is going to let non-natives in to use up their resources?
All in all, a silly question. If you aren't where you want to be, get there and acclimate yourself.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 21:48:29

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ferretlover', 'A')nd, if things are that bad in the US, just imagine how bad they'd be elsewhere.


Well, that's my point, things aren't as bad elsewhere. An Australian a few posts up commented how his American neighbors "don't understand why life in the US has to be so hard, and it's so easy in Australia."

Not that out of work 99ers have any money to emigrate anyway. But the point is.. if you know the ship is going down, the US is in terminal decline, yet there are other countries out there with a bright future then why the hell stay here? Wouldn't it be better for your children and future grandchildren to get them situated in a country with a future?

Many of the rich have already left. Places like Singapore. The investment guru Marc Faber moved there, he's not ashamed to say he got his whole family out of the US and isn't coming back. Even though he profits nicely from American decline, this isn't a place he wants his children to live in. Steve Wynn moved himself and his company to China, calls his company a Chinese company now. He's left America behind, he wants to be part of the future.

And then there's the Tea Party.. they're getting a bit spooky..

Ferret you say there wouldn't be time to get out anyway. But look at Nazi Germany.. there was a window of time there, where it was clear things were going to get very bad. The smart people got out of Germany before it was too late. I'm not saying we're at that point, obviously, but it's not impossible. All kinds of things become possible during an economic depression that the government won't address and eventually inflation / hyperinflation takes hold.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby midnight-gamer » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 22:03:20

I suppose I would stay with my wife's lovely family in Thailand. Plenty of work to be had as an English teacher.

An American in his twenties roomed with my sister in law. After a stint in the Marines, he left for Thailand and never came back. Lot's of countries have a expat community.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby kiwichick » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 22:17:50

a major part of the news in australia is how to stop boat loads of "illegal" migrants from coming

the govt has recently signed an agreement with Malaysia for them to take the "illegal" migrants in exchange for refugees already processed in Malaysia


and what do you mean by "if" things get crazy in US ?
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby AgentR11 » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 22:53:56

Yall ask about why life has to be "so hard" in the US. Simple. It doesn't, and isn't.. UNLESS.

You've ever played keeping up with the Jones'.

If you played that game at some point over the last two decades; well, now you get to pay up. So it's gonna suck for a while.

I never played.
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Re: If things get crazy in the US, would you emigrate? Where

Postby Sixstrings » Sun 31 Jul 2011, 23:11:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Shaved Monkey', 'W')e have a "localish" guy who runs a few cattle and sells some wood and mulch an ex Californian who didn't go home after the Vietnam war,he is still known as the American who sells mulch....after nearly 40 years...nice guy though, nearly has a bit of an Australian accent


Well, that's the rub isn't it. Even if it may be a better place to live, a country with a future and good sane government, it's still not home. I've never been to Australia but I can imagine it would be disconcerting after a while. Just the cultural differences.. everything on TV different, different humor, outlooks on things. No shared history, truly an outsider.

It would be odd hearing the accent all the time, never hearing an American accent.

I think I could adjust better in a non English speaking country that has an expat community. In a place like that, just speaking English has value and makes you a bit of a village celebrity. It helps to fit in when people are eager to get to know you just because you're an American. And even if it were a country with f*cked up government and society, being foreign I wouldn't expect it to ever change. I'd be able to accept it. What's hard is watching these changes in the country I grew up in, it's hard to accept because it didn't used to be this way.

Overall, I think Canada would be the best option for easiest transition. It's different in all the ways that matter, but otherwise the same. And it's much closer to home than the other side of the world.. Canada isn't any farther than living in Michigan or Maine or Washington State.

The point of this thread is that I don't think we're going to have Mad Max worldwide collapse within our lifetime. BUT.. it's still going to be an ongoing progression of doom and turmoil, and a lot of it. So maybe a move to some place like Canada would be smart. Just to cut out so much of the craziness stateside and not have to think about it anymore. Go about ones life and not have to worry about a crazy Tea Party or the latest war we've started or a government utterly controlled by the top 1% and corporations.

I'm just tired of doom. But even if I stop following national news, my own state government is insane. I can't ignore local issues, I live here. We have broken, bad government in the US and the worst part of it is the uncertainty -- businesses say they won't hire because they can't be sure of anything. If I just lived some place where society / government was a bit healthier then I could forget all this stuff and go about my life -- which is how it's supposed to be.
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