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I'm sad

Discussions related to the physiological and psychological effects of peak oil on our members and future generations.

I'm sad

Unread postby Falconoffury » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 11:41:13

The more I learn about how the world works, the sadder I become. Does anyone else feel this way?
"If humans don't control their numbers, nature will." -Pimentel
"There is not enough trash to go around for everyone," said Banrel, one of the participants in the cattle massacre.
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Unread postby KiddieKorral » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 11:43:27

Check the Psychology forum. You're not the only one.
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Unread postby DriveElectric » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 11:50:04

Xanax helps, for about 6 hours. :roll:
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Unread postby MicroHydro » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 11:50:39

This is a stage in becoming a mature adult. For some it happens early, for others later, for some never. One must realize that there is no Santa Claus, Easter bunny, great pumpkin, or tooth fairy and move on.

Perhaps in the distant future, genetic engineers will be able to tinker with human nature. For everyone alive now, we are stuck with the same H. sapiens that has been running amok and devastating the planet for 10,000 generations. Once you accept what people are, it is much easier to achieve your personal goals.
"The world is changed... I feel it in the water... I feel it in the earth... I smell it in the air... Much that once was, is lost..." - Galadriel
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Unread postby entropyfails » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 12:16:23

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', 'P')erhaps in the distant future, genetic engineers will be able to tinker with human nature. For everyone alive now, we are stuck with the same H. sapiens that has been running amok and devastating the planet for 10,000 generations. Once you accept what people are, it is much easier to achieve your personal goals.


Did you mean 10,000 years?

Our ancestors 200,000 years ago (10k generations) did just fine at preserving their environment and respecting the K-selection nature of mammal life.

However, somewhere between 10,000 and 15,000 years ago, someone got the "brilliant" idea that by killing off the animals that we didn’t like and fencing things in, we could grow our population. We now see the “fruits” of this labor against our environment.

But you only need to blame your last 500 to 1000 ancestors for that. *grin*
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Re: I'm sad

Unread postby Aaron » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 12:18:44

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury', 'T')he more I learn about how the world works, the sadder I become. Does anyone else feel this way?


The absolute worst part...

...is that you ain't seen nothin yet.
The problem is, of course, that not only is economics bankrupt, but it has always been nothing more than politics in disguise... economics is a form of brain damage.

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Unread postby BabyPeanut » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 14:13:51

It helps to open your mind big enough to be able to have room for both the pleasure and pain in your life.
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Unread postby holmes » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 14:38:56

I have become angry but happy at the same time. Im even more manic as 2+ million acres gets flushed each year. Global warming is the biggie. Hang in there, pardner. as A-Ron said ya aint seen nothing yet.
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Unread postby Grimnir » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 14:39:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he more I learn about how the world works, the sadder I become. Does anyone else feel this way?


Yes, except change sad to angry.
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Unread postby MicroHydro » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 15:02:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('entropyfails', 'O')ur ancestors 200,000 years ago (10k generations) did just fine at preserving their environment and respecting the K-selection nature of mammal life.


Actually, no. The people who settled Australia ~ 50,000 years ago caused mass extinctions of large animals. They also used fire for hunting, leading to desertification that the continent has never recovered from. They were no wiser than oil age man.

In the preceding period 200,000 - 50,000 yrs bp, humans were probably equally destructive but too few in number to have an ecological impact that is easily detectable in the fossil record.
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Re: I'm sad

Unread postby Raxozanne » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 15:06:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Falconoffury', 'T')he more I learn about how the world works, the sadder I become. Does anyone else feel this way?


Yes, there are tons of people taking prozac now if that's not an indication of how disenchanted people are with life I don't know what is. I myself have wandered past sadness into despair and indifference.
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Unread postby entropyfails » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 15:30:40

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', '
')Actually, no. The people who settled Australia ~ 50,000 years ago caused mass extinctions of large animals. They also used fire for hunting, leading to desertification that the continent has never recovered from. They were no wiser than oil age man.

In the preceding period 200,000 - 50,000 yrs bp, humans were probably equally destructive but too few in number to have an ecological impact that is easily detectable in the fossil record.

Introduction of a new species always causes environmental turmoil including species loss. This happened in the North American continent with the introduction of humans as well. However in both those places we didn't see an exponential growth culture form with the determination to wipe out all competing life forms. They both reached a somewhat stable population until colonized by our culture.

As for humans causing the deserts in Australia, I have not heard of this other than the research of T.F. Flannery which I have not had the chance to look at in depth. Does your source of information come from him? I'd love to know more.

From what I have seen so far, humans use a K-selection tribal strategy unless they become convinced that they must R-select human population growth because it "is the TRUE way to live." Now while even these K-selecting human beings will fundamentally change how an ecosystem works, their introduction will not cause ultimate environmental destruction. Our "humans are better than animals" way will, on the other hand.
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Unread postby entropyfails » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 15:39:30

Now I have admonished all of you to listen to more They Might Be Giants, I think perhaps if you come to understand the meaning of this song you may see your predicament more clearly.

Or listen to BabyPeanut. He’s saying the same thing.

A part of Mr. Me by TMBG
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'O')nce a boy named Mister Me bemoaned a great regret
I've floundered in the misty sea, but can't abide its mystery
I wound up sad, you bet

So onward go and Edward Ho into the bounding main
Enjoy the show look out below but mind the misty sea
Or end up sad like Mister Me

He ended up sad
He ended up sad
He ended up really, really, really sad

So take the hand of Mister Me and mister, make him glad
To swim the Mister Misty Sea and cease the Mister Mystery
That mister, made him sad

He ended up sad
He ended up sad
He ended up really, really, really sad



The answer is there is no answer.
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Unread postby holmes » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 15:40:18

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('MicroHydro', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('entropyfails', 'O')ur ancestors 200,000 years ago (10k generations) did just fine at preserving their environment and respecting the K-selection nature of mammal life.


Actually, no. The people who settled Australia ~ 50,000 years ago caused mass extinctions of large animals. They also used fire for hunting, leading to desertification that the continent has never recovered from. They were no wiser than oil age man.

In the preceding period 200,000 - 50,000 yrs bp, humans were probably equally destructive but too few in number to have an ecological impact that is easily detectable in the fossil record.


I am not too sure of this. I do know that this has been what we have been taught in the "history" books. Ice age big game hunters spread across the continents using their advnaced tools the clovis point extirminating the fuana and flora. We are now finding out this is the furthest from the truth. We are actually finding out these "primitive" people were tuned into the environment and had a spiritual connection to the earth. Not what our whiteman capitalist books have punched into our heads. National Geographic is coming out with many studies now. Thus the reason why these "savages" thrived for 40,000 years maybe more. while we are on our way out modern style in under 200. extinctions were more about the change in the cyclic weather patterns coming out of the ice age.
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Unread postby erl » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 16:30:46

Prozac?

No.

Zoloft.
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Unread postby Grimnir » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 16:34:38

The Prince and The Magician

Once upon a time there was a young prince who believed in all things but three. He did not believe in princesses, he did not believe in islands, and he did not believe in God. His father, the king, told him that such things did not exist. As there were no princesses or islands in his father's domains, and no sign of God, the prince believed his father.

But then, one day, the prince ran away from his palace and came to the next land. There, to his astonishment, from every coast he saw islands, and on these islands, strange and troubling creatures whom he dared not name. As he was searching for a boat, a man in full evening dress approached him along the shore.

"Are those real islands?" asked the young prince.
"Of course they are real islands," said the man in evening dress.
"And those strange and troubling creatures?"
"They are all genuine and authentic princesses."
"Then God must also exist!" cried the young prince.
"I am God," replied the man in evening dress, with a bow.

The young prince returned home as quickly as he could.
"So, you are back," said his father, the king.
"I have seen islands, I have seen princesses, I have seen God," said the prince reproachfully.
The king was unmoved.
"Neither real islands, real princesses nor a real God exist."
"I saw them!"
"Tell me how God was dressed."
"God was in full evening dress."
"Were the sleves of his coat rolled back?"
The prince remembered that they had been. The king smiled.
"That is the uniform of a magician. You have been deceived."

At this, the prince returned to the next land and went to the same shore, where once again he came upon the man in full evening dress.
"My father, the king, has told me who you are," said the prince indignantly. "You deceived me last time, but not again. Now I know that those are not real islands and real princesses, because you are a magician."
The man on the shore smiled.
"It is you who are deceived, my boy. In your father's kingdom, there are many islands and many princesses. But you are under your father's spell, so you cannot see them."

The prince pensively returned home. When he saw his father, he looked him in the eye.
"Father, is it true that you are not a real king, but only a magician?"
The king smiled and rolled back his sleeves.
"Yes, my son, I'm only a magician."
"Then the man on the other shore was God."
"The man on the other shore was another magician."
"I must know the truth, the truth beyond magic."
"There is no truth beyond magic," said the king.
The prince was full of sadness. He said "I will kill myself."
The king by magic caused Death to appear. Death stood in the door and beckoned to the prince. The prince shuddered. He remembered the beautiful but unreal islands and the unreal but beautiful princesses.
"Very well," he said, "I can bear it".
"You see, my son," said the king, "you, too, now begin to be a magician."

from "The Magus", John Fowles.
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Unread postby lorenzo » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 16:36:50

Procreate and die. That's your only mission. If you happen to extract some joy during the process, good for you.

Remember: you are merely a pack of genes in God's huge selection pool. As an individual, you are irrelevant.

I hope this thought comforts you.

If not, try some Belgian beer.
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Unread postby Raxozanne » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 16:51:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('erl', 'P')rozac?

No.

Zoloft.


Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Wellbutrin, Lexapro, Celexa.... choose your poison.
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Unread postby turmoil » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 17:00:01

After talking with my uncle off and on for a few months about life, he said one day, "It doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter that it doesn't matter."
"If you are a real seeker after truth, it's necessary that at least once in your life you doubt all things as far as possible"-Rene Descartes

"When you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains however improbable must be the truth"-Sherlock Holmes
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Unread postby PenultimateManStanding » Wed 29 Jun 2005, 17:36:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('lorenzo', 'P')rocreate and die. That's your only mission. If you happen to extract some joy during the process, good for you.

Remember: you are merely a pack of genes in God's huge selection pool. As an individual, you are irrelevant.

I hope this thought comforts you.

If not, try some Belgian beer.
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