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How Long Do We Have?

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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby bodigami » Sun 06 Jul 2008, 23:48:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anagami', '
')
Networks can be mantained as long as possible. The Internet was invented to survival nuclear wars after all. Wireless mesh networks using p2p protocols and open source software enhanced locally are quite promising.


Are you familiar with the Olduvai Gorge Theory?


Yes, but it's just a theory not an absolute truth.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anagami', '
')
Also, I'm studying computing and networking, for my studies and free lance job I use the Internet as basic tool. Saying to "do without" this tools BEFORE TSHTF is arrogant.


No one else but you have said "do without" now.[/quote]

I misunderstood and apologize then. But the "advice of doing without" follows the same line of thinking some of you are using. IMO, computers and nets can be useful while they're here.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anagami', '
')
I'm anti-war anyway, but communicating with people from around the world makes the willingness to nuke them much less likely.


Policy makers will do want they want regardless of what we want and whether we communicate it across the internet, and if you haven't noticed that's how it's always been.


Police makers need pawns to die for them. If they're no pawns, there will be no wars.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('jupiters_release', '
')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anagami', '
')
Also, don't talk about TEOTWAWKI as a fact to judge others.


TEOTWAWKI and die-off are not only fact, it's history. The collective spiritual consciousness isn't far from extinction, you're only confused because it hasn't manifested in the physical yet.


I know about the collective spiritual consciousness and awakening of humanity. But that doesn't contradict using networks to plant seeds of awakening worldwide.
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby bodigami » Sun 06 Jul 2008, 23:52:59

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'O')ne of the difficulties here is defining the object; i.e., how long do we have UNTIL WHAT? I have trouble with that myself. I guess the answer would be, Until the bad external trends have a sufficiently stinging personal impact, beyond some threshold that I won't recognize until I cross it.


They have being crossed for me. 400 000 people with no public water for 3 days. Even if it was an accident, I'm remembering how complex systems can fail so easily.

My family has a water tank, but that storage is near its limits. At least it has scared me enough to make more preparations; I don't care anymore if my family says I'm "paranoid".
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby bodigami » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 00:05:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TWilliam', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'H')ow long do we have? I don't know, but eagerness to embrace the systems and ideas that have created our troubles strikes me as especially un-enlightened.


This stands at the heart of what I was getting at. I was never advocating "deny undeveloped countries access while keeping it for ourselves". The point I was making is that western (capitalist) expansionism as an ideology is cancerous, and providing technology to cultures who were heretofore ignorant of its existence is not humanitarianism, it is a primary means by which that cancer is spread. Its presence creates demand for a consumerist lifestyle where none previously existed, a lifestyle which I detest here as much as anywhere else, and while I may make limited use of it, that is because I have no alternative since it is the culture in which I was raised and in which I am embedded.

And please, no ridiculous 'if you don't like it then why don't you leave' crap. If I were dropped naked into the middle of a tropical jungle, I'd have about as much chance of surviving as anagami would being dropped naked into the middle of Antarctica. One does not simply 'leave' their culture.


For your peace of mind: try changing the course of a sinking boat, without craving for a dream island. [s]Some[/s] most of us my die drown, but the survivors can have more possibilities of surviving more time if we don't fragment each other in "civilized" and "environmentalists" before the boat was sinked.

We're a technological species, for good and bad. I didn't like it before and tryied to runaway from it. But I realised that it's not all bad and that I need some technology to survive. Then, what I'm doing now is changing my part of this technological host (that we made to live as parasites) for one that is more harmonious with nature.

If it's not possible to change our own host, we may die. Starting from scratch is not possible because there are billions of people that depend on this host. We may kill this host only after we have a viable alternative that is harmonious with nature...

...or we may wait for the die-off and start from scratch. But then we will be quite depressed waiting for this "cleansing" to happen.
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 00:11:45

Back to Dante's point, I think that the street level situation is that the stock market is the next serious trouble spot. The downward drift lately has been ugly but more or less orderly.

What I am concerned about is that the herd is going to get spooked and all head for the exits at the same time. Too many sellers, not enough buyers = hard crash. It's that simple. Especially with these light trading summer days. I would think a crash could occur more easily during this time of year.

We haven't had a good hard stock market crash in a long time. The 1987 crash almost doesn't count, since the rebound happened pretty quickly (we were in the middle of a long term bull market). What I am thinking is a hard crash, and then when people start looking around at what's out there to buy and what might be a bargain, I'm not sure they are going to have the stomach to get back in en masse as they start to look at the American consumer, debt levels, energy costs, etc.

We have been in a long term bear market probably since about 2000 or so. This bear market would ordinarily take 10-20 years to work itself out, but since there won't be any cheap oil on the other side of this one, it's really hard to say what happens next.

What will be very interesting to see will be how the majors and the oilfield service and drillers hold up in the crash scenario I am describing. The market punished them pretty well last week, even as oil went higher.

When it begins to dawn on people that their retirement money in their 401(k) accounts is GONE, and won't be coming back, that's not going to be a happy day (think of all the boomers on the verge of retirement right now). I'm not sure people are understanding this yet.
:)
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby DantesPeak » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 00:23:13

A 10%, 20% or even 30% stock market drop from here would be bad, but by itself wouldn't necessarily mean the economy would crash (although I expect a deepening recession in the second half regardless). What is a bigger problem is that if foriegners determine that the US economic system is doomed, then the 2% interest rate on dollars looks, well, rather silly while you have continued hypreinflation in commodities.

While I am not specifically predicting a date on this yet, there is a possibility for much higher interest rates later this year. That would kill off the economy.

Contrary to popular belief the Fed does not have complete control over interest rates, but its prodding generally works except in extreme circumstances - such as in a dollar collapse. One of those extreme circumstances will be coming some time in the second half of 2008.
It's already over, now it's just a matter of adjusting.
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 07:42:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('DantesPeak', 'A') 10%, 20% or even 30% stock market drop from here would be bad, but by itself wouldn't necessarily mean the economy would crash (although I expect a deepening recession in the second half regardless). What is a bigger problem is that if foriegners determine that the US economic system is doomed, then the 2% interest rate on dollars looks, well, rather silly while you have continued hypreinflation in commodities.

While I am not specifically predicting a date on this yet, there is a possibility for much higher interest rates later this year. That would kill off the economy.

Contrary to popular belief the Fed does not have complete control over interest rates, but its prodding generally works except in extreme circumstances - such as in a dollar collapse. One of those extreme circumstances will be coming some time in the second half of 2008.


The long bond market is just insanely distorted right now.

Rates on 30 year treasuries are around 5%? That's amazing. The only thing that is keeping them there, I assume, is the Chinese, Japanese and oil exporting countries recycling their dollars back into the U.S. If any one of these players decided they didn't like getting 5% when real inflation was running 7-9%, long term rates could shoot up quickly.

In that scenario, it would be like a bunch of rats jumping off of a sinking ship (the stock market) onto a rescue ship (the bond market) that was also sinking.

It would be a rat catastrophe. Maybe just "ratastrophe" for short.
:)
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Heineken » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 08:27:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pedalling_faster', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', 'O')ne of the difficulties here is defining the object; i.e., how long do we have UNTIL WHAT? I have trouble with that myself. I guess the answer would be, Until the bad external trends have a sufficiently stinging personal impact, beyond some threshold that I won't recognize until I cross it.


i think the Bush Cheney administration is likely to extract some bizarre political gain from a major stock market crash, which in this case would be to give Israel a thumbs up on attacking Iran.

the goal being to make Iran someone we can blame our economic problems on.

"everything was OK until Iran attacked us" "and that turned a recession into a depression"

the US is already engaged in a low level series of attacks on Iran, or at least things that we would consider an act of war if somebody crossed from Mexico into the US, and did them to the US.

i don't think the stock market dropping to 7000 is that big a deal, it re-traces its steps to where it was in what, 1990 ? i guess then we would find out what a bubble free US economy looks like, with $140 barrel oil, and that will be a huge deal, though hard to visualize.

if the US started making things again, like in the 1980's, i would like that.

i swear, i think having madmen in the White House does complicate the situation !


The US/Israel strategy against Iran reminds me a bit of Hitler's against his European neighbors just before WWII. Stir up the hornet's nest, then scream like a baby when you get stung. Or better yet, insert your own hornets into the nest and have them sting you. It's a transparent strategy, but an effective one for "justifying" imperial chess moves that would probably be made anyway.

Iran is a big trigger for doom, no doubt about it. So is the whole US military involvement in the Middle East. That has to be one of the most dangerous, stupid, wasteful, and futile "missions" we've ever engaged in.
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Jack » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 08:46:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('anagami', '
')...or we may wait for the die-off and start from scratch. But then we will be quite depressed waiting for this "cleansing" to happen.


On the contrary, it's all about attitude. I am reminded of Milton; wherein Lucifer comments that the mind can make of Hell, a Heaven.

So the die off merely requires us to have a positive outlook, abundant supplies for ourselves, and an ample supply of hot buttered popcorn.

8)
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby mos6507 » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 14:19:58

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Heineken', '
')The US/Israel strategy against Iran reminds me a bit of Hitler's


Ah, US/Israel as Hitler's germany. Godwin's law strikes again.

Poor Iran, signatory of the NPT mind you, is so innocent, so blameless.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... -West.html
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Zeeea » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 19:00:32

find out if Nibiru (Planet X) is really there to determine how long we have ...

I really really want someone to prove me wrong lol :P
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 19:15:46

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zeeea', '
')
I really really want someone to prove me wrong lol :P


It would be impossible to prove you wrong, because only loons believe in Planet X/Nibiru - any legitimate source of information about the planets such as from NASA would immediately be discounted. Any authority offering an alternative explanation will be rejected. :cry:

In any case, here are some links:

http://www.universetoday.com/2008/05/25 ... -planet-x/

http://starchild.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/Sta ... tion4.html
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Zeeea » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 19:49:02

hmmm ...so much conflicting information ...I saw it on the news as well here ...and other sources since ive been looking into it ...its hard to determine which information is correct ...

the technical term for the planet im talking about is "GI 436" ...type that into google and see what you find!!!!

There are alot of sources that have pictures of it even ...

http://www.netwhatever.com/astrodownunder/index.php
http://planetquest.jpl.nasa.gov/TPF/STD ... 2FF86A.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh_qTnn3omc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsFM34m-Bjg
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Ludi » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 19:55:57

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zeeea', '
')the technical term for the planet im talking about is "GI 436" ...type that into google and see what you find!!!!


Ok, that planet is extremely far from Earth. I don't know why it is of concern to you...

"The first planet orbits a cool, reddish dwarf star called Gilese 436 in the Leo constellation. Meticulous observation of the star began in July 2003 and detected the planet believed to be at least 21 times the size of Earth. It completes its orbit at the blazing rate of just 2.64 days instead of Earth's 365 days."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/08/3 ... index.html
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby BigTex » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 20:10:55

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zeeea', '
')the technical term for the planet im talking about is "GI 436" ...type that into google and see what you find!!!!


Ok, that planet is extremely far from Earth. I don't know why it is of concern to you...

"The first planet orbits a cool, reddish dwarf star called Gilese 436 in the Leo constellation. Meticulous observation of the star began in July 2003 and detected the planet believed to be at least 21 times the size of Earth. It completes its orbit at the blazing rate of just 2.64 days instead of Earth's 365 days."

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/08/3 ... index.html


I wonder how many Starbucks stores they have.
:)
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Zeeea » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 21:11:10

well even if you dont care others might ...and just because "you" dont understand it doesnt make it not possible ...

http://www.detailshere.com/niburu.htm
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread194855/pg1
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns? ... news_rss20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jkD8aB24Zk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGkAOUlQVE&NR=1

only a fool would disregard this without further investigation ...

this is a MAJOR planetary shift and I cant believe some people are so quickly dismissing this lol ...are you afraid because you havent sold your stocks yet ... :P
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Zeeea » Mon 07 Jul 2008, 23:37:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cbxer55', 'I')'ll tell you what! (said in typical mid-western drawl) You tell me how you intend to get there, and I'll join ya! But I gots to brings my two .45 Colts and my .32 NAA. Also a couple of sharp knives, a few bright lights, a brain thumper. You do not go to a strange planet un-armed! Period! I do not have any stocks!

how do I intend to get where lol ...my cellar? Id say in a typical aussie voice ...id walk down the stairs my friend :) Plenty of knives already on board and some other nasty things ...good things too :P But theres only room for me and mine sorry ...Id start digging a cellar if i were you ...just in case ;)
although somehow I dont think a cellar would be sufficient ...going from past ice ages you need to be at least 100 feet underground not to be affected :/
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby BigTex » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 00:28:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zeeea', 'w')ell even if you dont care others might

Wait a second, I didn't say I didn't care. In fact, if you will explain the relevance of this information to me I would be very interested in reading it.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', ' ')...and just because "you" dont understand it doesnt make it not possible ...

Wait a second, I didn't say I didn't understand it. All I did was ask how many Starbucks stores they have there. Maybe I understand it better than you think.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'o')nly a fool would disregard this without further investigation ...

What is the purpose of the investigation?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')his is a MAJOR planetary shift and I cant believe some people are so quickly dismissing this lol

What is the relevance to us of a major planetary shift many light years away? I'm interested in your thoughts on the matter.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..are you afraid because you havent sold your stocks yet ... :P
No, I'm not afraid. I'm still not sure what a major planetary shift has to do with the stock market. But I am eager to learn.
:)
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby Zeeea » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 00:58:26

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('BigTex', 'W')ait a second, I didn't say I didn't care. In fact, if you will explain the relevance of this information to me I would be very interested in reading it.
Wait a second, I didn't say I didn't understand it. All I did was ask how many Starbucks stores they have there. Maybe I understand it better than you think.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 't')his is a MAJOR planetary shift and I cant believe some people are so quickly dismissing this lol

What is the relevance to us of a major planetary shift many light years away? I'm interested in your thoughts on the matter.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..are you afraid because you havent sold your stocks yet ... :P

No, I'm not afraid. I'm still not sure what a major planetary shift has to do with the stock market.
But I am eager to learn.

I didnt quote you when i said that ...so what makes you think I was talking to you ...hit a nerve did i lol :P And im not here to answer your questions if you are so blatantly ignorant :P There are plenty of links around the place you can work from and go from there like I have ...
here are a few more that some may find interesting ...
http://projectcamelot.org/norway.html
http://xfacts.com/updates/planetx2008.html
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1378480/d ... 2_the_end/
now if you have something interesting or intelligent to say on this feel free but if you are only going to start name calling and getting all upset go somewhere else ...id prefer practical discussion with relevent information ...not just peoples opinions ...
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby TWilliam » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 01:29:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Zeeea', 'n')ow if you have something interesting or intelligent to say on this feel free


Ok well here's something intelligent on this particular issue...

The first author (AFAIK) in modern times to postulate the existence of Planet X/Nibiru was Secharia Sitchin, based on his years of study of ancient Sumerian and other Mid-eastern writings. Sitchin has been quite clear over the years that based on calculations derived from these writings, he does not expect this planet, should it exist, to be re-entering the inner solar system any time within at least the next 500 years. Anyone else making claims about this planet has drawn their inspiration from his work, and any assertions that it's return is imminent are based either on a gross misunderstanding of his work or are outright falsehoods.
"It means buckle your seatbelt, Dorothy, because Kansas? Is goin' bye-bye... "
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Re: How Long Do We Have?

Unread postby mercurygirl » Tue 08 Jul 2008, 01:39:17

Zeea,

Name-calling? Ignorant? Those are not accurate descriptions of BigTex.

You need to back it down with your disrespect and take a little time to get your points across in a reasonable way. We all feel passionate about certain things, but you need to communicate them in an adult way. That is, if you want to be read, which it seems you do. If you just don't care, then prepare to be ignored by many. People are noticing that this is a pattern of yours.
Last edited by mercurygirl on Tue 08 Jul 2008, 13:56:36, edited 1 time in total.
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