[sparky]

.
I was under the impression this thread was about the conversion of methane to gasoline
it is doable , it has been done ,
some serious engineering work has been done about it and there is solid industrial data on it
it's not done because it doesn't make economic sense
unless one is fighting a world war or one is under united nation embargo , then of course economics are moot
of course one could think the whole tar sands endeavor is exactly that ,
they do use a lot of NG to dilute those embarrassingly long hydrocarbon chains

[StarvingLion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sparky', '.')
I was under the impression this thread was about the conversion of methane to gasoline
it is doable , it has been done ,
some serious engineering work has been done about it and there is solid industrial data on it
it's not done because it doesn't make economic sense
unless one is fighting a world war or one is under united nation embargo , then of course economics are moot
of course one could think the whole tar sands endeavor is exactly that ,
they do use a lot of NG to dilute those embarrassingly long hydrocarbon chains

[ROCKMAN]

pstarr - There you go again: letting facts overrule emotions/prejudice. Stop it this instance...you're not playing nice with the Lie'on King. LOL.

[Carnot]

Starving Lion,

Did you miss breakfast. I do agree with with your dislike of consultants, especially management consultants with MBA's, many of whom I have crossed swords with in my company and left them embarrassed. I am not a consultant and neither am I a professional engineer. I am a petroleum chemist and much of what I do is now engineering based. I also have commercial skill to add to my skill set and whether you like it or not, I am not a paper pusher consultant( I think you mean pen pusher) with 10 minutes experience. I will not bore you with the details but I have been in this business for 37 years and I know BS when I see it, and I see plenty. I started my work life drilling oil wells as a mud logger. I have worked in numerous countries, including shite holes like Saudi Arabia, worked in refineries, worked in petrochemical plants, been involved with sales and marketing and now in project evaluation. My speciality is feedstocks and I have a good knowledge of oil refining and cracking technologies. I frequently have offers of work from companies and consultants. Oh, I also have many offers to speak at industry events, mainly because I talk straight and truthfully.

GTL, either by the FT route or the methanol route has its limitations. It works, there is no doubt about that. It makes good products, that is not in question. But however you cut and dice it, it is not overwhelming better than what we currently have for transport fuels production. The economics are not such that it justifies the investment in what are incredibly complex and expensive plants. These plants do not scale down. There are many discussions of micro FT plants but they have never materialised, and probably never will.

The fact is that turning NG into liquid fuels is not very energy efficient. It is better to burn the gas in a turbine directly or as CNG in a spark ignition engine. Lo and behold that it what is being done.

I do not appreciate your insults and neither am going to lower myself to your level discourse. I think we should agree to disagree.

[Keith_McClary]

An Army colonel is in trouble for complaining that a $500k gas station cost $43 million to build
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')rmy Col. John Hope blew the whistle on a task force that spent $43 million to build a useless gas station in Afghanistan. The Special Inspector General for Afghanistan Reconstruction says the useless gas station should have cost about $500,000. As a result of pointing out the doubly wasteful project, Hope has “been singled out for retaliation and retribution” for “speaking truth,” said Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) in a letter to Defense Secretary Ashton Carter.

The gas station is useless because it supplies natural gas to cars that have been converted to run on natural gas. But there are hardly any cars that run on natural gas in Afghanistan, and the cost to convert a car to run on natural gas is $700. The average annual income in Afghanistan is $690,

[Subjectivist]

Iran has a lot of excess Natural Gas for sale and a lot of their cars are running on it. An early theory on the war in Afganisan was it has a route for pipelines selling natural gas into Pakistan, which would love to buy from Iran.

[ROCKMAN]

Damn...got excited too soon. Didn't see the date at first and thought Graeme had returned. LOL. BTW to answer the question: a country, like the USA, needs to continue importing oil since it is also a net NG importer. IOW we don't produce enough oil or NG to satisfy our consumer demand.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', '&')quot;...Dineen acknowledged that his company faces a challenge in convincing the world of its results" Utter bullsh*t. It will be very easy to convince the world: just start selling gasoline et al at the then market price (or even less). Once he starts posting those profits the world will beat a path to his door step.

The trick is to figure out how to do it profitably. BTW I live 5 miles from La Port and will try to find the facility and chat them up. My billionaire boss owners a large chunk of land in La Port and was thinking about building an LNG export terminal on it. One does get peoples' attention when you work for a man with the really big bucks. LOL.

[hvacman]

1/29/16 Henry Hub spot NG price = $2.26/1,000 ft3

325,000,000 ft3 @ $2.26/1,000 ft3 = $734,500 for 33,000 bbls. That's $22/bbl or $0.53/gallon for syn diesel, not including CAPEX and OPEX.

Good $ price but from an energy-efficiency standpoint, it's a disaster.

325,000,000 ft3 of NG is 3,250,000 therms of energy.

33,000 barrels of syn diesel is 1,396,000 gallons. Energy content per gallon is 1.4 therms, so the total syn fuel energy is 1,940,000 therms. You lose 40% of the energy just making the conversion. Yeah, liquid HC is way more energy-dense and portable than NG. But we as a world continue to pay a very high long-term price for that versatility. Way better to run the gas through a combined cycle power plant and charge my Volt with the electricity:)

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hvacman', '1')/29/16 Henry Hub spot NG price = $2.26/1,000 ft3

325,000,000 ft3 @ $2.26/1,000 ft3 = $734,500 for 33,000 bbls. That's $22/bbl or $0.53/gallon for syn diesel, not including CAPEX and OPEX.

Good $ price but from an energy-efficiency standpoint, it's a disaster.

325,000,000 ft3 of NG is 3,250,000 therms of energy.

33,000 barrels of syn diesel is 1,396,000 gallons. Energy content per gallon is 1.4 therms, so the total syn fuel energy is 1,940,000 therms. You lose 40% of the energy just making the conversion. Yeah, liquid HC is way more energy-dense and portable than NG. But we as a world continue to pay a very high long-term price for that versatility. Way better to run the gas through a combined cycle power plant and charge my Volt with the electricity:)

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he Escravos GTL plant cost US$10 billion. (Its original cost started out at US$1.9 billion in 2005, rising to US$5.9 billion in 2009 but continued to escalate.) Does't feel like a good investment. The income from $40/barrel is $1.3 million per day, < $ .5 billion/year, the initial CAPEX would take 22 years to pay off. Plus OPEX

[StarvingLion]

The EV-CONS shall have their gov subsidy-mining disruption: they'll kill off the already bankrupt old oil car manufacturers and the price of oil will keep miraculously going down, the EV coal car will get miraculously "cheap" thanks to subsidies, the price of endless shale based ng will miraculously skyrocket as the new tech toy gadget (EV) becomes all the rage amongst the illiterate masses, ... AND...AND...AND...voila

every legitimate business that hasn't already been outsourced to where the "dirty, useless, obsolete" coal plants actually reside is sent packing...

Behind the wheel of the EV coal car is an outsourcer...the wannabe design engineer/MBA fool with a pile of student loans that won't be paid back.

Its a script already written. There is no competition like the neoliberal fiddle players like to pretend...its a markit and all the chart morons get taken to the cleaners.

Of course, Ron "The Dunce" Patterson says Ize a konspiracy kook.

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he Escravos GTL plant cost US$10 billion. (Its original cost started out at US$1.9 billion in 2005, rising to US$5.9 billion in 2009 but continued to escalate.) Does't feel like a good investment. The income from $40/barrel is $1.3 million per day, < $ .5 billion/year, the initial CAPEX would take 22 years to pay off. Plus OPEX

[StarvingLion]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he Escravos GTL plant cost US$10 billion. (Its original cost started out at US$1.9 billion in 2005, rising to US$5.9 billion in 2009 but continued to escalate.) Does't feel like a good investment. The income from $40/barrel is $1.3 million per day, < $ .5 billion/year, the initial CAPEX would take 22 years to pay off. Plus OPEX

[StarvingLion]

Who needs liquids when pseudos are going nuts with "renewables"!!!

"Renewable" energy is just the same old electricity.

That requires coal (carbon atom) for an actual industrial powerhouse. France, USA, UK, Germany aint it.

Therefore they can't secure coal even if it lies right underneath their feet.

Therefore, they've jumped on the last train to nowheresville...

PURE PONZI (unlike our regular fossil ponzi) ala Windmills and solar farms....its getting cheaper, cheaper, cheaper...LOL. The windmill pays for itself energetically in 33 minutes now!!! Next week 25 minutes!!! What a load of BS!

It aint and never will be cheaper than coal. Aint got carbon atom, you aint worth a dime!

[ennui2]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')Peak oil was 2015, it won't be very long before the surplus turns back into a shortage.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('pstarr', 'T')he Escravos GTL plant cost US$10 billion. (Its original cost started out at US$1.9 billion in 2005, rising to US$5.9 billion in 2009 but continued to escalate.) Does't feel like a good investment. The income from $40/barrel is $1.3 million per day, < $ .5 billion/year, the initial CAPEX would take 22 years to pay off. Plus OPEX

[Subjectivist]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ennui2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '
')Peak oil was 2015, it won't be very long before the surplus turns back into a shortage.

[ROCKMAN]

sub - I still go back to my basic premise. A shortage at some time in the past? OK then tell me when there was a single buyer that could afford the price of oil and couldn't buy any. That is the definition of a 'shortage' isn't it? Not enough to supply a whiling and capable buyer, right? And now tell me when any company is FORCED to shut their oil wells in today because no one will buy their oil. Yes, there were a few companies that might have VOLUNTARIALY reduced production a tad but not for a lack of buyers. After all more oil is being bought today than ever before in the history of the world.

And let’s not confuse supply/demand dynamics with shortages/surpluses. The market place sets the price of oil today at around $32/bbl. And every operator that wants to sell his oil has a ready buyer. And remember most of the oil going into storage is being BOUGHT from the operators...very few are storing oil themselves. And when oil was $95+/BBL the buyers (those who could afford the price) had all the oil they wanted so how can that be called a shortage?

Maybe folks should start defining what there has been a shortage/surplus of to avoid confusion. Today there is a huge surplus of $95/bbl oil…I know of no company selling any. But there is an adequate supply of $35/bbl oil and a very eager market full of buyers for that oil. Likewise at one time a couple of years ago there was a huge shortage of $40/bbl oil: no one could find a single bbl to buy. But there was an adequate supply of high priced oil: not one buyer who could afford the current price at that time lacked a single bbl available.

So once again the market place seems to be as balanced today as it was when oil was $95/bbl. No surpluses today and no shortages back them. It really isn’t rocket science. I suspect there will be some truly shocked folks wondering around in a daze when they actually experience a real shortage: when they stand in front of an empty shelf while they have a pocket full of money. Or observe a true excess surplus: watch a farmer let his field of corn rot in the sun because no food processor would even take it for free because it’s not worth burning the fuel to go pick it up.

IOW most Americans are truly spoiled and really don’t have much sense of just how cruel life can really be. Their Internet or cell phones go down for a day and they want to hang someone for causing such a shortage of communications.

[hvacman]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Subjectivist', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('hvacman', '1')/29/16 Henry Hub spot NG price = $2.26/1,000 ft3

325,000,000 ft3 @ $2.26/1,000 ft3 = $734,500 for 33,000 bbls. That's $22/bbl or $0.53/gallon for syn diesel, not including CAPEX and OPEX.

Good $ price but from an energy-efficiency standpoint, it's a disaster.

325,000,000 ft3 of NG is 3,250,000 therms of energy.

33,000 barrels of syn diesel is 1,396,000 gallons. Energy content per gallon is 1.4 therms, so the total syn fuel energy is 1,940,000 therms. You lose 40% of the energy just making the conversion. Yeah, liquid HC is way more energy-dense and portable than NG. But we as a world continue to pay a very high long-term price for that versatility. Way better to run the gas through a combined cycle power plant and charge my Volt with the electricity:)