[StuckInPhilly]

Planned? No.

Human beings are hard wired to see a reason in things, that's why they invent gods and create conspiracy theories.

Sometimes there really are conspiracies but in this case pretty much the entire nation would need to be behind it. I don't know about the rest of you but I have not been informed of my role by the Illumnati.

[Carlhole]

Even Ron Paul insists that the reason we have this "Creature From Jekyll Island" called The Fed is because we need to amp our financial ability to support a gargantuan military industrial complex, 700 bases all over the world, frequent foreign wars and all that. Ron Paul emphasizes time and again that monetary policy enables foreign policy.

If we adopted the monetary and tax policies that Ron Paul recommends, he assures us that we would not be able to afford to engage in this kind of global meddling and manipulation.

So YES! This was planned. And not in any unusual and unique way. The deliberate manipulation of the economy is a programmed feature of the US economy.

I posted my perspective on another thread so I'll quote it here again. My perspective is like the Mike Ruppert view except that Ruppert is a "10" on the Doomerosity Scale whereas I'm more like a "6.5".

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')he present financial disaster was caused by (1) the easy money policy of the Fed, (2) the lax regulations in the FNMA and FDMC that approved masses of people for mortgages who were poor credit risks (3) the creation of derivative products by Wall Street which were designed to spread the credit risk all over the world.

However, there is a bigger picture here that I don't exactly have economically clear in my own mind. But maybe someone else does. It has to do with the larger financial imbalances that have existed in the world for quite some time. Notably, the (1) offshoring of US manufacturing and other jobs to China and other emerging markets, (2) the funding of the US government by China and other foreigners, (3) the prosecution of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think the Bush Administration arrived in office after the collapse of the internet bubble and a recent hike in the price of oil. They wanted to prosecute a war in Iraq in order to establish a permanent American presence in the last best cheap oil region left on the planet. Cheney had been making speeches about the difficulty of keeping oil production steady, much less grow it. Hawks such as the Neoconservatives saw an invasion of Iraq and the capture of Central Asain resources as a way to avoid the US becoming a second-rate nation in the 21st century.

But since the US economy was no longer financially capable of funding the war (due to the loss of US manufacturing jobs and the weak economy), the American powers-that-be (which would naturally include the Bush Administration) chose to create a housing boom/bubble, which would place the economy on steroids but would have a significant downside when it finally burst. I think the econo-strategists advising Cheney probably told him that the bubble would take most of the Bush's two terms to play out.

The relatively short-lived turbo-charging of the US economy allowed China to sell huge amounts of good to Americans, who financed their purchases using the oft-mentioned "mortgage ATM"). And thus, the US could finance the wars abroad by borrowing from China - at least for a while.

It seems to me that this was a huge crap shoot that the US engaged in. Did it pay off?

When I look at the results of this mess, I see that China and the US are financial partners who are in this thing together. China owns massive amounts of US debt. I keep predicting a Global Energy Summit in which China and the US will play the predominant roles.

In this Global Energy Summit, there will be some sort of agreement made about how future development will progress, taking into consideration peak oil and its dire ramifications. There will be global, coordinated energy technology R&D and production sharing agreements. There will be a continued leveling of the Chinese and American standards of living (of course, with Americans having to face up to very diminished circumstances). The price of crude will move higher, boosting worldwide efforts to conserve and become more efficient.

This is just a quick sketch but it seems to be a reasonably clear picture of what is happening. You certainly won't see this sort of perspective on CNN.

And anyone who has read my posts here in the past knows that I am very suspicious of the events of 911. They seem to have had their role to play as well in this unfolding global drama.

Again, it seems to me that this was a huge crap shoot that the US engaged in. Maybe the proper question to ask is not "Did it pay off?" but "Will it pay off?".

[Pops]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o YES! This was planned.

[Roccland]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', 'T')he market collapse isn't manufactured lto "mask" peak oil. It IS peak oil. And the fact that it arrives at exactly the same time as peak production need not have been planned to have been necessary, in fact it is mathematically necessary.

[alokin]

It's maybe about how such things can be planned anyway. Their plans are not better than ours, well they have more information. Maybe it's like this: they plan a thing look how it works out and then adapt. And then surely there are different plans or conspiracies running at the same time.

But at the end I think there are conspiracies as 9/11 showed clearly. This event was simply to big to be planned by an old beardy man in a cave with a notebook. This plan worked out pretty well and the plotters might have been encouraged.

[eastbay]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('RdSnt', 'T')he conspiracy theory reasoning is almost always way to complicated to execute successfully.

[davep]

If the US Govt is full of big oil and investment banking bigwigs, I don't see why they wouldn't have planned it. If a few interweb loons can work out what was going to happen three or four years in advance, it wouldn't take much for the combination of knowledge of peak oil and knowledge of the debt/leverage possibilities to be manipulated for this to occur at the right time. I'd certainly do it if I were in their shoes.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '.')..an unprecedented move by President George W. Bush to give the National Director of Intelligence, John Negroponte, the authority to exempt "certain" Wall Street firms and banking giants from reporting their financial records to the Securities and Exchange Commission

[Carlhole]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Pops', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'S')o YES! This was planned.

[paimei01]

Yes

[CrudeAwakening]

If it was planned, it would seem that the spirit inherent within the Bankers Manifestos of 1892 and 1934 still abides within the upper echelons of finance:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')e (the bankers) must proceed with caution and guard every move made, for the lower order of people are already showing signs of restless commotion. Prudence will therefore show a policy of apparently yielding to the popular will until our plans are so far consummated that we can declare our designs without fear of any organized resistance.
Organizations in the United States should be carefully watched by our trusted men, and we must take immediate steps to control these organizations in our interest or disrupt them.
At the coming Omaha convention to be held July 4, 1892, our men must attend and direct its movement or else there will be set on foot such antagonism to our designs as may require force to overcome.
This at the present time would be premature. We are not yet ready for such a crisis. Capital must protect itself in every possible manner through combination (conspiracy) and legislation.
The courts must be called to our aid, debts must be collected, bonds and mortgages foreclosed as rapidly as possible.
When, through the process of law, the common people have lost their homes,
they will be more tractable and easily governed through the influence of the strong arm
of the government applied to a central power of imperial wealth under the control of the leading financiers.
People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. History repeats itself in regular cycles. This truth is well known among our principal men who are engaged in forming an imperialism of the world. While they are doing this, the people must be kept in a state of political antagonism.
The question of tariff reform must be urged through the organization known as the Democratic Party, and the question of protection with the reciprocity must be forced to view through the Republican Party.
By thus dividing voters, we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions of no importance to us, except as teachers to the common herd. Thus, by discrete actions, we can secure all that has been so generously planned and successfully accomplished.

[TheDude]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'T')he Global Energy Summit would also view Iraq's reserves of 200 - 500 billion barrels as the last huge deposit of cheap, easy energy left on the planet.

[CarlosFerreira]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('davep', 'I')f the US Govt is full of big oil and investment banking bigwigs, I don't see why they wouldn't have planned it. If a few interweb loons can work out what was going to happen three or four years in advance, it wouldn't take much for the combination of knowledge of peak oil and knowledge of the debt/leverage possibilities to be manipulated for this to occur at the right time. I'd certainly do it if I were in their shoes.

[StuckInPhilly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('CrudeAwakening', 'I')f it was planned, it would seem that the spirit inherent within the Bankers Manifestos of 1892 and 1934 still abides within the upper echelons of finance:

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Roccland', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('aflurry', 'T')he market collapse isn't manufactured lto "mask" peak oil. It IS peak oil. And the fact that it arrives at exactly the same time as peak production need not have been planned to have been necessary, in fact it is mathematically necessary.

[aflurry]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Carlhole', 'I')f we adopted the monetary and tax policies that Ron Paul recommends, he assures us that we would not be able to afford to engage in this kind of global meddling and manipulation.

[sameu]

It is no coincindence, that's for sure

when you think about it, it's very simple

oil = economic growth = creating money /credit

peak oil = peak money/credit

[Armageddon]

This looming crash is going to happen on Obama's watch, and early on his watch. As Rupport's blog said, " blame the black man ". And yes, it was all planned.

[CrudeAwakening]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('StuckInPhilly', '
')Does this document come from somewhere other than the internet?
I only find it repeated at various conspiracies websites.

[grassland]

We need to let the Federal reserve go bankrupt, then the government can print their own money.

The Federal reserve DID NOT WORK! pass it on.

[Armageddon]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('grassland', 'W')e need to let the Federal reserve go bankrupt, then the government can print their own money. The Federal reserve DID NOT WORK! pass it on.