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75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

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General interest discussions, not necessarily related to depletion.

Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sat 07 Apr 2007, 17:18:01

It's "some" debt when the median family home in my state costs in excess of $350k.

The market around here is still performing poorly, I don't doubt it. My neighbors have been unable to sell their house for over a year, despite having reduced the asking price several times. The worst case scenario is a crash of about 1/3.

But that still means that a $200k mortgage on an average house would leave you with about $35k in equity. But why should house prices fall by a third when the money supply is increasing at a rather robust 7% annual rate? (and we don't even know how high M3 growth is, thanks to the sudden desire of the Fed not to calculate it anymore.:roll:)

I strongly believe that with Helicopter Ben in charge, we won't see deflation. If the economy softens, just print more money. Heck, we have a real inflation rate well above the Fed's comfort zone but are they raising interest rates?

Most of the smart money is betting on a rate CUT in the next couple of meetings, not a rate hike.

In the 1973 to 1983 period when the dollar lost roughly half of its value, people who were invested in real estate did not lose money in nominal terms. Mortgages are not adjusted upward just because the dollar loses purchasing power so people with fixed rate mortgages will survive and may even benefit from the upcoming period of high inflation.

However, people with exotic, sub prime, interest-only ARMs will suffer horribly.

People who should never have been able to afford a home will end up renting again or in a government labor camp (as some claim that FEMA will set up).

We will only start having society-collapsing problems when energy becomes physically unavailable at any price.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby Ludi » Sat 07 Apr 2007, 17:24:33

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'W')e will only start having society-collapsing problems when energy becomes physically unavailable at any price.



That's quite an astonishing claim.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sat 07 Apr 2007, 19:03:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'W')e will only start having society-collapsing problems when energy becomes physically unavailable at any price.


That's quite an astonishing claim.


No more astonishing than the claim that $60 oil would cause the global economy to fall apart, the global supply chain to break down, and mass starvation in the first world.:)

People can adjust to higher prices, they can't adjust to physical shortages.

The problems in 1973 was not the price of gasoline because people will pay whatever it takes and cut back in other areas. The problem was that there were times when you just couldn't get the stuff.

If we run into a situation where the trucking companies can't get enough oil to run the trucks, we will have serious and immediate society-collapsing problems.

But if gasoline just slowly ticks up to $4 gallon, then $5 and so on, life will go on in most places.

But now we are no longer talking about debt-phobia...
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby MaterialExcess » Sat 07 Apr 2007, 19:49:48

Owning a home with 20%+ equity and a fixed rate mortgage is a great investment. Homes take a lot of energy to build. How affordable do you expect homes to get after PO? The years prior to PO could be the last chance to buy. I would not worry too much about how to pay for your home after PO. We cannot all lose our homes to foreclosure. Even if you rent you still need to pay and you have no control over what that rent payment will be. I cannot imagine going into PO with that kind of living arrangement.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby ColossalContrarian » Sat 07 Apr 2007, 21:08:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '[')i]Well... at least we've got our nukes.

I'm not too sure about that.

Having lived a few blocks from the Lawrence lab, I do know that a huge number (maybe even most?) of the nuclear physicists employed there are not American.


Yes, but they'd rather be in America working for America in the interest of self preservation.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby Tyler_JC » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 02:07:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Sabibaby', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', '[')i]Well... at least we've got our nukes.

I'm not too sure about that.

Having lived a few blocks from the Lawrence lab, I do know that a huge number (maybe even most?) of the nuclear physicists employed there are not American.


Yes, but they'd rather be in America working for America in the interest of self preservation.


And what makes you think that enemy sleeper agents would pass government security checks to work in our most sensitive research laboratories?

Try not to let your automatic xenophobia cloud your judgement. :)

Just because someone is an immigrant, doesn't automatically mean they are a terrorist...

I didn't realize how close America was to Fascism already! 8O
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 02:46:53

And what makes you think that enemy sleeper agents would pass government security checks to work in our most sensitive research laboratories?

....lol... silly, that's not how it works.

Few physicists working there are immigrants. Most are here on non- immigrant working visas. There's virtually no way a foreigner (immigrant or non- immigrant) could physically access the most sensitive material and information from within the facility even if they worked there.

Only US citizens can acquire the security clearance required for access to the most critical information in that facility. The primary security concern is an acquaintance or friend of someone with access could access information through blackmail, coersion, or some other means. This has nothing to do with xenophobia, immigration, or fascism...lol... it all about keeping national secrets secret.

On a lighter note, a 'joke' in that town was that no one, including the Chinese and Russians, would ever target Livermore for an attack because it's the source of their nuclear weapons technology. Ha ha ha.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 02:48:57

And, Livermore is BORING. I mean, there are far cooler places to attack, you'd have to really have no life at all to attack Livermore. :P
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 02:53:35

The really cool thing about Livermore is that it's where America's nukes are designed and 'tested'.

That's really cool. 8O
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby Zardoz » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 03:57:11

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'I')f we run into a situation where the trucking companies can't get enough oil to run the trucks, we will have serious and immediate society-collapsing problems.

But if gasoline just slowly ticks up to $4 gallon, then $5 and so on, life will go on in most places...

That's correct. The trucks are the key. If they keep running, civilization staggers on. If they stop, the Mad Max scenario becomes our daily routine.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 04:06:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'T')he really cool thing about Livermore is that it's where America's nukes are designed and 'tested'.

That's really cool. 8O


I know, I wanna take a Geiger counter over there and see if background levels are elevated, nuke stuff is kind of cool you know...... But the only problem is, with my luck I'll end up questioned by MIB types just because I think it would be cool to go to a place that makes my little nuke-meter hover at a higher level ..... sheesh I'm in more danger from the nuke meter itself with the little "source" embedded in the side for testing the probe, .... I've always wanted to go on a tour of a nuke plant but I goess that's not possible post-9/11, I also was an idiot pre 9-11 and didn't take the "hard hat" tour of the Hoover dam, I just really do like the techie stuff, it may be unsustainable but might as well see and admire it while we have the chance.....
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby EnergyUnlimited » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 09:05:01

I think that one of biggest threats for security of nukes technology is scenario, when initially honest and hard working american citizen of Chineese, Russian or Middle East origin will pass all necessary security clearances to gain access for critical information and then either get disgruntled with his job or be infuenced by his friends, family or secret services agents, to pass critical information to his motherland.
I consider, that with large numbers of such foreigners in critical places it is realistically impossible to keep technology secret.
Direct treason of American staff (eg selling classified info for money or other favours) makes further source of leaks.

So secrecy is delusion in fact. All what is achieved is that "enemy aliens" are coming into posession of critical technology with 2 or 3 years delay.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby MD » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 10:55:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('I_Like_Plants', '.').. I also was an idiot pre 9-11 and didn't take the "hard hat" tour of the Hoover dam, I just really do like the techie stuff, it may be unsustainable but might as well see and admire it while we have the chance.....


I took my entire family on that tour summer of 2000.

I am sorry to say that you did indeed miss something very special.

Perhaps some day the tours can resume.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby grabby » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 11:01:41

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'I') searched around a bit and couldn't fine any hard numbers showing how many Americans actually OWN their homes... as in, owe nothing to anyone... no liens and no mortgage.

If anyone knows this I would like to see the number and percentage of homes paid off in full.

Thanks. :)


We own ours, and our cars, but all they have to do is come and take it over and SAY they are putting a park in.
anytime they want.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby OneLoneClone » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 11:01:53

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('eastbay', 'T')he really cool thing about Livermore is that it's where America's nukes are designed and 'tested'.

That's really cool. 8O


I think the Lawrence Livermore Gatling Gun is what's cool about the place. I bet they imagine cranking up that gun whenever the protesters show.

gatlin gun for livermore

Image

sorry for the OT post
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby grabby » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 11:07:35

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tyler_JC', 'W')e will only start having society-collapsing problems when energy becomes physically unavailable at any price.



That's quite an astonishing claim.
I was alive and driving in the 70's and I can tell you there was not any gasoline available ANYWHERE AT ANY PRICE when you wanted it for WEEKS. and they were still producing the same amount as the year before.
Now explain that?

Just explain it, the production was the same, but suddenly there was no gas.

If today every american took 3 milk bottle, a 5 gallon bucket and a 5 gallon gas tank TODAY and filled it up to have extra gas, well then

we would be empty for a week.

that is what every one did.

Some people put gasoline into empty waterbead mattresses in the back of pickup trucks
no kidding.

the well was sucked dry for a long time.

the next event will leave you k as he said, WITHOUT GAS AT ANY PRICE no kididing.

and no relief in site.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby eastbay » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 12:16:17

ILP,

The Livermore lab has tours. They are highly 'abbreviated', however, and limited to a small area. I believe anyone can simply drop in and see the displays. If you happen to be driving by with an hour to spare it's quite interesting.

The gatling gun is not on display. You have to get lucky and see it as it moves by on patrol.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby grabby » Sun 08 Apr 2007, 12:38:12

Most of the people that work there are foreigners?
That is interesting. That is just weird.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby eastbay » Mon 09 Apr 2007, 01:34:07

No, not most of the people, possibly the majority of the nuclear physicists. There are many non-nuclear physicists employed at The Lab.
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Re: 75 Million Americans Pretending They Own Their Own Homes

Unread postby I_Like_Plants » Mon 09 Apr 2007, 01:35:57

I think you have a risk from non-foreigners too though.

You have people who believe in the Rapture.

You have people who become disillusioned.

Remember the Unibomber got a bad severe attack of sanity and saw the system for the enemy it is, from a position of being a trusted, tenured, math prof at Berkeley. He could have easily been working in Livermore if he were a physics rather than a pure math guy.
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