Climate scientists and others have in the past few years issued a steady stream of analyses showing that without immediate remedial actions, a disastrous future is headed our way. But is it a four-decade-old study that will prove prescient?
That study, issued in the 1972 book The Limits to Growth, forecast that industrial output would decline early in the 21st century, followed quickly by a rise in death rates due to reduced provision of services and food that would lead to a dramatic decline in world population. To be specific, per capita industrial output was forecast to decline “precipitously” starting in about 2015.
Well, here we are. Despite years of stagnation following the worst economic crash since the Great Depression, things have not gotten that bad. At least not yet. Although the original authors of The Limits to Growth, led by Donella Meadows, caution against tying their predictions too tightly to a specific year, the actual trends of the past four decades are not far off from the what was predicted by the study’s models. A recent paper examining the original 1972 study goes so far as to say that the study’s predictions are well on course to being borne out.
That research paper, prepared by a University of Melbourne scientist, Graham Turner, is unambiguously titled “Is Global Collapse Imminent?” As you might guess from the title, Dr. Turner is not terribly optimistic.
He is merely the latest researcher to sound alarm bells. Just last month, a revised paper by 19 climate scientists led by James Hansen demonstrates that continued greenhouse-gas emissions will lead to a sea-level rise of several meters in as few as 50 years, increasingly powerful storms and rapid cooling in Europe. Two other recent papers calculate that humanity has already committed itself to a six-meter rise in sea level and a separate group of 18 scientists demonstrated in their study that Earth is crossing multiple points of no return. All the while, governments cling to the idea that “green capitalism” will magically pull humanity out of the frying pan.
Four decades of ‘business as usual’
At least global warming is acknowledged today, even if the world’s governments prescriptions thus far are woefully inadequate. In 1972, the message of The Limits to Growth was far from welcome and widely ridiculed. Adjusting parameters to test various possibilities, the authors ran a dozen scenarios in a global model of the environment and economy, and found that “overshoot and collapse” was inevitable with continued “business as usual”; that is, without significant changes to economic activity. Needless to say, such changes have not occurred.
In the “business as usual” model, the capital needed to extract harder-to-reach resources becomes sufficiently high that other needs for investment are starved at the same time that resources begin to become depleted. Industrial output would begin to decline about 2015, but pollution would continue to increase and fewer inputs would be available for agriculture, resulting in declining food production. Coupled with declines in services such as health and education due to insufficient capital, the death rate begins to rise in 2020 and world population declines at a rate of about half a billion per decade from 2030. According to Dr. Turner:
“The World3 model simulated a stock of non-renewable as well as renewable resources. The function of renewable resources in World3, such as agricultural land and the trees, could erode as a result of economic activity, but they could also recover their function if deliberate action was taken or harmful activity reduced. The rate of recovery relative to rates of degradation affects when thresholds or limits are exceeded as well as the magnitude of any potential collapse.”
The World3 computer model simulated interactions within and between population, industrial capital, pollution, agricultural systems and non-renewable resources, set up to capture positive and negative feedback loops. Dr. Turner writes that changing parameters merely delays collapse. The current boom in fracking natural gas and the extraction of petroleum products from tar sands weren’t anticipated in the 1970s, but the expansion of new technologies to exploit resources pushes back the collapse “one to two decades” but “when it occurs the speed of decline is even greater.”
So how much stock should we put in a study more than 40 years old? Dr. Turner asserts that actual environmental, economic and population measurements in the intervening years “aligns strongly” to what the Limits to Growth model expected from its “business as usual” run. He writes:
“[T]he observed industrial output per capita illustrates a slowing rate of growth that is consistent with the [business as usual scenario] reaching a peak. In this scenario, the industrial output per capita begins a substantial reversal and decline at about 2015. Observed food per capita is broadly in keeping with the [Limits to Growth business as usual scenario], with food supply increasing only marginally faster than population. Literacy rates show a saturating growth trend, while electricity generation per capita … grows more rapidly and in better agreement with the [Limits to Growth] model.”
Peak oil and difficult economics
Rising energy costs following global peak oil will make much of the remaining stock uneconomical to exploit. This is a critical forcing point in the collapse scenario. And as more energy is required to extract resources that are more difficult to exploit, the net energy from production continues to fall. John Michael Greer, a writer on peak oil, observes that, just as it takes more energy to produce a steel product than it did a century ago due to the lower quality of iron ore today, more energy is required to produce energy today.
Net energy from oil production has vastly shrunken over the years, Mr. Greer writes:
“[T]the sort of shallow wells that built the US oil industry has a net energy of anything up to 200 to 1: in other words, less than a quart out of each 42-gallon barrel of oil goes to paying off the energy cost of extraction, and the rest is pure profit. … As you slide down the grades of hydrocarbon goo, though, that pleasant equation gets replaced by figures considerably less genial. Your average barrel of oil from a conventional US oilfield today has a net energy around 30 to 1. … The surge of new petroleum that hit the oil market just in time to help drive the current crash of oil prices, though, didn’t come from 30-to-1 conventional oil wells. … What produced the surge this time was a mix of tar sands and hydrofractured shales, which are a very, very long way down the goo curve. …
“The real difficulty with the goo you get from tar sands and hydrofractured shales is that you have to put a lot more energy into getting each [barrel of oil equivalent] of energy out of the ground and into usable condition than you do with conventional crude oil. The exact figures are a matter of dispute, and factoring in every energy input is a fiendishly difficult process, but it’s certainly much less than 30 to 1—and credible estimates put the net energy of tar sands and hydrofractured shales well down into single digits. Now ask yourself this: where is the energy that has to be put into the extraction process coming from? The answer, of course, is that it’s coming out of the same global energy supply to which tar sands and hydrofractured shales are supposedly contributing.”
It is that declining energy availability and greater expense that is the tipping point, Dr. Turner argues:
“Contemporary research into the energy required to extract and supply a unit of energy from oil shows that the inputs have increased by almost an order of magnitude. It does not matter how big the resource stock is if it cannot be extracted fast enough or other scarce inputs needed elsewhere in the economy are consumed in the extraction. Oil and gas optimists note that extracting unconventional fuels is only economic above an oil price somewhere in the vicinity of US$70 per barrel. They readily acknowledge that the age of cheap oil is over, without apparently realising that expensive fuels are a sign of constraints on extraction rates and inputs needed. It is these constraints which lead to the collapse in the [Limits to Growth] modelling of the [business as usual] scenario.”
New oil is dirty oil
The current plunge in oil and gas prices will not be permanent. Speculation on why Saudi Arabia, by far the world’s biggest oil exporter, continues to furiously pump out oil as fast as it can despite the collapse in pricing frequently centers on speculation that the Saudis’ pumping costs are lower than elsewhere and thus can sustain low prices while driving out competitors who must operate in the red at such prices.
If this scenario pans out, a shortage of oil will eventually materialize, driving the price up again. But the difficult economics will not have disappeared; all the easy sources of petroleum have long since been tapped. And the sources for the recent boom — tar sands and fracking — are heavy contributors to global warming, another looming danger. The case for catastrophic climate disruption due to global warming is far better understood today than it was in 1972 — and we are already experiencing its effects.
Dr. Turner, noting with understatement that these gigantic global problems “have been met with considerable resistance from powerful societal forces,” concludes:
“A challenging lesson from the [Limits to Growth] scenarios is that global environmental issues are typically intertwined and should not be treated as isolated problems. Another lesson is the importance of taking pre-emptive action well ahead of problems becoming entrenched. Regrettably, the alignment of data trends with the [Limits to Growth] dynamics indicates that the early stages of collapse could occur within a decade, or might even be underway. This suggests, from a rational risk-based perspective, that we have squandered the past decades, and that preparing for a collapsing global system could be even more important than trying to avoid collapse.”
Sobering indeed. Left unsaid (and, as always, there is no criticism intended in noting a research paper not going outside its parameters) is why so little has been done to head off a looming global catastrophe. Free of constraints, it is not difficult to quantify those “powerful societal forces” as the biggest industrialists and financiers in the world capitalist system. As long as we have an economic system that allows private capital to accumulate without limit on a finite planet, and externalize the costs, in a system that requires endless growth, there is no real prospect of making the drastic changes necessary to head off a very painful future.
Just because a study was conducted decades in the past does not mean we can’t learn from it, even with a measure of skepticism toward peak-oil fast-collapse scenarios. If we reach still further back in time, Rosa Luxemburg’s words haunt us still: Socialism or barbarism.
Apneaman on Fri, 1st Jul 2016 10:00 pm
A Season of Record Melt — Sea Ice Extent In Uncharted Territory For 94 Days
“From March 25th through June 26th, sea ice extent, as measured by Japan’s Arctic data system were in record low ranges. In other words, for about a quarter of a year, and according to this monitor, the Arctic Ocean and its surrounding estuaries have witnessed the lowest ice coverage ever measured for any similar period since record keeping began in the 1980s.”
“This new period of extreme sea ice record lows comes during a time of continuous decadal sea ice losses. Average sea ice coverage for each successive ten year period since the 1980s during the March through June period has fallen by about 400,000 to 500,000 square kilometers. For 2016, the new record lows widened this gap to more than 2 million square kilometers — or a surface area of sea ice coverage lost roughly equivalent the size of Greenland.”
“The upshot is that the sea ice state during early July doesn’t look quite as bad as it did during late May and early June. Chances for a blue ocean event in which Arctic sea ice volume exceeds an 80 percent loss since the late 1970s, in which sea ice extent falls below 1.5 million square kilometers, or sea ice area falls below 1 million square kilometers seems less likely by end Summer at this time.”
https://robertscribbler.com/2016/07/01/a-season-of-record-melt-sea-ice-extent-in-uncharted-territory-for-94-days-and-counting/
So, according to scribbys analysis it’s looking like the humans have a good shot at dodging or rather delaying the bullet this year. Big fucking bullet too. Not a certainty, but I’m desperate for good news to cheer y’all doomy MoFo’s up.
Apneaman on Fri, 1st Jul 2016 10:26 pm
😉
Bored on the Fourth of July
“Well, here we were, and it’s Florida, right, so we headed over the the Panhandle for some abbreviated Fun in the Sun. And eight beaches in the Florida Panhandle were closed because of elevated toxic fecal bacteria readings. Yeah, I didn’t know what that was either until a guy explained it to me. “The shit,” he said, “has hit the sand.”
http://www.dailyimpact.net/2016/07/01/bored-on-the-fourth-of-july/
makati1 on Fri, 1st Jul 2016 10:54 pm
Hahahaha! Thanks Ap. I needed a laugh.
I understand some kind of algae is also invading Florida’s beaches. I’m packing for a visit to the Police States of America next week, and Florida is my first stop. Had hoped to spend a day or two on the beaches around Daytona, but…
Then I’m off to PA and will try my luck at the lake I grew up near. The water there is creek fed from a State Park. Should be safe…r. ^_^
Not staying long. Back in the Ps in less than two weeks. May be my last trip to the States. We shall see. Anxious to see how much it had degraded since last year. Sounds like the beaches are trashed more than usual.
derhundistlos on Fri, 1st Jul 2016 11:03 pm
Well done as usual, Davy. I understand it has been a hot Spring and Summer in Missouri. I grew-up not far from Elsberry, MO. You should watch this YouTube clip I recently discovered: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1s8tyWDrAQ
Northwest Resident on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 1:17 am
“the early stages of collapse could occur within a decade, or might even be underway.”
Definitely, underway.
We have been living on debt since 1970, the point at which cheap easy-to-access American oil production peaked, and around the time that Nixon took America off the gold standard to enable massive debt creation.
They knew back then that the only way that America would be able to continue living beyond their means, to continue grotesque consumption and to continue the highly vaunted American Way Of Life was to put it all on the credit card.
Probably, back in 1970, the enthrallment with rapid technological development and the concept of cold fusion forever powering a constantly growing global economy was a dearly held belief, one that they bet the farm on. Too bad it hasn’t worked out.
Now, in the final stages of this 40+ year debt binge, the bills are about to come due and technology is most definitely NOT going to save us.
It looks like TPTB are going to drag this out for as long as they can, or it could be that they have a specific cut-off point in mind and they’re just trying to float the boat to whatever that cut-off point is. Either way, the jig is just about up.
Nice recap of how we exceeded our natural limitations and prolonged the day of reckoning at the following link. Some of the cornies will no doubt nitpick some of the numbers and assertions in this article, but the main theme is undeniable and falls under the category of “we hold these truths to be self-evident”:
Why The Collapse Of The U.S. Economic & Financial System Has Accelerated
https://srsroccoreport.com/why-the-collapse-of-the-u-s-economic-financial-system-has-accelerated/
Northwest Resident on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 1:37 am
“Global markets at this point seem rather convinced that a lot more QE is in the offing. Bond markets are confident that this liquidity deluge will have minimal lasting real economy impact. It’s a replay of 2007/08, when mortgage finance, global M&A and equities kept dancing, but safe haven bonds knew the party couldn’t last. Objectively, $12 TN of negative yielding bonds is about the strongest evidence I could have imagined that central bank inflationism and a multi-decade global Bubble are nearing the end of the line.”
End … of … the … line.
We are almost there.
http://creditbubblebulletin.blogspot.com/2016/07/weekly-commentary-greenspan-on-bubbles.html
Italian Holiday Maker on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 1:55 am
“Now, in the final stages of this 40+ year debt binge, the bills are about to come due and technology is most definitely NOT going to save us.”
Yes, there is going to be a financial Big Reset with savings largely whiped out, pensions and other handouts severely restricted. Not sure what technology has to do with it.
Expect huge social disturbances when the EBT system will go flat on its face.
https://youtu.be/zmINJq0GywE
Apneaman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 2:30 am
Yet another example of “them” not even pretending anymore. Given the ass fucking they have given the sheep over the last 35 years and gotten away with it, they must think they are invincible.
Major Political News Outlets Offer Interviews for Sale at DNC and RNC Conventions
“My impression is that paying for journalistically greased access to bigwigs is now routine,” says Todd Gitlin, a professor of journalism and sociology at Columbia University. “Journalists should be covering conventions. Selling access to their leadership strikes me as an invitation to corruption.”
https://theintercept.com/2016/07/01/convention-parties-lobby/
theedrich on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 3:06 am
The Saudis know their days are numbered. That is why they are pumping so furiously. It is another example of the battle between nature and politics. And the winner will be???
Given the biological imperative built into man — what Nietzsche called the “Wille zur Macht,” there is zero chance that politics-led BAU will be deterred from its path to self-destruction. That is why we are importing more muds into Whiteland, why Whites are being told to commit genosuicide so that the lower forms can take over. BAU über alles. It’s cheaper to use mud slaves to make toys. After all, we MUST have ever more toys to have more “growth.”
The U.S. population has ballooned in the last half-century, due to the politico-economically driven importation of ThirdWorld sludge “just looking for a better life” (sniff, sob). The demented wars launched by America’s “best and brightest” (especially of a certain Semitic persuation) manipulating their enthroned spokes-puppets are now funnelling even more lower primates (er, refugees) into what used to be a decent civilization. Unfortunately, the above article’s writer prefers to ignore the invariable consequences of the (Heeb) socialism he recommends. Maybe he should ask Venezuelans about those consequences. They, too, will soon be emigrating en masse from their workers’ paradise to Freebieland.
peakyeast on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 5:15 am
2020 is not collapse. That is the likely turning point for a number of the graphs. Collapse is in 2025-2030.
What the world is experiencing is the rapid depletion of the resource base.
JuanP on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 7:45 am
Ap “”And eight beaches in the Florida Panhandle were closed because of elevated toxic fecal bacteria readings.””
I remember when I was eight or nine years old and I lived in Montevideo, Uruguay. That was the first time I read in the newspaper that the shit was hitting the sand. I was horrified and went running to show my mother the article. My favorite local beach had been categorized as unhealthy to swim in. That was almost 40 years ago.
The solution was to build a longer pipeline to throw the raw sewage further offshore. Processing the sewage was never even suggested. That “solution” worked for a while and the bacterial count was reduced for many years though I never swam in those waters again. Now, the city has grown and the bacterial count is up again according to the latest measures.
I mostly summered in Punta del Este, which is 100 miles away from all that shit. The water there was pure when I was a kid because the city was much smaller and was basically empty ten months a year. By the time I was 16 the raw sewage being pumped out into the ocean there became too much and the pollution warnings started. The count would start going up in January, become unhealthy in February, and start coming down again in March after the tourist season was over. Now PdE’s year round population has increased and the problem is constant.
My country, Uruguay, continues pumping raw sewage on its beaches to this day and the situation keeps getting worse every year. We, humans, are truly repugnant, repulsive, disgusting creatures everywhere in the world. No place has been spared!
Apneaman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 1:34 pm
douchy, define the biological imperative however you like, but you can’t, in the same breath, single out a couple of races for the majority of the blame. Again you contradict yourself. You seem to want things both ways. You’re blaming a biological imperative AND mud slaves/lower forms/ThirdWorld sludge/primates AND the “best and brightest” AND a certain Semitic persuasion. Is there anyone else? Who are the blameless? You and those like you? You must be the ones who made up what “..used to be a decent civilization” – a fucking fantasy if there ever was one.
In part, I agree with Nietzsche. A biological imperative is at the root of the humans suicidal behavior – not in control. The current situation has played out a thousand times before both big and small and only the scale is unprecedented and so will be the final outcome – final being the key word for the humans. Each time it happened there were plenty of know nothings like you blaming it all on some other tribe. I get your pure racist hate, it is after all just an extreme form of tribalism, which is another biological imperative for group survival and is in the process of making it’s reappearance in it’s most destructive form. It was inevitable, but you’re still a piece of shit and a clown who tries to come off as being smart, but all you do is cherry pick pieces of science and combine them with pseudo science and a mixed bag of ideologies and cobble them all together to support your bunk scientific racism theory which is not scientific at all, but rather just your “emotions” looking to be confirmed. If you had any intellectual honesty you would be regularly checking for contradictions and confirmation biases in your thinking – something the weak of mind are incapable of.
Keep that hate alive douchy. It will come in handy someday, but not for you. Nothing is easier for the masters to harness and use for their own ends than the hate of weak minded fucking retards.
MSN Fanboy on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 5:37 pm
Apneman:Embrace The Hate. Its the only thing which will save Humanity.
makati1 on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 6:04 pm
MSN, how did you come to that conclusion? I see hate being one of the causes of someone pushing the nuclear button in the not too distant future. Humanities final end.
Hate, greed, ignorance, and fear are all contributing to the fucked up world we currently reside in. Whomever named humans “homo sapiens” had a sick sense of humor.
Homo sapiens: Origin – Latin, literally ‘wise man’. Oxford Dictionary
JuanP on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 6:26 pm
Mak, We, modern humans, are actually Homo Sapiens Sapiens, a subspecies of Homo Sapiens descended from Homo Sapiens Idaltu. We are, as best I can translate from my precarious Latin, the “men who know they know”.
Please correct me anyone if I am wrong.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatomically_modern_human
makati1 on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 7:00 pm
JuanP, yes, you are correct. That may be our problem. “WE know that we know” Arrogance?
My grandfather used to spend hours watching the monkeys when we visited the DC Zoo long ago. He said they reminded him of some people he knew. lol
claman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 7:13 pm
theedrichs, Your points of view migth be on the extreme side, but please keep them comming. Our society is for some reason willing to let inferiour people take over our democratic system, and they do have a lot of suppporters within our own ranks.
Keep on keeping on
onlooker on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 8:09 pm
Only a putrid morality would hate is our best option
onlooker on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 8:10 pm
Only a putrid morality would say hate is our best option
claman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 8:53 pm
Onlooker , A religion that hates us, is taking over Europe, and you say it’s us hating ?
onlooker on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 9:01 pm
Their wrong for hating but more hate is not the solution. That is all I am saying
claman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 9:09 pm
These people came to us seeking refugee from oppressive governments, and now they want to have sharia-laws that overrules local and national laws. I would say that these people could go back to where they came from .
Davy on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 9:13 pm
Onlooker, what about the hate on this board?
Kylon on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 9:36 pm
I’m not worried about global warming anymore.
At one time I was concerned with runaway global warming due to methane hydrates, and then I was more concerned about the problem of oxygen depletion in waters due to warmer temperatures causing the mass production of hydrogen sulfide gas during anaerobic respiration turning the whole world into a giant gas chamber.
I have a different perspective now.
There is a way to move the Earth slightly out of it’s current orbit, to an orbit slightly farther away from the sun, which in turn would cause the temperature to decrease back to what has been optimal for human civilization.
The practical options in doing this are beyond horrific in their application.
I won’t say what they are, in case some very very bad person might get some ideas.
Anyways, I think when push comes to shove and everything is breaking down the powers that be will use that as an opportunity both to grab more power, take more wealth, and implement the necessary (albeit horrific and evil) actions necessary to save the planet.
Afterwords they will use that as justification to maintain control for the next 1000 years.
So instead of looking to mass extinction we have to look forward to perpetual feudalism. But at least we aren’t going to go extinct.
It’s all a matter of perspective.
claman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 9:53 pm
davy, the hate on this board is some how an expression of peoples/individuals frustration about where society and/or climate is going.
I don’t mind people going ballistic as long as they are concerned. I don’t see it as hate, mabey just a kind of commitment
claman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 10:25 pm
Kylon Said :”So instead of looking to mass extinction we have to look forward to perpetual feudalism. But at least we aren’t going to go extinct.”
Kylon, that’s exactly what happened when the black death diminished the population in the fourteenth century. Congrats on a great prediction .
Apneaman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 11:36 pm
MSN Fanboy, I don’t need to embrace it, I was born with it – comes and goes.
Apneaman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 11:41 pm
claman, how do inferior people take over a superior people’s society if not by superior force or tactics?
If you have superior force and/or tactics than the other guy, does that not make you superior?
Maybe you should ask mother superior – she knows everything.
Apneaman on Sat, 2nd Jul 2016 11:54 pm
Because I care.
Playlist (10 TED talks): Apocalypse survival guide
-How we can make crops survive without water
-Creative houses from reclaimed stuff
-Why not eat insects?
-Open-sourced blueprints for civilization
-One seed at a time, protecting the future of food
-How to make filthy water drinkable
-Making sense of maps
-Turning trash into toys for learning
-Why we all need to practice emotional first aid
-10 ways the world could end
https://www.ted.com/playlists/334/apocalypse_survival_guide
There you go. Put that in your hopium pipe and smoke it kids.
Actually there was an 11th talk
-How to snare and prepare neighborhood pets
but for some reason it got pulled.
MSN Fanboy on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 2:29 am
You do not understand: Love drives good action: Good action means the humans survive, thrive and multiply. (From a human centric point of view – some say arrogance) Hate drives bad action: Death of Humans, Reduced Consumption, Stabilization of population. The only way to put the breaks on our own suicide is with hate and all it produces: Primarily death. Otherwise, as you all are so fond of saying: Mother nature will do it for us. I just want to hit the bottom with some form of civil society still in place.
theedrich on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 3:52 am
So the Chinkifying man-ape from Burnaby doesn’t like facts. How nice he wants more BAU and growth. His government is helping to solve the problem of Mud-caused planeticide by laundering more money for the yellow peril as it imports the billion-plus swamplanders with their squalid “culture” from East Asia. Undoubtedly he and his genosuicidal crowd enjoy seeing Hongcouver turned into another feces-filled sewer like Beijing. Perhaps he can even help the new “refugees” by hastening his own death to make room for them.
Apneaman on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 3:53 am
Really? How many humans have slaughtered other humans for love of their god and country?
theedrich on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 4:05 am
Well, apey, your beloved yellowmen destroyed 77 million of one another under Socialism’s Chink hero, Mao Tze-Tung, according to R. J. Rummel, professor emeritus of political science and a Nobel Peace Prize finalist. (See http://www.wnd.com/2005/11/33619/#!) But of course, only Whitey is guilty of anything in your sordid wetdreams.
Apneaman on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 4:59 am
douchy, I never said I was from Burnaby, I said I own rental property there. You should write these things down since you possess a below average memory. You know that memory and intelligence are correlated. Actually what I really enjoy seeing is Americas inbred white trash, aka you & yours, fall to pieces because “they” done took “our” jobs away. Take a good look at you people. Holy fuck, what a disgusting bunch of fat, pig faced, stupid, unaccomplished, drug addicted losers. Have you had your white trash heroin fix today douchy? It will help make you forget how big of a loser you are and have no future. How fucking stupid do you & yours have to be to constantly brag up merican capitalism, then when the capitalist who owns the job he is paying you to do, leaves the country for cheaper labour, y’all cry like babies. That’s how capitalism has always worked – fucking retards. I’ve already gone over the exhaustive list of collapsing America and how the majority of it is a self inflicted fatal wound – y’all bleeding out. You know these facts. Your denial of these facts are at the root of your anger, hate and misplaced blame. Looking in the mirror enrages you and so does the fact that you & yours are too cowardly to ever go after the real culprits. That would be those in charge. The politicians and their super wealthy sugar daddy’s. They make the decisions, not me and not some raggedy assed Mexicans staggering across the border looking for a low paying job most white trash can’t or won’t do. Lacking the courage to challenge power, you & your go for those will no real power. The cowards way. Why risk losing what few crumbs they still let you have?
Davy on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 5:29 am
Hate is what it is and will be. The older I get the more I feel the symptoms. I suspect that this personal change in me is because I have lost the idealism that comes with being young. I don’t actually embrace hate. It takes too much energy and is one of those emotions that is not productive. You can claim the benefits of hate but they are almost always short term. The benefits involve channelizing people or oneself in conquest in its many forms. Revenge is a great use for hate. People like to use hate as a tool when they feel the end justify the means. Usually hate will cancel out hate. My point is bad blood will kill off bad blood. I manly feel disgust. There are people here who hate me because I am American and not afraid to stand up for myself instead of being a wimp and accept what e assholes say about me. These assholes who are themselves hypocrites and wimps. How is that for hate? That is about as good as it gets out of me. The reason I mentioned hate on this board is you can’t pick and choose with hate. Hate is hate and should be looked at objectively. To justify it is to embrace it. Being subjective with hate is just deception.
claman on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 6:33 am
Apne: “claman, how do inferior people take over a superior people’s society if not by superior force or tactics?”
They take over by the sheer numbers, just like Zika virus, ebola and what ever comes in like a flood. I assure you it’s not brainpower that is in command here, just plain numbers .
Davy on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 7:17 am
Claman “superior people’s society”, please, define that BS so I can have a morning chuckle. The only one superior is nature. Society’s cycle and it is usually when they are in their so called “superior” state that they are in reality in a structural decline. They are in fact weakening and heading for a death. “Brainpower” is another misnomer. I would argue our society has used “brainpower” to destroy itself and others. I see nothing smart about society making poor choices with “brainpower”. In fact I would use a Taoist quote to sum up your comment “the clever will be deceived”. We are deceiving ourselves we are superior and smart. It is the smartest in our society that are the most deceived. That is a generalization but I see it dominating the social narrative today. You are deceiving yourself if you think your white developed society is superior and smart in an actual superior and smart sense. My point is life is full of paradoxes and civilization is one of them
claman on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 7:56 am
Davy, Our superiority consist in our ability to understand the severenes of the global situation.
Less superior people continue to reproduce at an ever escalating rate, while in the meantime not trying to understand growth factors and the unsustainability of their own situation.
Like Theedrich often says, they blame it all on the whiteys, and by golly we buy that and tell them that they do not have neither the blame nor the responsibility in the present situation.
THAT’S why they are not superior.
JuanP on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 8:07 am
Thee “… and a Nobel Peace Prize finalist.” You mean to tell me that this guy was even less peaceful than Obombo, the bomber? I wouldn’t care for anything he said or wrote then. You should quote really respectable sources, not institutional morons.
Davy on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 8:11 am
Claman, you are digging a hole. Who in our developed society “understands”. I see little difference in enlightenment between nations. Globalism has leveled that arena. The “primatives” may continue to reproduce without limits but we continue to consume without limits. There is little difference in the sustainability of either trend in the regards to collapse resilience.
claman on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 8:23 am
Davy: “I would argue our society has used “brainpower” to destroy itself and others. I see nothing smart about society making poor choices with “brainpower”. ”
That is so true, but it is also childish and not mature to cast of own responsibility when the situation is as severe as it seems today.
India, indonesia, the mddle east, africa and latin america continoues BAU when it comes to reproduction and the use of fossile fuels.
As I see it there is absolutely no generel understanding in those populations of this planets dire problems.
Chuckle if you wish
claman on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 8:34 am
Davy, Maybe I just don’t want my country(ies) overpopulated with foreign people who hate my life style.
Actually that’s what it’s all about. Chuckle 🙂
Davy on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 8:45 am
Claman, that is not the argument. I am not disputing BAU and the overpopulating developing world. The arguement is with your supirior white society not recognizing its contribution to overshoot through overconsumption. The developed world is just finding ways to consume more by thinking they are consuming less. This self denial and deception is not smarter. This is a systematic condition of denial wrapped in hypocrisy. IOW, Claman, we are no better. In fact since the developed world wrote the rule book it has a higher standard to live by and doesn’t.
Davy on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 8:49 am
Good chuckle. Why not say that in the first place. I don’t want any more people in my local. I don’t care if they are rich or poor. I want less people period. The worst thing now for most locals is more people. Overshoot is a nail in our coffin and more people mean more nails.
claman on Sun, 3rd Jul 2016 9:04 am
Davy:
“In fact since the developed world wrote the rule book it has a higher standard to live by and doesn’t.”
That was a good quote.
I even like this one :
“Overshoot is a nail in our coffin and more people mean more nails.”
Kenz300 on Mon, 4th Jul 2016 7:52 am
The worlds poorest people are having the most children. They have not figured out the connection between their poverty and family size. Endless population growth is not sustainable.
If you can not provide for yourself you can not provide for a child.
Birth Control Permanent Methods: Learn About Effectiveness
claman on Tue, 5th Jul 2016 3:12 pm
Kenz: Nature should be allowed to kill us all if we don’t fit into our local eco-system.
Christian guilt, and corporate third world business are preventing balance in nature.
Don’t stop malaria, ebola, yellow fever or whatever disiases that balances the human population.
It’s not popular but, as you say : They have not figured out the connection between their poverty and family size. Endless population growth is not sustainable.