Dear colleagues, we are having an interesting discussion on how to stop climate change and I think I could add some thoughts of mine on the basis of my recent work that I published in the form of the book titled “The Seneca Effect“.

The problem we have been discussing is how to limit emissions and we saw that it needs to be done fast and even drastically if we want to avoid the worse effects of climate change. Obviously, it is not easy. (image from Skeptical Science)

Most of what has been said today is based on a “top-down” approach, which I may also describe as supply-limiting. That is, we are speaking of a carbon tax, of emission limits, and the like – measures that governments should take in order to limit the production of fossil fuels. I don’t have to tell you that it is an effort that has been ongoing for several years and yet emissions keep growing. It doesn’t seem to work

So,  can we take the opposite approach? That is, look at the demand side in a “bottom-up” approach?

To discuss this point, let me introduce the concept of the “Seneca Effect” or the “Seneca Cliff.” Let me show the shape of the Seneca curve, drawing it on this board.

You know that I use the term of “Seneca Effect” taking inspiration from something that the Roman philosopher Seneca said long ago; “growth is sluggish but ruin is rapid”. And you see how the curve looks like the projections for emission reductions we have been seeing here.

So, the question is, what causes the collapse we see in the Seneca Curve in complex systems? Well, we can use system dynamics to model the collapse and we know it is not a “top-down” effect, nobody from outside forces the system to collapse. It is a very general phenomenon caused by the interactions of the various elements that compose the system which cooperate to bring it down. And that’s a trick that can be exploited: as I say in my book, “The Seneca Effect“, collapse is not a bug, it is a feature.

Let me see to explain it using the oil industry as an example: see the figure drawn on the board.

Now, you see the segmented line I drew, it keeps going up. It is what the oil companies expect for the future. Their projections, by Exxon for instance, say this: given sufficient investments, we can keep growing the oil production for a number of years, maybe a decade or more.

That’s what they have been doing; despite various dire warnings, the oil industry has been able to keep production growing. It is true that conventional oil (“crude”) peaked at some moment between 2005 and 2010, but it didn’t really decline. Then, the production of “all liquids” kept growing by exploiting other sources such as shale oil.

Of course, the problem is that if the industry continues to make an all-out effort to increase, or at least maintain, production, all we were saying about the need of reducing emissions goes out of the smokestack. Forget about keeping warming below 2 degrees. It would be a disaster.

But look at the Seneca curve, lurking in the graph. It may generate a collapse that would change everything. It would generate more or less the kind of rapidly declining production curve we need for our future survival

The industry doesn’t predict anything like that, but they are vulnerable, very vulnerable. They have a “soft belly” that may send them down the cliff, and very fast. It is the collapse of the demand. That is, we don’t need governments to enact draconian regulations: if the market for a product disappears, then the industry producing it will disappear. Can it happen? Yes, it can.

The key point of the industry’s vulnerability is in the need of large investments to keep the whole thing moving. Facing increasing production costs, they have been able to survive by growing and exploiting economies of scale. This has been possible because investors thought they were investing in a growing industry.

But things have been changing. Consider that typically a good 50% of the oil industry production is gasoline, to this you may add about 20% of diesel fuel and the result is that some 70% of the output of the industry is for internal combustion engines used for transportation.

So far, this has been a growing market, but the electric transportation revolution is coming, and not just that. There is a whole systemic change under the concept of “Transportation as a Service” (TAAS). The combination of the diffusion of electric vehicles and the optimization of the system may rapidly reduce the demand for gasoline and diesel fuel.

We don’t need a large reduction in the demand for transportation fuels to generate a spiral of decline for the oil industry: less demand means less production, less production means the loss of economies of scale, and the loss of the economies of scale means higher costs that translate into higher prices which also depress the demand. And so it goes until it reaches the bottom.

As Lucius Annaeus Seneca said, long ago, “ruin is rapid”. And the ruin of the oil industry is not a bad thing for the earth’s ecosystem and for us all.

Cassandra’s legacy by Ugo Bardi

236 Comments on "The Soft Belly of The Oil Industry: the Upcoming Seneca Collapse"

Cloggie on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:43 am 



Add to that the collapse of the car industry as well. TAAS will ensure that far fewer cars will be able to generate the same transportation performance:

https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/05/16/by-2030-you-wont-own-a-car/

At last a collapse to believe in.

____________________________________________ on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:09 am 



I guess you’re not familiar with ‘merica. They’ll have to pry those cold, dead asses out of those SUVs

Sissyfuss on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:32 am 



This article is filled with doom but somehow Ugo in his Yugo ameliorates the catastrophe into something warm and fuzzy.

rockman on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:45 am 



Not just in the US. In 1970 the Chinese bought 0.3% of global auto sales…in 2016 it was 30%. In 1970 US citizens bought 95X as many autos as the Chinese. In 2016 the Chinese bought more then 2X as many as Americans.

Apneaman on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 12:50 pm 



rockman. more of y’all princes of cancer lies exposed. Don’t pretend you don’t know about this either bullshitter.

Industrial Strength: How the U.S. Government Hid Fracking’s Risks to Drinking Water

A pivotal EPA study provided the rationale for exemptions that helped unleash the fracking boom. The science was suppressed to protect industry interests.

” Now, InsideClimate News has learned that the scientists who wrote the report disagreed with the conclusion imposed by the Bush EPA, saying there was not enough evidence to support it. The authors, who worked for a government contractor, went so far as to have their company’s name and their own removed from the final document.”

“Winning these exemptions is at the heart of a successful strategy by the fossil fuel industry and its allies in Washington to limit environmental oversight of companies’ operations. As a result, oil and gas drilling and production are exempt from laws regulating hazardous waste, chemical-laced runoff from well sites and toxic air pollution from well equipment. Some exemptions, such as the Halliburton loophole, were justified by EPA studies whose findings were ignored or bent to political ends, according to documents and interviews with scientists, lawmakers and former regulators who have worked on federal rulemaking since the late 1970s.”

https://insideclimatenews.org/news/16112017/fracking-chemicals-safety-epa-health-risks-water-bush-cheney

No honor, no morality – just greedy grabbing power hungry monkeys. Going by the responses on this board, it appears many do not believe your non stop lying rockman. You hurt people then lie about it to protect your, industry, money, social status and self image. Honest men have no need to defend themselves and what they do anywhere close to the level of what you and your cancer buddies do. I could not be like you. I do not knowingly hurt people for money & status then lie about it. I know can be an asshole at times and have always had a chip on my shoulder, but I brush my teeth every morning and I could not stand to look myself in the mirror if I was that kind of man. Humans are a mixed bag and you are one of the rotten ones. Oh I know you like to pretend you are one of the good guys because you get so much support in your group think social and industry circles, but y’all are just reinforcing each others lies same as drug dealers do, so they don’t have to feel shitty about the hurt it causes.

eugene on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 1:08 pm 



I find the venom at the oil industry a bit stupid. I knew, 50 yrs ago, that everything we see today was coming. The warnings were there and ignored by all. We all bought the cars, boats, big homes, etc, etc. The people I tried to tell laughed at or made fun of me. We ALL, and I mean all, played so lets stop the name calling, the senseless blaming rants and all the other crap I see on countless sites. All corporations lie. Ford sold Pintos that blew up. Firestone sold defective tires. All or nearly all advertising is filled with lies and misrepresentations. Selling is about lies. Lying is human nature. Lets grow up, accept responsibility and get on with it.

deadlykillerbeaz on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 1:47 pm 



Friday afternoon at quitting time is the top of the curve, the right side at the bottom of the Seneca Cliff is Monday morning, starts all over again and lasts five days.

Your weekly Seneca Cliff.

onlooker on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 2:50 pm 



What will truly bring down the Oil Industry is its inability to provide sufficient Net Energy to justify its continued operation

Roger on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 4:16 pm 



This is utter nonsense: “combination of the diffusion of electric vehicles and the optimization of the system may rapidly reduce the demand for gasoline and diesel fuel.” Well, at least he said “may” …

He’s correct about one thing though, the oil industry is headed for a Seneca collapse — it’s called “peak oil”. IMO, the aggressive infill drilling in Russia and the ME (as well as the steep decline rates in shale) guarantee an eventual Seneca collapse.

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 4:29 pm 



Correct, Onlooker. It is NET energy that runs the show, not price or number of barrels left.

onlooker on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 4:50 pm 



Good morning Mak. Oh and an early Happy Thanksgiving to you and your loved ones. Nice tall tale about us Americans getting along with the Indians, we were acting imperialistically even back then

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 6:05 pm 



“Nice tall tale about us Americans getting along with the Indians,…” Who said that? Not me.

BTW: I don’t celebrate Thanksgiving. It is not a holiday here.

onlooker on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 6:14 pm 



No, it is what the history books erroneously say.

onlooker on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 6:17 pm 



How about the soft belly of the global economic financial system
Trade Off: Financial system supply-chain cross contagion – a study in Global systemic collapse
http://www.feasta.org/…/trade-off-financial-system-supply-chain-cross-contagion-a-study-in...
by D Korowicz – ‎2012 – ‎Cited by 20 – ‎Related

onlooker on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 6:19 pm 



In section IV two reasons for a looming globally destabilising financial shock are broadly
outlined. The first is the outcome of decades of credit expansion and growing global
imbalances. The most perplexing thing so far in this crisis is that there has been neither the
anticipation of, nor the preparation for, a worsening of the crisis by those with most
responsibility for dealing with the consequences. The inbuilt dynamics of credit expansion,
debt deflation and the structure of the monetary and banking system make further
deterioration inevitable. The break-up of the Eurozone, as has been emphasised elsewhere, would be a devastating shock, and one for which we have scant preparation. This is not to
cast blame, merely to reflect on society’s inability to manage novel risks that threaten the
foundations of their welfare.
The second reason is the manifest risk that ecological constraints, expressed as peak oil
and food, are imminent. The casual retorts to such warnings are revealing. The assumption
that technology, market mechanisms or shale gas will save the day is made so often, with
such confidence and is backed by so little actual knowledge and expertise, that it leads one
to suspect that the interlocutors are expressing a cultural mythology rather than offering a
reasoned analysis. In addition, we are quite at a loss with respect to timing. These
constraints are emerging now. More grandiose plans, more targets or investment in
breakthrough technology, more well-meaning chatter about a green New Deal mostly miss
the point, firstly, because imagining is really not a substitute for reality, and secondly,
because in all probability, it’s too late. There is of course room for plenty of disagreement,
but good risk management can deal with a range of possibilities: it does not need certainty

Anonymous on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 6:20 pm 



Here is Bardi in 2013 predicting the peak of US gas. (Instead production rose substantially.)

http://cassandralegacy.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-shale-gas-revolution-is-it-already_7.html

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 6:21 pm 



Yes, it is more of the brainwashing Americans have been getting since day one. The US was founded on the blood of the natives and we have been spilling it everywhere in the world in the centuries since. It has enabled Americans to be ~4% of the world’s population and consume 25+% of the world’s resources. That is about to end.

American holidays have become nothing more than capitalist markets useful for selling junk to stupid people. Like “Black Friday”. Lemmings running over the cliff of debt.

JuanP on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 6:28 pm 



I used to like reading Ugo’s shit but after he published his book he became a liar. It doesn’t matter if oil demand slows or not. That won’t save the biosphere. Ugo understands that we are doomed but doesn’t want to face the consequences. He represents a type of doomer that can see the predicaments we face but can’t accept the implications because he can’t wrap his mind around human extinction. These doomers think that a fast collapse will save humanity but that won’t happen. Climate Change and Global Warming are just two of the many, many consequences of overpopulation and excessive consumption. What about soil erosion, desertification, ocean acidification, aquifer depletion, resource depletion, biological diversity loss, ecosystem destruction, urbanization, melding glaciers, and air, water, land, and sea pollution? Humans have been destroying the environment since they exist and they will only stop when extinct. The truth is that things will keep getting worse for us until the end and most people’s brains can’t handle this truth. It will NEVER get better, Ugo!

GregT on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 7:41 pm 



“Here is Bardi in 2013 predicting the peak of US gas. (Instead production rose substantially.”

Good find Nony. He’s probably equally as wrong about demand destruction saving humanity from runaway climate change. Fortunately for us old farts, the worst of the devastation will likely occur after we’re dead.

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 8:03 pm 



Greg, I think you are correct. No matter what happens to the economy, oil, or climate, we will be gone by the time the worse sets in. Maybe 20 years? The only thing that could change our live right now is a nuclear war.

The collapse in progress will just continue with a few quick drops and no recoveries, but mostly, just a slow unwind of our present lifestyle to something closer to the 3rd world. I’m stepping down voluntarily now, before the rush. I an now about half way, I think.

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 8:08 pm 



Juan, anyone who actually believes that humans will be around after 2100 is denying the real world around them. We probably passed any chance to change that at least 200 years ago when we started to use coal extensively.

What drug addict can go cold turkey and stay there after 200 years of shooting up? Answer: None. Ditto for FFs. The addiction will have to end in species death. Our species.

jh wyoming on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 8:14 pm 



Unfortunately it’s a conundrum. If we stop using FF it insures economic collapse and if we don’t the world keeps heating up and that forces collapse. The only way out of this predicament is if renewables actually replace FF, not just get added to the energy mix. But how do jets, cargo ships, tug boats, tanks, excavation equipment, mining equipment, drilling equipment, paving equipment run on Electricity? Diesel provides the necessary torque under tremendous loads that would quickly drain an electric source. So I don’t get how this transition moves beyond partial conversion.

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 8:54 pm 



GregT

Just because someone was wrong in the past does not mean they will be wrong in the future as well. You are arguing a fallacy. If you think everything will be fine till your dead then why the hell are you even here? And I dont mean that in a sense that I wish you gone or anything. I really am curious why you would waste your time on a doomer blog? For example I dont believe in God. So the last place you would find me is on a religious blog telling everyone that they were wrong about what they believed. The reason is because I really truly dont believe there is a god. So I dont need to argue with believers to reinforce my lack of belief. And here are four peer reviewed scientific studies done by top scientists in the world that all conclude a global collapse by 2030 give or take of course.

NASA Study: Industrial Civilization is Headed for Irreversible Collapse (Motesharrei, 2014)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0921800914000615

The Royal Society: Study, Now for the First Time A Global Collapse Appears Likely (Ehrlich, 2013)
http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/280/1754/20122845

Study: Limits to Growth was Right. Research Shows We’re Nearing Global Collapse (Turner, 2014)
http://sustainable.unimelb.edu.au/sites/default/files/docs/MSSI-ResearchPaper-4_Turner_2014.pdf

Study: Financial System Supply-Chain Cross-Contagion: in Global Systemic Collapse (Korowicz, 2012)
http://www.feasta.org/2012/06/17/trade-off-financial-system-supply-chain-cross-contagion-a-study-in-global-systemic-collapse/

Those are the reasons I believe we are doomed. And if you want to deny them like Madkat who was a freaking Mormon who used to wear magical underwear. Go right ahead….

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:12 pm 



MM, define: “Collapse”? What kind of collapse? How fast? And how will it affect the 3rd world people who do not use banks or even oil or electric?

Collapse is ongoing right now.
Has it ended the world? No.
Has it affected the 7.6B people very much beyond some tightening in the 1st word? No. Has it even touched the billion plus who live beneath the “poverty line”? No.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentage_of_population_living_in_poverty
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2046.html
https://www.compassion.com/poverty/poverty.htm

Be careful of your claims when you have nothing but bullshit to back them up.

BTW: Your last sentence proves your immaturity, child.

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:29 pm 



Madkat I would rather have bullshit to back up my claims then nothing at all like you..LOL That is the difference between us you believe you will be find based on faith and I believe you wont based on REASON. You are an enemy of reason….

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:31 pm 



Madkat

We have run out of cheap energy –oil companies are not replacing reserves – they are shutting down exploration — because the market will not accept 100 oil…. it collapses the economy. So what is going to happen is that the financial system is at some point going to collapse. It is the operating system of the global economy and our civilization.

They will do everything they possibly can trying to fend off another 2008 moment — they will print and stimulate and bail and loan…. they will use every bullet in the box …then they will throw the empty gun at this — then their will rip off the kitchen sink and throw it too.

I guarantee you they will do ‘whatever it takes’ to hold this moment off for as long as possible.But the moment will arrive — that is guaranteed.

And when it does there will be nothing left to throw — the shops will be looted and emptied — the electricity will go off… the violence and disease and suffering and starvation will follow. Global trade will completely stop — factories will close — spare parts to run the system will not be available — all energy sources will cease to operate — refineries will shut down — oil rigs will go offline — everything – and I mean everything will stop on a dime.

Then chaos will reign.

And you will be dead – I will be dead – and the central bankers will be dead.

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:37 pm 



MM, you have no idea of the definition of reason. You certainly do not practice it. You practice arrogance, immaturity and stupidity. You are no PHD unless the definition is “Piled higher and deeper”. Shit, that is. Did you miss your daily fix? LMAO

GregT on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:38 pm 



MM,

My comment was to Nony and his endless entourage of sock-puppets. There is a long history here, that you are obviously not privy to.

“And if you want to deny them like Madkat who was a freaking Mormon who used to wear magical underwear. Go right ahead….”

You are making yourself look like even more of a fool than you normally do.

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:48 pm 



Your picture of collapse and the after is pure US brainwashing bullshit. The world is not going to crumble and end when the oil stops flowing, which will be a long time from now.

The US is going down big time, but they are 4% of the world, not 100%. You will suffer because you will be forced to live on only the 4% you have in the US and can use. Not the 25% plus you have been consuming for the last 70 years.

Like Davy, you want the rest of the world to suffer like you will, but you are going to be disappointed. Oil can be pumped, refined and transported for a lot less $$ per gallon than it is now when the workers are paid less across the board and there is no skim off the top for people like you. You are going to sweat if you want to live. Sweat is no stranger to me.

I’m looking forward to the US war mongering country going down. I have billions of fellow cheerleaders just waiting on the bench with me. Some are Syrians. Some Libyans. Some Iranians. Some Koreans. Some Iraqis. Some Nigerians. Some Egyptians. Some Venezuelans. Some Ukrainians. Some Afghans. Some…. Get the picture?

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:52 pm 



BTW: I expect to have at least 20 years ahead of me. I plan to watch the world change as it has changed in my previous 73 years. The internet will be gone long before then. And that too is a good thing. The US will be a 3rd world country with a lower population and may be several different countries by then. We shall see.

Meanwhile, I will be tending my garden. watching the animals around the farm and enjoying life. No electric, no internet. No bills/debt. No other distractions. Just life.

GregT on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 9:58 pm 



“And when it does there will be nothing left to throw — the shops will be looted and emptied — the electricity will go off… the violence and disease and suffering and starvation will follow. Global trade will completely stop — factories will close — spare parts to run the system will not be available — all energy sources will cease to operate — refineries will shut down — oil rigs will go offline — everything – and I mean everything will stop on a dime.”

Mostly sounds about right. The sooner the better, for the future of mankind, and the rest of life as we know it on planet Earth.

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:13 pm 



Madkat

When the oil starts to run short countries that export will no longer be doing that. And countries that import will use their armies to attack the exporters. And it will be one hell of a show..Trust me when I tell you this…THIS WORLD WILL BURN….

PS. I don’t care if you think I am young I am only 30 years old. But I was a stat chess champion in high school. I worked my way through college at AT&T where I was the number one sales person in the entire state of Michigan for two years in a row. Every single month I beat every single sales person out of hundreds. So I can assure you I am no fucking dummy. And my first job was at 14 years old working in the corn fields of Indiana because my parents struggled to make ends meet…The last thing in the world I want to happen is a collapse. I still have more then half of my life left. And I dont believe in god so I believe this is my one and only lifetime I get…But what I want to happen and what the evidence says are two different things…And I understand that by the time limits to growth was published it was already way to late to turn back and change. We couldn’t really stop consuming or the world economy would have collapsed…So I don’t feel its anyone’s fault in general its just the way things turned out…And I am at least thankful I made it through my 20’s and have accomplished many things and have had many great times in my life…I wish I was like you and I could just ignore facts and be willfully ignorant on purpose. But that is not how my brain is wired my mind changes with evidence….Now I have gave you several of reasons for why the collapse is coming and will be global. You have gave me no reasons for why it will be strictly a western collapse. But I understand you can talk yourself into believing anything you want without any proof. That is how crazy people think. But the final score is MM 4 Madkat 0…End of story

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:17 pm 



GregT

99 percent of all species have gone extinct well before humans even evolved. We didn’t do that..And you would like to see your own species die off to protect the other species? That seems very odd.

onlooker on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:17 pm 



MM, you are a rich world citizen afraid because modern industrial civilization is all we have known in rich countries. Its downfall will initiate fatalities among some rich world citizens mostly the old, infants and the infirm. The rest of us will endure albeit under much more frugal and primitive circumstances

GregT on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:22 pm 



Have you been drinking tonight MM?

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:47 pm 



Onlooker, you can never get the FACTS thru American brainwashing if they say anything other than the US is “indispensable/exceptional”. It is burned in too deep. That the rest of the world might just manage to go on after the US is gone is unfathomable to them. They will have to find our for themselves. That 4×4 of reality is really going to hurt when it smacks them cross the face and drives them to their knees.

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:48 pm 



Greg, I suspect it is more than alcohol.

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:49 pm 



You have to stand in awe at the delusional people on this blog..I post several reasons why the whole world is going down soon. And everyone says no it will be fine here and there because I say so..No reason is even needed and all the reasons to the contrary are ignored. Oh here is another study I forgot make that FIVE reasons now to the naysayers ZERO…And this was a secret study that you were not supposed to learn about. so that is bonus points. LOL

German Military (leaked) Peak Oil study concludes: oil is used directly or indirectly in the production of 90% of all manufactured products, so a shortage of oil would collapse the world economy & world governments
https://www.permaculture.org.au/files/Peak%20Oil_Study%20EN.pdf

GregT on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:51 pm 



MM,

Many of the people who post here reached the stage that you are at now, quite some time ago. It has been over 15 years for myself.

There is nothing that you have said above, that many here do not already understand. IOW, you are preaching to the choir. However, the situation is not quite as cut and dry, or as simple as you make it out to be. Sometimes it is better to listen, than it is to speak. Especially to people who have already made plans to weather the storm, so to speak. Makati1 would be one of those people, and so would I.

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:54 pm 



Mm, if you are only thirty years old. You have no perspective to judge much of anything. Double than, if you live that long, and then you might see what we “oldsters” already understand about life and living. You only have the brainwashing you have received in the US “brainwashing” system. A “snowflake” with no experience in the real world.

Get married. Work for a living. Raise a family and provide for them for 30 years and then come back. We can discuss reality when you have experienced it for a few decades.

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 10:57 pm 



Greg

There is no way to weather the storm. That is why the prepper communities are almost entirely right wing uneducated hicks. Without a prosperous society and the rule of law in place. Goons will take whatever you are growing in your garden or hiding in your house…Just try to be a prepper or homesteader in a place like Syria for example. Once the goons see smoke coming from your prepper chimney they will know that you most likely have food, water, and woman. And they will want all three for their taking. And you will stroke out while they breed your daughters,wife,sisters right in front of you.

GregT on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:01 pm 



“You have to stand in awe at the delusional people on this blog..I post several reasons why the whole world is going down soon.”

I have been saying what you are saying now, since around the time you were born MM. It is you who is the delusional one here.

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:03 pm 



Madkat

The human IQ peaks around age 25 then goes into permanent decline. You are well, well past peak. Also you inhaled lead in your gasoline for several decades which also lowers the IQ substantially. And I am still sharp as ever..And experience makes a lousy teacher because hindsight is always 20/20. I promise you I know more about this collapse then you know about anything. You don’t even have any evidence ie Reason. To argue your position. None. You just have blind ignorance and foolish faith. Don’t you think all the studies I provided factored in the concept that some areas of the world use less resources etc. DUH…And they still concluded it would be a world collapse. But I know Madkat what do the Doctors and experts know anyways. they are all just brainwashed and you are so clear minded with your tyler durden written articles from zerohedage and the organic prepper…LOL

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:04 pm 



MM, I respect your working yourself thru college, but, do you think chess or a piece of paper will get you food when the SHTF? Do you think a sob story will? Not in your scenario or mine.

If you do not have a survival skill you will be expendable. Your elders will hold the few jobs you qualify for. It’s called seniority/experience. I hope you are preparing for that day and do not have much debt.

If that sounds harsh, it was meant to be. The real world is harsh. Mean. Unfair. Survival of the fittest. If you can do that, you may reach my age, but not in a world like today. I suggest that you get a few survival skills under your belt.

BTW: We agree on one point. “I dont believe in god so I believe this is my one and only lifetime I get.” You may not be so dumb after all. Now use your intelligence prepare so you do not have to suffer as much as your denial neighbors. I would suggest dumping that arrogant/know-it-all attitude first thing. It can get you killed.

Makati1 on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:15 pm 



MM, read the last two sentences of my last post.

Then dump that scholastic bullshit. Is Stephan Hawkins stupid because he is older (He is two years older than me, 75) You have been fed bullshit so long you don;t even notice the taste.

I am still learning new things every day. I have been for some 26,500+ days so far. My life has been a constant learning experience. I can do plumbing, carpentry, masonry, gardenia, farming, animal husbandry, cabinet making, cooking, butchery, engineering/design/estimating, child rearing, public speaking, firearms use, and on and on. History buff. ecology buff. I can driver most vehicles, wheeled and track. I have visited at least 10 countries all over the world including Dubai in the UAE. And on and on. You learn a lot if you have intelligence and have live 73 years.

GregT on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:44 pm 



“Once the goons see smoke coming from your prepper chimney they will know that you most likely have food, water, and woman.”

The goons aren’t nearly as intelligent as they believe that they are.

MASTERMIND on Sun, 19th Nov 2017 11:56 pm 



GregT

Its not about intelligence or quality with goons its about quantity. They have strength in numbers.

Cloggie on Mon, 20th Nov 2017 12:03 am 



Wonderful news from Germany!

Merkel failed to build her prefered government:

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/jamaika-sondierungen-fdp-brechen-eigenen-angaben-zufolge-gespraeche-ab-a-1179250.html

She is in great difficulties and her downfall is near. She is the most important vassal the US currently has in Europe and as no other is she responsible for the immigration disaster and deterioration of relations with Russia.

The AfD has said that it is willing to tolerate a CDU/FDP minority government, provided Merkel packs her bags. This is not as far-fetched as is seems.

GregT on Mon, 20th Nov 2017 12:05 am 



“They have strength in numbers.”

The only numbers around here, are all members of a strong local community.

GregT on Mon, 20th Nov 2017 12:07 am 



“and deterioration of relations with Russia.”

I thought Angie and Vlad were old friends?