World War 1 All Over Again

21 Comments on "World War 1 All Over Again"

Davy, Hermann, MO on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 2:27 pm 



Anytime I hear these individuals or individuals here on this message board blame and complain I get turned off. It makes me sick to hear ideology and propaganda on both sides. It is just what will prevent a coherent effort to mitigate the coming decent. So much energy is being invested in this line of thinking. It reminds me of a marriage where the problems fought over are secondary to the emotions of the marital conflict itself. IOW the emotions of the battle are what matters. This is the case in civil wars where revenge and destroying the enemy are more important than the spoils. If we have any chance going forward we will have to reject these individuals as mad which they are. They are mad with emotions and self-righteousness. I do not discount the sins of my country the US. I see no country thrust into the position of super power doing much different. What is the Europeans were not bent on destroying themselves? What if psychologically mad Stalin had not chosen world domination of communism? Where would the US be now? The story is always more complex. This guy has a different point that could be palatable if he was not such a smuck. I do like his opening quote:

“If you reduce the lie to a scientific system put it on thick and heavy, and with great effort and sufficient finances scatter it all over the world as the pure truth, you can deceive whole nations for a long time and drive them to slaughter for causes in which they have not the slightest interest.”

I would use that quote in regards to globalism and the Ponzi scheme of debt Wall Street and its fellow contemporaries are following in the economic destruction and wealth transfer policies of the new normal. The slaughter is the social fabric and environmental support system for the rich few, corporate interests, and corrupt political patrons at the expense of all the rest. The cause is pseudo growth for the rich but not growth for everyone. It is in reality advancement of the wealthy few at the expense of most of the rest of the world’s population.

Makati1 on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 2:45 pm 



“It is in reality advancement of the wealthy few at the expense of most of the rest of the world’s population.”

Nothing new under the sun. This has been the norm since we began farming and there was surplus for the formation of a ruling class. Not going to change now.

DC on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 3:13 pm 



Well, then, its a good thing this world has many clear-headed, honest thinkers,Like Paul Roberts and others, unencumbered by the false binary thinking that every topic, or issue has but two sides, where one always obligated to strike up a false ‘balance’ in the name of ‘fairness’. Sometimes, the ‘other’ side is just plain wrong.

“The crimes of the United States have been systematic, constant, vicious, remorseless, but very few people have actually talked about them. You have to hand it to America. It has exercised a quite clinical manipulation of power worldwide while masquerading as a force for universal good.” -Harold Pinter, Nobel Acceptance Speech

“Obama is just a willing executioner. From the ruling class’s point of view, he’s the perfect figurehead because his mere appearance confuses and disarms so many. He seems to have spent his whole life trying to get chosen to play Judas. And that’s all there is in his resume.” -bevin, Comments line, Moon of Alabama

From Mike Whitney, full article below

http://www.counterpunch.org/2014/03/14/obama-the-willing-executioner/

Davey on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 3:38 pm 



DC, took it hook line and sinker. Ha

Northwest Resident on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 3:55 pm 



“Washington’s coup in Ukraine…” False premise. What “coup”?

“Obama and Kerry have been advised by the idiots that comprise the US government that Russia will surrender and accept Washington’s will if Washington is sufficiently insistent.”

Have they? And how does Paul Roberts know this? What proof does he have? Or, is this just more of the ideologically driven speculation that Paul Roberts cooks up to feed to his adoring admirers because it fits exactly what they want to believe?

“Obama is just a willing executioner.” Is he? Is Obama personally executing anybody? Does Obama have the authority to stop the drone killings, or is he merely a figurehead and sometimes eloquent spokesman for a power structure that merely includes the U.S. Government and is much larger than Obama or any other single politician? Is Obama under direct threat to not rock the boat, to play along, or else? Or is he in fact an enthusiastic and joyful participant in each and every U.S. Military operation that results in collateral death? The issue and the questions go much deeper than the regurgitators of simplistic one-liners care to admit.

We are being treated to a speculative and hyped up three ring media circus in regard to what is happening in Ukraine. Every bozo and every talking head in the world now has their chance to pontificate, to speculate, to try to tie all the “what we do knows” into one grand jigsaw puzzle made up of speculations, lies, ideological inclinations and some facts, then hold it up as “the truth” for anyone naive enough to believe it is “the whole truth”.

The real truth is that Ukraine has long been a divided country with Russian-speaking and primarily ethnic Russians one side (including Crimea), and with non-Russian speaking and primarily non-ethnic Russians on the other side. One side is comfortable staying in the sphere of Russia and they intend to do so, the other side desperately wants OUT of the sphere of Russia and into the European sphere with which they more heavily identify.

If I was the leader of Russia and I knew that economic collapse on a grand scale was coming on fast, along with all the social tension and strife that is sure to accompany that collapse, I would NOT want to have to deal with a civil war between two separate ethnic groups in Ukraine. And if I was Germany or some other country bordering Ukraine, I would NOT want to have that civil war being waged on my border. Maybe the goal is to solidify borders in preparation for the coming collapse, and everything we see is just a plan-in-action to accomplish that goal. Pure speculation on my part, of course, my speculation is every bit as good as Paul Roberts’ speculation, just not as ideologically driven.

bobinget on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 4:52 pm 



If we do get entangled in another oil war it will be over defending ‘our’ Mideast Oil, Not distraction in Ukraine. US interests in the Syrian humanitarian disaster far out weigh apparent Russian territorial concerns.

In point of fact, neither Russia or the US can afford a major war.

Old USSR departed Afghanistan after spending two billion dollars, its puppet government lasted two years.
The Afghanistan and Iranian adventures will end up costing US two TRILLION dollars, leaving behind nothing but death and chaos. Who will lend either the US or Russia war funding? China? Japan?

While the world’s dwindling attention span scans
news of Ukraine and Crimea, the Syrian bloodbath anguishes ahead. Russian and Iranian arms, funding government forces are making serious gains left and right. So called Islamic fighters, sick of losses and
overwhelming opposition are returning home to unwelcoming governments fearful of their new fighting skills.

Assad has even stopped chemical weapons deliveries behind this theater play called ‘A Russian Invasion’.

IOW’s the Syrian war is being wound up by Iran and Russia under cover of Ukrainian, Crimea, drama.

Russia, Iraq, Venezuela, Ecuador, Qatar, Syria, Iran form the nucleus of a New OIL and GAS cartel.
(note the anti American bias)
This leaves nuclear tipped KSA dependent on the US or, we on them depending…

(Nigeria Africa’s most populous, poorest oil giant, in turmoil, may soon request US or Chinese military intervention to quell Islamic Terrorists reaping hellish murders almost daily on Christian populations in NW Nigeria.

Sorry guys, no WW/3. Same old, same old. It’s ALWAYS about OIL. It may appear to be about RELIGIOUS differences… In the Ukraine, Syria, Master Putin is playing religious, nationalistic, disparity cards to mask RESOURCE ambitions.

paulo1 on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 5:44 pm 



One thing I found really interesting today, about Ukraine and about PO, was the drivel drooled by Senator McCain today on State of the Nation with CNN’s Candy Crowley. He had just returned from another one of his grandstanding fact finding missions to ‘see what he can do’ and what should be done. He stated, and I paraphrase, that it is high time the US used its vast surplus of oil…exportable oil, to punish Russia and influence events in the world to America’s favour.

I saw this with my own eyes and heard these words with my own ears. In fact, as I watched him interviewed I waited for it to be spoken because I heard him utter it about Syria.

Okay, here is a guy who actually ran for the Presidency. He is a senior senator. I think he is a nice guy and is sincere. I like him. My questions are: is he simply this stupid? Does he believe in what he says? And who advises him as to the state of America’s energy situation?

If he had chosen a different running mate he might have done much better in his election bid, and could have perhaps taken another shot in 2012. He and his advisors chose Sarah Palin which doomed him in hindsight. Regardless, I am astounded that such a public figure believes and states such wrong information. God help us all. It is unbelieveable. I hope he is still alive when the obvious plateau turns to decline. I suppose he will blame it on the EPA and the reluctance to allow drilling. It is depressing.

Paulo

rockman on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 6:12 pm 



A rather harsh analysis but some valid points IMHO. But it suffers from the same incompleteness most rebukes contain. Fine to say that Country A should not have done X or threatened Y or sanctioned Z or etc. OK…fine. So what should be done? What’s the better solution? And that’s perhaps the biggest mistake IMHO: assuming that there is some viable solution. IOW back to the distinction between problems, for which there may be a solution and predicaments for which there are no solutions but just better and worse responses.

IMHO there is no “solution” with the situation between the Ukraine and Crimea. Just as the original decision to give Crimea to the Ukraine wasn’t a solution to the situation at the time. It was just a “response” to the predicament at the time. On might argue not dissimilar to establishing the state of Israel. The history since then would seem to clearly indicate it wasn’t a solution to the problems between the Arab and Jewish populations.

Back to the point: folks are debating what’s the correct “solution” needed to fix the problem with the Ukraine. I see no logical “solution”. Just some very poorly thought out responses and some that are as dangerous as they are foolish. Of course it’s not uncommon for poor responses to be meet with equally (or worse) counter responses. OTOH isn’t that exactly how many wars have started? Perhaps it’s just human nature so why f*ck with tradition? LOL.

Arthur on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 7:17 pm 



This brand new article by PCR is better than the lead article:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/washington-has-set-the-world-on-a-path-to-war/5373623

According to the latest results, the Crimeans voted 93% for return to Russia. That’s a done deal then. Wednesday the Rubel will be introduced and before March is over the Crimea wiill be back where it belongs: back in Russia.

Obviously Washington and their EU satraps are not going to accept the result (f*** democracy), because the conflict with Russia was the goal all along. Obviously a violent overthrow of a legitimately democratically elected government (however corrupt) is without problems, according to the West.

PCR: Washington Has Set The World On A Path To War

Indeed. We have to face the fact that there is no way we can avoid WW3, it is the only way for Washington to achieve their world empire, in the works for over a century.

But at the same time, this is the chance for us Europeans to escape from Washington, liquidate the West and change sides to Russia.

We’ll pick up the European/Constitutionalist parts of the US later.

Davy, Hermann, MO on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 7:41 pm 



Arthur said – Obviously Washington and their EU satraps are not going to accept the result (f*** democracy), because the conflict with Russia was the goal all along. Obviously a violent overthrow of a legitimately democratically elected government (however corrupt) is without problems, according to the West.

The difference Arthur is Russia took control and then had a referendum. The Ukrainians changed their governments and it was an Ukrainian event. It does not matter the West influenced it. Are you naïve to think Russia was not doing their own influence? If an agreement would have been made between all parties to have a Crimea referendum with Russian soldiers in barracks then I am sure the issues would have been acceptable. I still think Crimea belongs to Russia by history and majority ethnic makeup. The West should accept the new status quo and move on before they shoot themselves in the foot. Russia will have plenty to pay for and this will occupy them plenty. Russia will be busy taking care of the Crimea and not trouble making in international affairs. The Russian economy is already suffering.

Arthur said – Indeed. We have to face the fact that there is no way we can avoid WW3, it is the only way for Washington to achieve their world empire, in the works for over a century.

Arthur I wish I could bet you money on WW3 not happening. This is a serious situation and I hope cooler heads will prevail.

Arthur said – But at the same time, this is the chance for us Europeans to escape from Washington, liquidate the West and change sides to Russia.
We’ll pick up the European/Constitutionalist parts of the US later.

Arthur have you been hangin out in the Hash bar in Amsterdam today for lunch or maybe harder stuff. It really sounds like you may be experimenting with acid or mushrooms when I read the above???!!!@@@

Chris Hill on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 7:45 pm 



The U.S. getting involved in a war over this is about as likely as the idea of the U.S. getting involved in Syria. Politicians can yammer all they want to, but I think the idealism at least as far as foreign entanglements go, is dead in this country. We may make promises before the fact, but nothing meaningful will be done from this quarter.

baptised on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 7:45 pm 



“Poor man wants to be rich, rich man wants to be king, king wants to rule everything.”

noobtube on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 9:41 pm 



One EMP detonation over the United States will finish the entire country and its worldwide military (and arsenal of nukes).

No nuclear response. No nothing.

All the United States can do at this point is run their mouths.

There is no credible threat to the Russians from the United States.

J-Gav on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 11:10 pm 



Noob – “There is no credible threat to the Russians from the United States.”
I don’t always agree with you but that is, in my view, correct. Some grand-standing going on here.

Davy – You’ve got a lot going for you but I find you’re a bit thin-skinned on critiques vis-à-vis the US sometimes. I don’t know if I’m included in your ‘blamers and complainers’ category but I’d like to make a point or two clear. Critiquing policy formulated by elites who don’t give a damn about their populations is not tantamount to a condemnation of an entire people, nation or culture. Nor is placing blame where it belongs futile. E.g., Ignorance is not a crime – those who signed onto the liar loans of the 2008 housing crash were naive, perhaps even dumb. Those who offered those loans were criminal. Not the same thing. See where I’m going? Let’s not condemn pointing out flagrant mafia-like activity in the name of some blame/complain national sensitivity. Beyond that, I totally agree that there is no other country which would be doing much better as ‘imperial master’ these days. A good indication that that model needs to dispensed with.

Arthur on Sun, 16th Mar 2014 11:44 pm 



The difference Arthur is Russia took control and then had a referendum. The Ukrainians changed their governments and it was an Ukrainian event.

There never was a grand scale Russian invasion in the Crimea. The Russians were by treaty allowed to have 26,000 soldiers on the Crimea and it is unlikely that that number was ever surpassed. The referendum was organized by local pro-Russian forces, not Russians.

The ‘Ukrainians’ don’t exist and did not take-over the Ukraine. Remember that Yanukowitsch had 48% during the last elections, but his supporters did not get money from Nuland, only those forces that were anti-Russian.

Are you naïve to think Russia was not doing their own influence?

Do you doubt the outcome of the referendum? I don’t.

I still think Crimea belongs to Russia by history and majority ethnic makeup. The West should accept the new status quo and move on before they shoot themselves in the foot.

Hear, hear, totally agree.

Arthur have you been hangin out in the Hash bar in Amsterdam today for lunch or maybe harder stuff. It really sounds like you may be experimenting with acid or mushrooms when I read the above???!!!@@@

I have never smoked a cigarette in my life, let alone heaver stuff. I am amazed that you seem to think that the coming global developments (end of $ reserve currency and resource depletion) will leave the US untouched. The only thing that really is exceptional about the US is the extraordinary luck the US had during the second half of the 20th century. It was the exceptional level of wealth that enabled Washington to ‘pay away’ the differences between very diverse population groups. Once that hidden subsidy will be eliminated, expect the ‘melting pot’ to become a Boston style pressure cooker and possibly fall apart. There is no difference between Ukrainians, Russians, Yugoslavs, Syrians, Iraqis… and Americans.

During the thirties thousand of Anglo’s, with prominent representatives like Hemingway and Orwell, were fighting in Spain to help the Stalinist cause against the Catholic nationalists. In similar fashion I can very well imagine scenario’s where thousands of European mercenaries will fight to support Constitutionalists in their struggle to preserve liberty on American soil (“Alex Jones types”) against a Washington that wants to establish a Soviet style tyranny. The “Ron Paul Revolution” and Tea Party were small signs of things to come.

And hey, without the French and the Dutch you would never have achieved independence in 1783:

http://www.amazon.com/First-Salute-View-American-Revolution-ebook/dp/B0053CSRDW/ref=sr_1_1

In The First Salute, one of America’s consummate historians crafts a rigorously original view of the American Revolution. Barbara W. Tuchman places the Revolution in the context of the centuries-long conflicts between England and both France and Holland, demonstrating how the aid to the American colonies of both these nations made the triumph of independence possible.

It seems unlikely that you can regain a second period of independence (this time not from the British but from AIPAC-Washington) without foreign support, again.

Yeti on Mon, 17th Mar 2014 12:03 am 



“One EMP detonation over the United States will finish the entire country and its worldwide military (and arsenal of nukes).”

Well, not to belabor you with details about “hardened” communications channels or the protocols that kick into place for a situation that has been war-gamed extensively, let’s just hope that the Russians have maintained a cadre of rational professionals within their strategic nuclear command and haven’t let a culture of chest-thumpers take root that have started believing in the feasibility of a decapitation strike.

Davy, Hermann, MO on Mon, 17th Mar 2014 12:15 am 



Gav said – bit thin-skinned on critiques vis-à-vis the US sometimes. I don’t know if I’m included in your ‘blamers and complainers’ category but I’d like to make a point or two clear. Critiquing policy formulated by elites who don’t give a damn about their populations is not tantamount to a condemnation of an entire people, nation or culture.

Yea, probably should chill a bit with the folks here that are after the leadership and not the masses. Good point because I am not going to change some of the anti-American folks here and it gets repetitious.

Makati1 on Mon, 17th Mar 2014 2:25 am 



@paulo, McCain was meant to lose. Palin was chosen because they knew she was an idiot and would take down McCain’s chances. Obama was packaged as the next President long before election day. He has never had a serious opponent in either election. He is the ‘democratic’ black man who can take down the social safety nets without a huge backlash … or so they believe. You do not choose the President, “they” do.

Makati1 on Mon, 17th Mar 2014 2:28 am 



Yeti, I think it is not only still possible, but an inevitable event. But, I think the first nukes will be from the US, not Russia or China. Either way, we will not see 2030 without a nuclear exchange beforehand. (Waiting for the backlash against my scenario.^_^)

paulo1 on Mon, 17th Mar 2014 3:08 am 



Well Mak.

No backlash from me, but will disagree. I think the economic threats will backfire and start a real worldwide mess/decline before any shots are fired. But after that, who knows who will be scapegoated? If things get ugly at home all countries will have their hands full. Just a simple guess.

Having said this, with this crazy stock market still defying any sense of reason it will probably go up with the hand rubbing prospects of weapons needing to be built.

Paulo

Davy, Hermann, MO on Mon, 17th Mar 2014 12:41 pm 



Makati1 said – Yeti, I think it is not only still possible, but an inevitable event. But, I think the first nukes will be from the US, not Russia or China. Either way, we will not see 2030 without a nuclear exchange beforehand. (Waiting for the backlash against my scenario.^_^)

Yeap, Makati, Nuk use is about as likely as world peace and prosperity. Sure it is possible and it makes great “chest thumping” by ultra-nationalist but it is not reasonable or likely. Nuks are past their useful life in a still normal world as an effective tool. If we have a total collapse then I buy your argument but there is no reason to single out the US over any other nation.