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What an Afghanistan Victory Looks Like Under the Trump Plan

What an Afghanistan Victory Looks Like Under the Trump Plan thumbnail

Shortly after President Trump’s speech, a retired Afghan general recalled a Taliban fighter who had taken up arms after six of his sons were killed, one by one. The same AK-47 was handed down to each.

Then the father was killed.

“You don’t make peace with people like that,” said the retired general, Abdul Jabbar Qahraman, a combat veteran and Parliament member who comes from Helmand Province, the heart of the Taliban insurgency. “You also don’t win by killing them, there are always more.”

After nearly 16 years of war, America’s longest, the Taliban are not only far from defeated, they are gaining ground. They also have evolved into a more tenacious foe than the one routed in 2001, making a United States military triumph seem more remote.

Ever since 2008, when Adm. Michael Mullen, then chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said “we can’t kill our way to victory,” the cornerstone of American policy in Afghanistan has been not about obliterating the Taliban but pummeling them toward peace talks. President Barack Obama’s Afghan surge of 100,000 American troops failed to do this.

In his speech Monday night, President Trump asserted that the United States would yet achieve peace through victory. Despite that assertion, and far more modest troop commitments this time, the hope of tiring the Taliban remains the mantra repeated by American diplomats and the generals whom the president has empowered to execute his policy.

They have quietly repeated that hope even in the absence of any visible peace process since the latest serious effort at talks collapsed last year. Within hours of President Trump’s speech, the American military commander in Kabul made that clear.

“This new strategy means the Taliban cannot win militarily,” said the commander, Gen. John W. Nicholson. “Now is the time to renounce violence and reconcile. A peaceful, stable Afghanistan is victory for the Afghan people and the goal of the Coalition.”

An Afghan policeman stood watch at his unit’s small hilltop outpost overlooking the districts north of the provincial capital of Farah. Bryan Denton for The New York Times

As might be expected, the Taliban spokesman, Zabihullah Mujahid, scoffed at President Trump’s speech as “nothing new.” But many Afghans on the government side had a similar take.

“That’s the same strategy going on the last two decades,” said Jamaluddin Badr, a member of the Afghan High Peace Council. “He said we’re going to win, but he didn’t make it clear how we’re going to win.”

The vision of victory laid out by American generals, then and now, has been to help a friendly Afghan government hold Kabul and other crucial cities and convince the Taliban that they cannot again rise to national power, as they did in the ’90s.

But the ground has shifted. Even if the new American troop commitment limits the Taliban to the territory they have seized in the past two years, the pressure of that advance and old political rivalries have brought the Afghan government to the brink of collapse.

Further, the Taliban whom the Americans hope to bring to the table are not the same.

The Taliban position against peace talks has rarely been more hard-line than now. As the Taliban have regained territory, they have killed government soldiers and policemen at the highest rate of the war. General Qahraman, who until last year was the president’s military envoy to Helmand, said the insurgents control 60 percent of the country. Even the government’s own figures concede the Taliban contest or control 35 percent, a substantial gain over last year.

What once was a marginal, militant faction, the Haqqani Network, is now in the Taliban’s top leadership, including the No. 2 figure, who is in charge of military operations. The Haqqanis have been responsible for many of the deadliest attacks on the capital, and are known for running a virtual factory in Pakistan that has steadily supplied suicide bombers since 2005. The last Taliban leader to espouse peace talks, Mullah Akhtar Muhammad Mansour, was killed in an American drone strike last year.

The rise in Afghanistan of the Islamic State in Khorasan, an affiliate of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, may be worrying Taliban leaders who see it as a potential rival. But the more extreme violence and ideology promoted by the Islamic State may also have forced the Taliban to adopt harsher methods themselves and made participation in peace talks even more unlikely.

President Trump mentioned “victory” four times and “defeat” of the enemy seven times in his speech. But it remains unclear what victory would even look like.

Police officers by the crater caused by a truck bombing in Kabul in May. Andrew Quilty for The New York Times

His speech hinted at one possible outcome: denying the insurgents safe havens in Pakistan, possibly by severing that country’s billions in American military aid.

American policy makers have repeatedly considered and rejected that possibility before. Pakistan has proved immune to sanctions, even severe ones when it was developing nuclear weapons. Pakistan also has a powerful ally in China, which is likely to step into any breach in American assistance. Alienating Pakistan could make the situation in Afghanistan far worse.

More likely, victory will resemble Afghanistan now: “a stalemate where the equilibrium favors the government,” in General Nicholson’s words to Congress in February.

That assumes that the Afghan government of President Ashraf Ghani can survive, an assumption sorely tested this year. Troubled with political divisions, and sometimes deadly infighting among pro-government warlords, Mr. Ghani’s government has faced debilitating street protests from citizens angry about terrorist attacks and insecurity.

Long-delayed parliamentary elections are scheduled for next year, but whether a credible vote can be held remains unclear. The 2014 presidential election was a disputed debacle of vote-stealing and other fraud.

President Trump’s speech on Afghanistan was conspicuously devoid of details: no timetable or numbers of new troops, though it is believed to be about 4,000. A timetable has been long opposed by American generals and Afghan officials who see it as a valuable piece of information for Taliban planners.

Franz-Michael Mellbin, the European Union ambassador to Kabul, said Mr. Trump’s vagueness was strategically shrewd. “It is an important signal to the Taliban that they can no longer wait us out,” he said.

But it also signaled that, 16 years on, many years of American entanglement may remain.

Even before the president’s speech, the American military and Afghan leaders were laying long-term plans. President Ghani has a new four-year plan for the war, extending through the 2020 fighting season, and includes doubling his army’s special forces. The American military has a $6.5-billion plan to make the Afghan air force self-sufficient and end its overreliance on American air power by 2023.

A funeral near Kabul, after two suicide bombers tied to the Islamic State attacked a peaceful protest. Adam Ferguson for The New York Times

The Taliban have long-range plans, too. While their attempts to actually hold seized provincial capitals have failed — often because of massive intervention by American air power, aided by special operations troops — many provincial centers remain little more than islands, surrounded by hostile countryside.

Taliban fighters can create roadblocks and ambushes in almost any part of the country, disrupting commerce and exacting an ever-growing human toll. Most of the 3,000 civilians killed annually are victims of the insurgents. And with Taliban control of most of Helmand Province, where 80 percent of Afghanistan’s opium is produced, Taliban coffers are full, both from taxing the drug and trafficking in it.

The insurgents, too, suffer high casualties; one senior American military official put their losses at 10,000 a year. Only five years ago, American military intelligence officials put the Taliban’s entire strength at 20,000 men, yet they seem to have no trouble replenishing their numbers.

Ask the Taliban about that, and they have a ready answer.

Hajji Naqibullah, an insurgent commander from Sangin District, cited Hajji Amanullah, who had 13 members of his family killed in battle, all replaced by his nephews. And Mullah Abdul Salam had four sons killed but his fifth volunteered, and is now a local commander.

Hajji Naqibullah said three of his own cousins were killed during the fight in Sangin, where more American and British soldiers died than anywhere else in Afghanistan, and which fell to the insurgents in March after a yearlong campaign. The three were brothers, and their widowed mother had one son left, who joined after they died. “His mother is now living with widows and orphans,” Hajji Naqibullah said.

Somewhere in Kandahar Province Monday morning, the Taliban’s military commander for the south, a member of the group’s ruling Quetta Shura, tuned in at 5:30 a.m. to the BBC’s Pashto service to hear a translation of Mr. Trump’s speech. Like many Taliban leaders, he said, he had hoped to hear Mr. Trump make good on early vows to quit Afghanistan.

“This is not good for the people of Afghanistan,” said the commander, who did not want his name or even precise location identified for security reasons.

“He should realize Afghanistan is not like it was during the Bush and Obama administrations,” he said. “And we are not going to surrender, we are not going to give up, we’ll fight this war for another 16 years.”

NY Times



46 Comments on "What an Afghanistan Victory Looks Like Under the Trump Plan"

  1. bug on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 4:19 pm 

    ” we are not going to give up, we’ll fight this war for another 16yrs.” HAHAHA
    I can’t believe people say this.
    Maybe they should tell the soldiers to fight harder like it is halftime at a football game. unbelievable

  2. Theedrich on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 5:05 pm 

    The only solution to A-stan is megadeath.  Erik Prince stands alone in presenting a strategy based on Realpolitik.  The problem obstructing fact-based measures is American politics, since the country has been based on imaginary ideas about human nature from its inception.  The nation came into being three-quarters of a century before Darwin published his work on evolution.  Whacko religious movements inflated by media propaganda have worked to push the country into wars and let it pat itself on its back for stymying the progress of nature.

    Unless the U.S. follows Prince’s advice or carpet-bombs all of Afghanistan plus much of Pakistan with MOABs, the idea of driving the Taliban or IS, Vietnam-war style, to the negotiating table, is a pipe dream.  As with the Vietnam war, the Left will go crazy against any effective measures undertaken by Trump’s military.  War is a horrifying business.  And so is capitulation, which is what Washington may be faced with, if the Left wins next year’s elections.

    Afghanistan may actually bring down Goliath.

  3. Boat on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 5:43 pm 

    Theedrich on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 5:05 pm

    Like Vietnam, who now is a large trade partner and buys arms to fend off an aggressive China?

  4. pathology on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 6:35 pm 

    Theedrich-

    Stop already with your idiotic excuses. The Prince Christian wackos have Trump’s ear so if President Man-Child fails to follow your sage advice, the buck stops with the right-wing nutters and nobody else.

  5. pathology on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 6:41 pm 

    Besides, what business is it of yours or Trumps how the Afgan people wish to live. None. One of the principal objectives of bin Laden is to force the US into bankruptcy via incessant warfare. At $3 trillon and counting, bin Laden’s strategy is proving to be brilliant.

    Save your advices, Theedrich, for whatever shithole country you happen to occupy. Or get off your tired ass and go fight in Afganistan, Mr. armchair general.

  6. Anonymouse1 on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 7:06 pm 

    ‘Bin Laden’ is dead, supposedly, in 2011 at the hands of a uS hit-murder squad pathos. Do you have any source or reference where ‘Bin Laden’ articulated bankrupting the Jewnited Snakes as a strategy? How do you bankrupt a nation that can print almost infinite amounts of new debt at will(at least for the time being anyhow)?. The uS consciously decided to spend those trillions, no one outside the uS, and certainly not anyone named ‘Bin Laden’ ever forced their hand. The uS was more than happy to re-direct those trillions away from domestic needs, and right at to the uS military and corporate sectors.

    In case you didnt get the memo, the uS is not spending trillions to ‘fight terrorism’ or ‘Bin Laden’ types, but to control the flow of energy and resources away from rising Eurasian powers and to break up formerly cohesive nations into failed states, amenable to uS corporate control and manipulation.

    Of course, you wont hear any of this from the Jew York Times, or from their bullshit article above. In your, and JY Times minds, and most amerikants, its all one big happy endless War of Terror, isnt it…..

  7. dissident on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 7:17 pm 

    Afghanistan is living up to its title as the grave of empires. America clearly has a demented death wish.

    Actually, Afghanistan is the gateway to Central Asia and the former USSR Muslim republics. It is also a way to sabotage the Chinese new silk road initiative. America thinks that it will be ruling over China and Russia. America needs to stop drinking its own propaganda koolaid.

  8. Makati1 on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 7:38 pm 

    dissident, I agree. Afghanistan is a key country, but it happens to be a difficult country to control. The Russians took 9 years to realize that and left. The U$ has been there since October 2001 and still trying. The “Number One” military in the world with the highest military budget in the world by far, is still losing after 16 years.

  9. pathology on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 7:44 pm 

    Anonymouse1

    You fool, if you would get off your tired ass and do a bit of research then you would realize there is plenty of evidence for my statement. Your problem is that you are so emotionally wed to our meme that you can’t imagine there is any other reason. Thus you demonstrate your total ignorance.

    Bin Laden: Goal is to Bankrupt US, http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binladen.tape/

  10. Makati1 on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 7:54 pm 

    In the news:

    ““Narco-State Afghanistan” Leads to Heroin Addiction in the USA”
    “The Spoils of War: Afghanistan’s Multibillion Dollar Heroin Trade”
    “Afghanistan – Trump to Announce Four More One-Year Wars”
    “Heroin Dealer in Chief. Afghanistan, Source of 90% of The World’s Heroin”
    “Five Major Flaws in Trump’s Afghanistan Strategy that He Does Not Want You to Know About”
    “Trump’s Afghan Strategy: Forever War and Occupation”
    “Trump’s Fascism Versus Obama’s Fascism”
    http://www.globalresearch.ca/

    Now we know why we are in Afghanistan: To feed America’s drug addiction by protecting the poppy fields and supporting the CIA black-ops with its profits.

  11. Apneaman on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 7:59 pm 

    Alfred McCoy from 2010

    How America will collapse (by 2025)
    Four scenarios that could spell the end of the United States as we know it — in the very near future

    “Despite the aura of omnipotence most empires project, a look at their history should remind us that they are fragile organisms. So delicate is their ecology of power that, when things start to go truly bad, empires regularly unravel with unholy speed: just a year for Portugal, two years for the Soviet Union, eight years for France, 11 years for the Ottomans, 17 years for Great Britain, and, in all likelihood, 22 years for the United States, counting from the crucial year 2003.”

    “By 2020, according to current plans, the Pentagon will throw a military Hail Mary pass for a dying empire.”

    ” Military Misadventure: Present Situation

    Counterintuitively, as their power wanes, empires often plunge into ill-advised military misadventures. This phenomenon is known among historians of empire as “micro-militarism” and seems to involve psychologically compensatory efforts to salve the sting of retreat or defeat by occupying new territories, however briefly and catastrophically. These operations, irrational even from an imperial point of view, often yield hemorrhaging expenditures or humiliating defeats that only accelerate the loss of power.

    Embattled empires through the ages suffer an arrogance that drives them to plunge ever deeper into military misadventures until defeat becomes debacle.”

    http://www.salon.com/2010/12/06/america_collapse_2025/

  12. GregT on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 8:02 pm 

    Bin Laden was killed in 2001, and the U.S. Deep sate is doing a fine job of bankrupting the USA all by itself.

    Of course Trump has declared that he will make America Great Again, but that was just a muse.

  13. GregT on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 8:12 pm 

    Oops, my bad.

    Trump was elected president of the U.S. by Vladamir Putin. Vlad and Osama are going to bankrupt the U.S. from their strategic command centre hidden in an ‘intricate network of caves’ somewhere in Afghanistan. The U.S. has been bombing the crap out of Afghanistan for the past 16 years, and they still haven’t been able to locate the cave.

  14. GregT on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 8:21 pm 

    Of course there is yet another angle. The US has been bombing the crap out of Afghanistan, killing tens of thousands of innocent women and children, all in the name of women’s rights. Yah, that’s gotta be the reason.

  15. Boat on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 8:44 pm 

    As long as religious Muslims kill they will be killed in return is a pretty safe prediction. Not only the US but many countries. The Russians kill Russian Muslims, the Chinese kill Chinese Muslim, Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Saudi, India etc. Don’t forget the Kurd’s. greggiet as usual doesn’t grasp the bigger picture. Even his own country and tax dollars support killing some forms of religious killers. How does he square this in his tortured mind.

  16. GregT on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 8:50 pm 

    As long as western countries, especially the Jew S of A, continue to kill millions of Muslims in an attempt to control their resources, those people will continue to fight back. And rightfully so.

  17. Apneaman on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 8:59 pm 

    The Imperial Collapse Clock Ticks Closer to Midnight

    “As I noted in last Friday’s piece, Donald Trump Finally Comes Out of the Closet, the firing of Steve Bannon represents the most significant event to occur during the Trump administration thus far. For the purposes of this piece, it’s important to review some of what I wrote:

    Irrespective of what you think of Bannon, him being out means Wall Street and the military-industrial complex is now 100% in control of the Trump administration. Prepare for an escalation of imperial war around the world and an expansion of brutal oligarchy.

    The removal of Bannon is the end of even a facade of populism. This is now the Goldman Sachs Presidency with a thin-skinned, unthinking authoritarian as a figurehead. Meanwhile, guess who’s still there in addition to the Goldman executives? Weed obsessed, civil asset forfeiture supporting Jefferson Sessions. The Trump administration just bacame ten times more dangerous than it was before. With the coup successful, Trump no longer needs to be impeached.

    Here’s another prediction. Watch the corporate media start to lay off Trump a bit more going forward. Rather than hysterically demonize him for every little thing, corporate media will increasingly give him more of the benefit of the doubt. After all, a Presidency run by Goldman Sachs and generals is exactly what they like. Trump finally came out of the closet as the anti-populist oligarch he is, and the results won’t be pretty.

    Of course, his cheerleaders will remain enthusiastically in denial about what’s happened to their hero, but Trump has been totally brought to heel, a fact that’ll become increasingly crystal clear in the months ahead. This is now your standard Wall Street and military-industrial complex run Presidency.”

    https://libertyblitzkrieg.com/2017/08/22/the-imperial-collapse-clock-ticks-closer-to-midnight/

  18. Phillips 66 on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 9:05 pm 

    Osama bin Laden was killed on May 2, 2011, when the U.S. Navy Seals raided his compound in Abbottabad, Pakistan. If people believe otherwise then they have to answer why Pakistan didn’t say otherwise when the raid happened and why Al-Qaeda didn’t come out and say the U.S. was lying and why even bin Laden’s family didn’t disagree when President Obama said that bin Laden was dead.

    Internet sources on the subject:

    http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/09/world/death-of-osama-bin-laden-fast-facts/index.html

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Osama_bin_Laden

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/03/world/asia/osama-bin-laden-dead.html?mcubz=0

    http://www.npr.org/2011/05/03/135951504/timeline-the-raid-on-osama-bin-ladens-hideout

    Books on the Raid:

    https://www.amazon.com/No-Easy-Day-Firsthand-Account/dp/0451468740/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503452988&sr=1-1&keywords=No+Easy+Day

    https://www.amazon.com/Operator-Firing-Shots-Killed-Warrior/dp/1501145037/ref=pd_bxgy_14_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1501145037&pd_rd_r=6NGPMA7KYAH0MRB9FC36&pd_rd_w=VjY6U&pd_rd_wg=PzJ0f&psc=1&refRID=6NGPMA7KYAH0MRB9FC36

    https://www.amazon.com/Finish-Killing-Osama-bin-Laden/dp/0802121527/ref=la_B001HCV3XI_1_6_twi_pap_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503453593&sr=1-6

    https://www.amazon.com/Manhunt-Ten-Year-Search-Laden-Abbottabad/dp/0307955885/ref=pd_sim_14_6?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=0307955885&pd_rd_r=S3WJ3KYF0HVCBYACN7A4&pd_rd_w=IgIKa&pd_rd_wg=EPYz9&psc=1&refRID=S3WJ3KYF0HVCBYACN7A4

    The U.S. and its allies have been trying to get rid of Al-Qaeda, who carried out the 9/11 attacks, and the Taliban and stabilize and rebuild the country for the last sixteen years so that we don’t see another 9/11 style attack again.

    I guess Sun-Tzu was right when he said that it is “easy to conquer, but it’s hard to occupy.”

  19. GregT on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 9:30 pm 

    According to Benazir Bhutto, the former president of Pakistan, Bin Laden was murdered in 2001, by the same people that she predicted would assassinate her, which happened less than two months later.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4MBTd5QNGB0

  20. Makati1 on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 9:34 pm 

    Boat: Facts…

    US population now = ~326,000,000

    US Muslim population now = ~7,000,000 and growing.

    Total world population of Muslims now – ~2,180,000,000 and growing.

    http://muslimpopulation.com/index.html

    BTW: “Islam is the oldest recorded monotheistic religion in the Philippines. Islam reached the Philippines in the 14th century with the arrival of Muslim traders from the Persian Gulf,” WIKI

    Are you ready to bow to Mecca? I will, if it means keeping my head. You bow to Wall Street and are not even threatened. LOL

  21. Makati1 on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 9:42 pm 

    GregT, the brainwashing is too deep in most Americans … Phillips 66 … to ever be changed by real facts. They believe every lie the USMSM puts out. Bin laden was dead long ago. The very fact that the body was never shown, and was buried at sea immediately, is proof. The serfs lapped it up as a sign that maybe the empire was not dying around them. Hope…LOL

  22. Phillips 66 on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 1:56 am 

    “According to Benazir Bhutto, the former president of Pakistan, Bin Laden was murdered in 2001, by the same people that she predicted would assassinate her, which happened less than two months later.”

    “Bin laden was dead long ago. The very fact that the body was never shown, and was buried at sea immediately, is proof.”

    Could you guys explain to me then why Al-Qaeda didn’t deny Osama bin Laden’s death and why even his own family agreed that he was killed in the raid on May 2, 2011, even Osama bin Laden’s son Omar says that his father was killed in the raid and buried at sea (is he part of the conspiracy too) and wouldn’t the Pakistani government have said something if they thought that the U.S. was lying.

    U.S. military personnel took DNA from bin Laden’s body and found a match with DNA taken from bin Laden’s extended family. Plus, two U.S. Navy Seals who were on the raid Mathew Bissonette and Robert o’Neil wrote books about it.

    I think we can conclude that Benazir Bhutto was wrong when she said that Osama bin Laden was dead. It’s time to expose 9/11 attack and bin Laden death conspiracies as bs. Don’t you agree?

  23. Makati1 on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 3:02 am 

    Phillips 66, Al-Qaeda is a US puppet. As is ISIS. They do what they are told. They are sent where the US wants them. They will likely come to America soon, or are already there.

    Were YOU there at his death in “2011”? NO.

    Then how do YOU know ANYTHING about it?

    Answer: The USMSM, TPTB’s propaganda machine. And military sources are NOT any more honest or reliable than the USMSM. Probably even less so. All those generals and admirals are looking forward to lucrative government and corporate futures after retirement so they are just ‘yes men’.

    As for 9/11, it was obviously an inside job on September 9, 2001 when I watched the towers come down on TV in the construction company meeting room. A controlled demolition, not from an airplane crash. And how do you explain Building 7?

    You are a typical brainwashed American, Phillips 66. Put down the dirty, bloody flag, take off the blinders and rose colored glasses and see the real terrorist US.

  24. Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 3:17 am 

    The Taliban and folks like bin Laden were made big by the US as a tool to drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan. This succeeded and then, surprise, surprise, the Taliban took over Afghanistan and began to use the country as a base for the global Jihadist revolution.

    The 9/11 false flag inside job (forget the ramblings of Phillips 66) was used as a pretext to go into Afghanistan and Iraq to add both countries to the US empire and encircle Iran.

    There is a strong link between Afghanistan and the ISIS movement, that for a few years took over large parts of Syria and Iraq, where initially the US used “moderate Islamists” to again drive Russia out of its proxy Syria. It all went wrong.

    Once Putin and Assad will have completely defeated ISIS in Syria and restore Syrian sovereignty over most of its former territory, expect that a lot of Jihadists will move from Syria and Iraq to Afghanistan to fight US troops there.

    It is obvious that Trump has been strong-armed by the MIC and deep state (forget about the wall with Mexico), against his longstanding conviction, to continue to attempt to keep Afghanistan in US geopolitical orbit. It is destined to become another Vietnam and similar eventual humiliating withdrawal.

  25. Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 3:29 am 

    @Phillips 66

    We never got to see Osama bin Laden’s body who ostensibly was thrown overboard within 24 hours “to respect Islamic custom” (after he ostensibly had killed 3000 Americans).

    It is telling that most of the participant of the raid were killed in an accident afterwards, a sort of “XXL Oswald” operation.

    http://www.ad.nl/buitenland/nog-maar-2-navy-seals-van-raid-op-bin-laden-in-leven~a4630209/

    “only 2 of the original 25 Seals still alive, the rest died in accidents”

    Plus, two U.S. Navy Seals who were on the raid Mathew Bissonette and Robert o’Neil wrote books about it.

    These shady characters have been totally debunked, even by the UK press:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/11217651/Robert-ONeill-has-gone-from-hero-to-zero-after-claiming-glory-for-Osama-bin-Laden-killing.html

    You are either a complete idiot or a CIA volunteer.

  26. L Martin on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 3:40 am 

    I wonder why 20 million Hindus are not imported?

  27. onlooker on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 6:32 am 

    Absolutely Phillips. What Makati and Clog are saying is true, not a shred of truth in the official accounts of either 911 or Osama Bin Laden. Ask yourself why did he roam free for so long, he hid in cave yeah right. Just research 911 to see what the US government is capable of. So much informatin exists that shoots down this official version. So once you can ascertain the complicity of the US in 911, it should not be too difficult to accept that the Western MSM habitually lies about all important information. Oh and I am an American

  28. peakyeast on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 10:03 am 

    Is there any government on earth that has not been proven to be an organisation of habitual liars and murderers… I dont think so.

    Plan accordingly: The governments are not for the people. They are for the powermongers and their accomplishes to abuse the peoples of earth.

  29. pathology on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 1:50 pm 

    @ Joe

    You typical Trumpie troll. Trump the omnipotent is never wrong. All the bad decisions are the fault of, according to your blame everyone else retarded philosophy, inner-city liberals, Dems, Blacks, liberal Jews, Deep State, unsupportive Republicans, and fill in the blank.

    The concept of personal responsibility is anathema in your chlldish, deplorable simple mind.

  30. Davy on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 4:43 pm 

    pathology, Joe is a limey, he just like to talk about the US obsessively like so many others on this board. You wonder sometimes if we are the only game in town.

  31. pathology on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 9:26 pm 

    Davy,

    It’s Der Hund. I’m out of the country using a non-owned computer. Assumed I had to use a different screen name (Pathology) or can I continue to use Der Hund?

    Thank you.

  32. Cloggie on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 10:01 pm 

    Regardless of who killed OBL and when, it is cleat that
    Phillips 66 on Tue, 22nd Aug 2017 9:05 pm
    killed this thread with his long links.

  33. Boat on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 10:21 pm 

    peakyeast on Wed, 23rd Aug 2017 10:03 am

    Is there any government on earth that has not been proven to be an organisation of habitual liars and murderers… I dont think so.

    That’s old news, whats the new news.

  34. ____________________________________________ on Thu, 24th Aug 2017 12:09 am 

    The only way to win in bumfuckistan is to send thousands of hiv infected boys and or ebola infected goats. But an (US)army of fags might also do it.

  35. Theedrich on Thu, 24th Aug 2017 4:06 pm 

    The herd has a lust for ignorance.  The Negro, with his 85 IQ being 15 points below the White average, is even worse.  Among such dross, myths, emotion and lies reign supreme.  Yet worse, the general IQ of the cretins (the word comes from “Christian”) “saved” by modern medicine to breed further, is depressing civilizational intelligence by about five points per century.  This catastrophe is masked by media blather about advances in science and technology — i.e., advances produced by only the top 1% of mankind — the 1% that is constantly vilified by the Left and by the Demonic Party generally for political gain.

    Meanwhile, Islam, the religion of consummate stupidity and barbarism, is growing apace and invading the West like a tsunami.  As former jihadist Dr. Tawfik Hamid says in his 2015 book, Inside Jihad:  How Radical Islam Works;  Why It Should Terrify Us; How to Defeat It, p. 167:
    Violent Islam’s proliferation in Islamic societies follows a standard pattern.  The process starts with the progagation of Salafist [i.e., fundamentalist] ideology, which can be detected by seeing increasing numbers of women wearing the hijab [head scarf].  The hijab is both a symptom of Salafi proliferation and a catalyst for Islamism — it helps spread the ideology.

    Note that such hijab-wearing female invaders are now appearing everywhere in Western socieites.  But the average Westerner is brainwashed to accept this further ideological degradation of general IQ and of culture generally.  He likes to think, “What I don’t know can’t hurt me.”  Our political leaders could not care less about the nation or the civilization in which it is embedded.  Germany’s Angela Merkel is a perfect example of a useful idiot for the descent into collapse.  American universities and the judiciary are filled with similar types.  The bolder among them even openly advocate the extinction of the White race.  Anti-racism, promoted by the Learned Elders of the media, is all the rage.

    This love of stupidity and dysgenics is leading us willy-nilly to the day when jihadists will, as they have promised, get hold of atomic weaponry or other WMDs from Pakistan.  Then we shall see whether what we do not know will not hurt us.

  36. Cloggie on Thu, 24th Aug 2017 4:34 pm 

    Germany’s Angela Merkel is a perfect example of a useful idiot for the descent into collapse.

    La Merkel, here on an archive picture…

    http://www.pi-news.net/wp-content/uploads/merkel-sammelt-flaschbier_collage.jpg

    …is hands down the worst leader since German unification in 1871 and for that reason can’t appear in public any more without being booed:

    Yesterday:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmeUXNG14jw

    The day before:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnuU0zKiYlI

    Everywhere in the West the globalist CIA media are busy preparing the downfall of president Trump. Cover latest edition der Stern:

    http://www.pi-news.net/wp-content/uploads/stern.jpg

    The Soros-deep state and their media don’t like it when autonomous white guys take over their war machine… in order to stop it.

    Italy is perhaps one of the western countries where the resistance is quietly very strong. The major of Venice for example has announced that anybody who will shout “Allah Akhbar” in public will be shot, no questions asked.

    That’s the spirit!

    http://www.pi-news.net/venedig-wer-allahu-akbar-schreit-wird-erschossen/

    It is only a matter of time until somewhere in the West the left and right will go at each other’s throat.

  37. Cloggie on Thu, 24th Aug 2017 4:55 pm 

    More new pictures today, now in Vacha:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bwAG-NTZUU

    Lot of people show “red cards”, used in soccer by referees to send a player from the field.

    In one month time on September 24 there will be national elections in Germany. It is likely that the AfD will enter parliament with more than 10%.

  38. Cloggie on Thu, 24th Aug 2017 5:18 pm 

    Roger Stone and confidant of Trump stating the obvious of what will happen if Trump is impeached:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hFRLbFaJEw

  39. Apneaman on Thu, 24th Aug 2017 8:20 pm 

    Disposable Douche, you are confused again. You have confused the economic top 1% with those people who actually discover or invent something beneficial, many of whom are not in the top 1% economically because they get ripped off by those who are. Getting rich by exploiting others or being a scientist or inventor who makes advances are two different worlds. You really don’t understand the humans at all. The single most overwhelming reason the humans came to dominate is because they cooperate like no other species. Not even fucking close. Watch what would happen to the 1% and everyone else if the farmers and garbage men and sanitation workers and operators walked off the job. Your city would be rat infested and disease ridden within a couple of weeks,

    Oh right you’re American, so your city is probably already rat infested.

    America Is on the Verge of Ratpocalypse

    Warmer weather is fueling a rodent surge, straining public health systems and the economy. It’s time for the federal government to step in.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/144392/america-verge-ratpocalypse

    Douche, I have seen nothing in any of you sniveling posts to indicate that you are not one of tens of millions of dead weight white Americans who dragged the country down.

    Pray tell douchy, what special skill is it that you have that puts you above all the white trash you won’t stop blaming and bitching about?

    What you got? It has to be more than your ‘feelings’. Are you a microbiologist whose work has saved countless lives and prevented illness? Lets hear what makes you soooooooo much better and irreplaceable.

    You think you are hot shit, but you are EXACTLY the closed minded know it all white trash merican that dragged your country down.

    Let’s hear this special all important occupation of yours. I bet if you told the truth I could easily name millions of black, latino and Asian Americans more accomplished and useful than you.

    Like clog you are a bitter, blaming, unaccomplished, envious loser looking for scapegoats. Point that finger at everyone else hoping people won’t notice what a monumental failure you turned out to be.

    Who makes the laws? Who sets policy? It’s not the dumbed down populous, who were never that smart to begin with – just regular working folk. No it’s the 1% who pull the strings. It’s the 1% who own the politicians. It’s the 1% who have the power and it’s the 1% who call the shots.

  40. Apneaman on Thu, 24th Aug 2017 8:49 pm 

    clog, is Roger Stone another one you have psychic communications with?

    Too bad you weren’t in Hongcouver the other day; you could have attended the rally

    Message of love, tolerance spread at anti-racism rally in Vancouver

    “Signs reading “live with love,” “diversity = strength” and “laundry is the only thing that should be separated by colour” were spotted above a packed crowd outside Vancouver’s city hall.”

    “Let’s pursue love, let’s pursue acceptance, let’s pursue understanding. And let’s get beyond stereotypes and close-minded people,”

    http://www.nationalobserver.com/2017/08/20/news/message-love-tolerance-spread-anti-racism-rally-vancouver

    You have more in common with those gentle people than you realize. For starters they are pacifists like all you Dutch. Unlike you, they are against all violence and not just trying to get others to do all the fighting for them. Come on down for the next big flower power rally clog. No need to worry about getting beat up or pepper sprayed for being a white supremacist. This ain’t Virginia. They are not violent savages like those nutter American lefties. I bet they would want to smoke a big fatty with you and take you for coffee and try and love all that hate out of you. Show you the error of your ways and all that good shit. You might like it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkZC7sqImaM

  41. Cloggie on Fri, 25th Aug 2017 1:31 am 

    Message of love, tolerance spread at anti-racism rally in Vancouver

    LOL All these Asians, who already own Vancouver, together with white nutters, protesting against no doubt white racism. You can’t make this stuff up.

    China can have Vancouver for all I care, no will to survive or assert themselves:

    https://postimg.org/image/n7wrkxs6z/

    Vancouver can function as a bridgehead for Chinese troops, just like Alaska will serve as a bridgehead for Russian troops and the Gulf of Mexico for EU forces in the coming WW3. A civil war in the US will mean the end of the US empire and the end of the US as we know it. Other powers will step into the void.

  42. Theedrich on Fri, 25th Aug 2017 3:01 am 

    Stupie Man-ape, you can’t grasp that the 1% effectively means the most intelligent of the crop.  Whether they have acquired money (which is the only thing on your brain) or are among the best of the numerati, the Left and mud-lovers like you want them “equalized” down to your subhuman level.

  43. Cloggie on Fri, 25th Aug 2017 3:13 am 

    http://www.eurocanadian.ca/2017/08/ricardo-duchesne-canada-in-decay.html#more

    Canada in Decay. Mass immigration, diversity and the ethno-suicide of Euro-Canadians.

    Stupie Man-ape

    He is not stupid, he is a heeb and knows precisely what he is doing: murdering European civilization in North-America. But that’s OK, let him, it’s good for Greater Europe. We’ll pick up the pieces afterwards, on our terms.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hFRLbFaJEw

    Middle America is interesting and Scotland. Let the rest of Anglosphere sink in the waves. They had their two centuries, UK-19th, US-20th.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user3303/imageroot/20160612_nothing.jpg

    Death by suicide, it sometimes happens.

    https://www.amazon.com/Suicide-Superpower-Will-America-Survive-ebook/dp/B004YD36HS/ref=sr_1_1

    (287 reviews, 4.5 stars, it certainly hit a nerve)

  44. Makati1 on Fri, 25th Aug 2017 3:57 am 

    Theedrich, Most of the 1% are not the smartest. They may be intelligent, but their difference is that they have no morals. They are predators by nature, not necessarily intelligent. Most of the 1% today were born into it.

    The top 1%:
    #1 Carlos Slim – Mexican Latino
    #6 Lakshmi Mittal – Indian
    #9 Mukesh Ambani – Indian
    #11 Li Ka-shing – Chinese
    #23 Thomas & Raymond Kwok & family – Chinese
    #25 Prince Alwaleed Bin Talal Alsaud – Arab
    and on and on.

    http://list25.com/the-25-richest-people-in-the-world/

    None of these are whiteys. The richest Filipinos are multi-billionaires, but not white. Many, if not most billionaires are not white. Prove your statement.

  45. Cloggie on Fri, 25th Aug 2017 4:13 am 

    Theedrich, Most of the 1% are not the smartest. They may be intelligent

    That’s what Theedrich says.

    None of these are whiteys.

    The top 25 is, minus the Jews and your 6 non-whites (Slim is a Catholic Lebanese).

    White oligarchs still have the most money, but the Jews have the political power and the ideology, that is secularized Chosenite “religion”, dressed up as Messianism to “Save the World” LAMO… where the whites are burdened with their Christian self-defeating sucker loser religion.

  46. Davy on Fri, 25th Aug 2017 6:11 am 

    “Message of love, tolerance spread at anti-racism rally in Vancouver”

    Double friggen lol, the board clowns didn’t get the message. Canadians are selective about their love and tolerance. Just so it is not American.


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