War Looms Closer: Ukraine Helicopters Shot Down

34 Comments on "War Looms Closer: Ukraine Helicopters Shot Down"

J-Gav on Fri, 2nd May 2014 6:54 am 



A situation that might appear farcically unnecessary but for the tragic consequences which could ensue. If civil war (or a broader conflict of some nature) breaks out, there can be no winners – other than the arms manufacturers and banksters who would be licking their chops.

antiwarforever on Fri, 2nd May 2014 7:15 am 



That region has always been Russian and is populated by Russians (vast majority), therefore I don’t see why-nothwistanding geopolitics of course-it shouldn’t be included in the Federation of Russia. My 2 cents, (for what it’s worth).

Davy, Hermann, MO on Fri, 2nd May 2014 7:21 am 



Gav, this could be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. With the economic risk and the heightened rhetoric coupled with the massing of effective and potent military assets we could see poor decisions cascading into an economic destructive conflict that the global system will not be able to digest. What about all those other flash points ready to blow up all over the rest of the world. I would wonder if China will use a conflict as an opportunity to move on one of their hot spots. We could see a WWI type dominos tipping. This is a very dangerous situation that is appearing self-organizing and beyond the scope of top down management. This is precisely the thing that could wreck the fragile global trade, production, and exchange system with financial loss of confidence and liquidity paralysis. If you are a US supplier of grain are you going to make a shipment of soybeans to China if you are not sure the letter of credit is good? Multiply that a thousand times and a million times for smaller transactions. We are in a very risky situation that is close to systematic catastrophic bifurcation. I hope I have just had too much coffee this morning and too energized with zeal. Maybe cooler heads will prevail when TPTB look over the cliff into the abyss and taste some fear. It will be the equivalent of having your finger on the MAD button.

antiwarforever on Fri, 2nd May 2014 8:12 am 



concerning the chinese ambitions in the south china sea, it’s true it is another hotspot, however Japan is under the US nuclear umbrella so I don’t think China will invade the Senkaku islands (bone of contention with Japan), however I ouldn’t be tto sure about the Paracel (de facto chinese anyway) and the Spratly because of the big reserves of oil under those archipelagoes …

islander on Fri, 2nd May 2014 8:33 am 



Who keeps linking to these Russian pieces of propaganda? The people fighting against the Ukrainian government are Russian special forces and their proxy militia, not ‘self-defence units’. Russia is using it’s soldiers inside Ukraine to seize territory whilst saying that they are Ukrainian people.

Davey on Fri, 2nd May 2014 9:02 am 



I imagine all sides are playing games island. I want to see Big Bad Russia swollow eastern Ukraine. They have not even divested Crimea!! Talk about glutenous! The west are just as bad to provoke this situation with failing economies. Tptb can’t help it they are all glutons for geopolitical advantage without a care for their people, economies, nor global security!

antiwarforever on Fri, 2nd May 2014 9:04 am 



…and then what ? the Ukrainian “government” is even employing infamous Blackwater mercenaries! if ever Russia invades Ukraine, more power to them! it will be a revenge for the illegal invasion of kOSOVO by NATO 15 years ago. There is something like an Immanent Justice after all.

rockman on Fri, 2nd May 2014 9:27 am 



Islander – Not saying Russia doesn’t have forces in the eastern Ukraine but if you watch the same videos I have you’ll see a lot of civilians directly involved. And even they don’t deserve the title of militia. There appears to be a significant portion of the citizenry of E Ukraine opposing Kiev. None which means Putin wouldn’t take advantage of the situation but this does appear to be a true civil uprising IMHO.

bobinget on Fri, 2nd May 2014 9:46 am 



If it’s wars your looking for, try Sudan or Syria or CAR
Tens of thousands dead, four million refugees from Syria. A like amount 3.7 mil from S.Sudan. No Ground tilled when farmers are living in abject degradation hundreds of miles from home.

THIS COMING WINTER millions of refugees from S.Sudan, CAR, Syria will die of starvation… full stop.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/04/world/africa/south-sudan-will-starve-without-help-un-warns.html?_r=0

Even if there were enough ‘surplus’ food about there is no money, personal around for distribution.

If even a low intensity civil war prevails in Ukraine
harvests will be limited, further exacerbating WW food
shortages.

Plantagenet on Fri, 2nd May 2014 10:20 am 



Russian military surface-to-air missiles were used to shoot down the Ukrainian helicopters.

I’d say the Russian invasion of eastern Ukraine has already started.

Davey on Fri, 2nd May 2014 10:45 am 



Planet, that is the typical weapon in both arsenals i imagine they were shoulder fired. This will be another handicap for the Russian if they invade. Many many small and effective military assets everwhere in that region. Russia may accomplish the initial invasion. The administeration may not be so easy like Iraq for the US. I see a significant resistance awaiting them. The Russians already know this and perhaps this fact is causing them pause. It may turn out to be a proxy civil war that will just destroy the eastern Ukraine like all civil wars do.

Plantagenet on Fri, 2nd May 2014 11:34 am 



Davet, Kerry says the Russians already have agents and troops in eastern Ukraine, just like they did in Crimea before Russia seized that region. No doubt it was a trained russian soldier who operated the surface-air-missile system to shoot down the Ukrainian helicopters.

PrestonSturges on Fri, 2nd May 2014 11:38 am 



It would be tough to cut off Russia from the Ukraine by land since they can ferry in materials by water and the Ukraine had its whole navy seized by Russia last month.

Makati1 on Fri, 2nd May 2014 12:00 pm 



Kerry, the “hair looking for a brain” joke called the Sec of State. Lies are all you get out of anyone from dc.

All it takes is Putin to make the next move and cripple the EU economy, thereby also crippling the US economy. I’m enjoying the game as Putin is several moves ahead of Obama. I’m not even sure if the US able to do anything but back down eventually.

As for China, I don’t expect any moves there. They do not need the resources around those islands yet. However, they are laying the groundwork for when the US is not able to ‘aid’ anyone and they can make ‘deals’ with the affected countries. I think the Chinese are also steps ahead of the West.

Is this how the nuclear war starts?

DC on Fri, 2nd May 2014 1:21 pm 



Of course plant believes anything and everything that comes out of the mouths of drooling incompetents like Kerry and the u$ Main-stream Propaganda outlets.A big lie is much easier to swallow(for some) than simple truths after all. I dont see what our pro-war, pro-globalists cheerleaders here are so upset about, they are getting there fondest wish. A ‘civil’ war brewing right on Russia’s door. Will amerika get the European war it needs to weaken and divide both the EU and Russia as well as distract the sheeple in the homeland? I guess the weeks and months ahead will tell.

Plantagenet on Fri, 2nd May 2014 1:35 pm 



Putin admitted he lied when he claimed no Russian troops were invading Crimea before the takeover there. Why should we believe Putin now when he claims no Russian troops are in eastern Ukraine?

Putin is a self-admitted liar. Anyone who believes him now is a dupe.

rockman on Fri, 2nd May 2014 1:42 pm 



M – Actually China’s big concern at the moment appears to focused onshore. The Ukraine does seem to be something of a monetary black hole that the EU/US appear to be on the verge of adopting in order to prevent further Russian influence. I wonder if the Ukraine will use some of that new IMF loan to pay back not only for Russian NG but the Chinese loan as well:

Russian media have been reporting that China is seeking the return of $3 billion in loans. The reports, also picked up by the South China Morning Post, cite an unnamed Ukrainian official as saying that China has filed a complaint against Ukraine for reneging on a deal where $3 billion in loans from China would be repaid in corn exports from Ukraine. According to the official, Kiev only provided a little over $150 million of worth of grain to China.

The original deal was signed in the fall of 2012. At the time, Ukraine’s agriculture minster, Mykola Prysyazhnyuk, told Financial Times that in return for access to $3 billion in loans, Kiev would export about 3 million tons of corn to China each year. Although China has in the past used a similar arrangement in oil-for-loans deals, the arrangement with the Ukraine was a first for China. The loan money was supposed to be mostly put back into the agricultural sector, including a $3 billion irrigation plan for the southern part of Ukraine.

The Foreign Ministry of Ukraine issued a statement denying the reports that China is seeking a return of the loan money. The news release cited a meeting between Victor Mayko, Ukraine’s Deputy Foreign Minister and Chinese Ambassador Zhang Xiyun. Zhang reportedly “emphasized the absence of claims from official Beijing as to the implementation of this contract and the willingness of the Chinese side to continue its realization.” Zhang also told Mayko that “currently there were no problems between Ukraine and China that could negatively affect further development of the two states interaction.”

China’s Foreign Ministry has downplayed the reports, with spokesperson Hua Chunying telling the press that “relevant reports are inconsistent with the facts.” However, she also said that China hopes “the Ukrainian side will ensure the effective implementation,” not exactly a full vote of confidence. Given the political turmoil in Ukraine, China is likely worried about the continuance of its grain imports from the Ukraine. But by the same token, the Chinese government would likely want to avoid adding to Ukraine’s troubles by asking for $3 billion to be returned. An Eastern European specialist at the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences told the Global Times that China would never file such a claim in the midst of such political uncertainty.

And there’s this story from last September:

Ukraine has agreed a deal with a Chinese firm to lease five per cent of its land to feed China’s burgeoning and increasingly demanding population, it has been reported.

It would be the biggest so called “land grab” agreement, where one country leases or sells land to another, in a trend that has been compared to the 19th century “scramble for Africa”, but which could now spread to the vast and fertile plains of eastern Europe.

Under the 50-year plan, China would eventually control three million hectares, an area equivalent to Belgium or Massachusetts, which represents nine per cent of Ukraine’s arable land. Initially 100,000 hectares would be leased.

The farmland in the eastern Dnipropetrovsk region would be cultivated principally for growing crops and raising pigs. The produce will be sold at preferential prices to Chinese state-owned conglomerates, said the Xinjiang Production and Construction Corp (XPCC), a quasi-military organisation also known as Bingtuan.

{And guess where the land lease deal is situated: Dnipropetrovsk is located in Ukraine, like many cities of Eastern Ukraine, it is very rare to hear people speaking the Ukrainian language. Wanna guess what the common language might be…comrade? LOL.

Dnipropetrovsk stands on the fault line between the pro-Russian east of the country and anti-Russian, nationalistic west. Built on both sides of the Dnieper River, which flows into the Black Sea, Dnipropetrovsk was a “closed city” during the days of the Soviet Union due to the aerospace industry centered in the city.

After Ukraine declared independence in 1991 and the Soviet Union was replace by modern Russia, the city became a powerhouse of industry, ranging from food-processing and dress-making factories to major aerospace companies and heavy equipment manufacturers.

Sounds like China may like more Moscow influence than Kiev in this region.

Davey on Fri, 2nd May 2014 2:09 pm 



Rock, this will be a new trend of F**cking China. These long term deals have a way of going sour. China is doing far too many questionable deals. The bad debt will start rolling in soon as the global financial system weakens. Eventually China will back off these deals when the costs mount. In any case China has money issues right at home so who know if they will even have the money to spend in the future. With a huge amount of Chinese financial assets basically junk I see a Chinese retreat from the world stage to lick its wounds at home much like we are seeing with the US military.

GregT on Fri, 2nd May 2014 2:35 pm 



Davey,

Hope you’re right about China’s money situation, because at the moment they’re buying everything in sight in Western Canada.

Davey on Fri, 2nd May 2014 2:51 pm 



Greg, i read about locals being priced out of the housing market out there in Western Canada. They are buying up Manhattan too. The strategy is sound in a healthy global economic climate but may bite them in the ass down the road. When i used to be finance manager in my families business debt quality had a way of deteriorating over time with questionable characters and deals. You can sell an eskimo snow with the right financing. I see Venezuela as the next potential bad debt.

GregT on Fri, 2nd May 2014 3:08 pm 



Average house price in Vancouver; $650,000, average wage; $35,000 per year. In my mind, there’s going to be a big correction. Even a small hike in interest rates would bring the entire market crashing down. A bubble of epic proportions.

GregT on Fri, 2nd May 2014 3:26 pm 



Just heard on the Radio, Canada is sending troops, and 8 CF-18 fighter jets to Poland. The War is ramping up. Just as I suspected.

Northwest Resident on Fri, 2nd May 2014 3:33 pm 



“The War is ramping up.”

That, or TPTB are positioning troops/equipment for border and crowd control, under the pretext of ramping up for war, all the better to prepare for global financial crash and significant population hysteria.

War with Russia would be insane, utterly self-destructive and mutual assured destruction.

Pretending to ramp up for war against Russia gives Russia all the excuses they need to mobilize and position their troops strategically, and gives the same cover to NATO/Western powers. That is ultimately logical, given the coming collapse.

Which is it?

rockman on Fri, 2nd May 2014 4:38 pm 



Davey – China has been ripe or a plucking for a long time. But that’s the nature of such international trades. Can’t know if the Chinese gov’t put an appropriate geopolitical risk factor to the process or not. I look on it like exploration drilling: if you start on the supposition that you’re going to drill few of any dry holes you’re plucked even before you start.

Consider the high risk/high reward with the Ukraine. Who knows where China will end up. But there are some great certainties. First the Kiev gov’t is absolutely desperate for revenue…they’ll trade with the devil (i.e. Putin) if they have no other choice. Second, I can’t imagine the EU/IMF is looking forward to keeping the Ukraine float for decades at their expense. Third, Russia and China are growing stronger economic ties all the time. The EU and Russia have strong economic ties. The EU and the Ukraine have strong economic ties. China and the Ukraine have been trying to develop stronger economic ties with food t the center. And whether either like it or not Russia and the Ukraine have very strong economic ties.

So being a strong believer in the natural desire of “free enterprise” to crush anything that stands in its way I suspect the situation will work itself out eventually. Unless, of course, if sone ass (on either side) loses it and kills a lot of civilians.

GregT on Fri, 2nd May 2014 4:42 pm 



I hear you NWR. I just don’t get why Canada would be sending troops. We would have more than enough trouble here at home.

rockman on Fri, 2nd May 2014 5:26 pm 



The plan to send Canadians is obvious to me: we plan to kill the Russians with politeness. Eh?

Makati1 on Fri, 2nd May 2014 7:28 pm 



If you were holding $1.4 trillion that was fast becoming worthless, wouldn’t you buy up all the real things you could, chancing that half might become worthless in the future? 50% is better than 0%.

And 10,000+ tons of gold at ~$1,400. becoming 10,000+ tons of gold at $5,000.+ will more than make up for any dollar investment losses. And, yes, gold WILL be part of the new financial system after the reset.

Davy, Hermann, MO on Fri, 2nd May 2014 8:35 pm 



Mak, I just divided your 10000 by pi. China will not have much gold left after its economy has its hard landing.

GregT on Fri, 2nd May 2014 9:41 pm 



Davy,

Sorry, but I seem to have missed something here. Why the dividing by pi thing?

MKohnen on Fri, 2nd May 2014 11:08 pm 



You know, Plant might have a point. Putin has lied about having troops in the Crimea (though, as we all know, Russian troops in the Crimea were allowed, it’s the use of them that is in question.) On the other hand, has the US lied? Russia accuses them of orchestrating the downfall of Yanukovich, and I’m not aware of the US denying it. The US is also accused of setting the CIA up in the Ukraine to oversee the supposed “war on terror” that the current regime is embarking upon. I’m also not aware of the US denying that at all. In fact, Brennan’s visit confirmed it. When Vice President Biden visited the Ukraine, he was accused of giving Turchynov a green light to start killing people in the east. I’m unaware of Biden denying that. So, yes, I guess Putin is the liar and shouldn’t be trusted.

GregT, I’m extremely saddened to see Canada participating in ratcheting up the Ukrainian situation. Harper has completely destroyed our reputation internationally. We are now firmly the US’ Mini-Me. I wonder if, by remaining so silent about the whole affair, most Canadians are aware of how much they could lose? Maybe most of us think it will be just like Afghanistan. We’ll send some troops over, a bunch of them will get killed, we’ll kill a passel of Russian’s, and the Ukraine will finally have women voting! I don’t think they even contemplate the actual possibility of bombed-out Vancouver, Toronto, Winnipeg, etc. If they knew the war might be “over here”, would they still be so willing to go on this ride with Harper, Obama and the rest of NATO? I doubt it.

GregT on Sat, 3rd May 2014 12:22 am 



MKohnen,

Couldn’t agree more. The general population only want to live their lives and be left alone. It is the central bankers, and their oligarchs, that will never be satisfied until they have it all.

The bad thing about being in debt is, the debtor is always beholden to the creditor. Harper doesn’t run Canada, he is nothing more than a puppet.

tahoe1780 on Sat, 3rd May 2014 12:39 am 



http://blog.al.com/wire/2014/02/assistant_us_secretary_of_stat.html

Davy, Hermann, MO on Sat, 3rd May 2014 7:17 am 



Greg said – Davy, Sorry, but I seem to have missed something here. Why the dividing by pi thing?

Greg, when we see the Mak show here (Makati1 propaganda news outlet) What he says about his poster girls China, Russia, and Asia and unbalanced criticism of the west in particular the US, needs to be divided by Pi to get a true balanced unexaggerated presentation of the facts. I am being dryly funny but often true to the actual numbers he projects.

Makati1 on Sat, 3rd May 2014 7:24 pm 



Davy, funny is not what you seem to be. Maybe a CIA bot, but not funny.

As I said before, there are 7+ billion of us now and that means 7+ billion different views of the world, based on our observations and experience. Your’s seems to be that of a narrow minded back-hills, flag waving patriot. Long rants don’t make you right nor does your once being in the 1% make you intelligent. If my comments on the worl bother you, don’t read them. Simple isn’t it?