Peak Oil is You
Donate Bitcoins ;-) or Paypal :-)
Page added on March 7, 2014
Ukraine crisis is about Great Power oil, gas pipeline rivalry
Pipeline map via BBC
Russia‘s armed intervention in the Crimea undoubtedly illustrates President Putin’s ruthless determination to get his way in Ukraine. But less attention has been paid to the role of the United States in interfering in Ukrainian politics and civil society. Both powers are motivated by the desire to ensure that a geostrategically pivotal country with respect to control of critical energy pipeline routes remains in their own sphere of influence.
Much has been made of the reported leak of the recording of an alleged private telephone conversation between US assistant secretary of state Victoria Nuland and US ambassador to Kiev Geoffrey Pyatt. While the focus has been on Nuland’s rude language, which has already elicited US apologies, the more important context of this language concerns the US role in liaising with Ukrainian opposition parties with a view, it seems, to manipulate the orientation of the Ukrainian government in accordance with US interests.
Rather than leaving the future of Ukrainian politics “up to the Ukrainian people” as claimed in official announcements, the conversation suggests active US government interference to favour certain opposition leaders:
Nuland: Good. I don’t think [opposition leader] Klitsch should go into the government. I don’t think it’s necessary, I don’t think it’s a good idea.Pyatt: Yeah. I guess… in terms of him not going into the government, just let him stay out and do his political homework and stuff. I’m just thinking in terms of sort of the process moving ahead we want to keep the moderate democrats together. The problem is going to be Tyahnybok [Oleh Tyahnybok, the other opposition leader] and his guys and I’m sure that’s part of what [President Viktor] Yanukovych is calculating on all this.Nuland: [Breaks in] I think Yats is the guy who’s got the economic experience, the governing experience. He’s the… what he needs is Klitsch and Tyahnybok on the outside. He needs to be talking to them four times a week, you know. I just think Klitsch going in… he’s going to be at that level working for Yatseniuk, it’s just not going to work.[…]Nuland: OK. He’s [Jeff Feltman, United Nations Under-Secretary-General for Political Affairs] now gotten both [UN official Robert] Serry and [UN Secretary General] Ban Ki-moon to agree that Serry could come in Monday or Tuesday. So that would be great, I think, to help glue this thing and to have the UN help glue it and, you know, Fuck the EU.Pyatt: No, exactly. And I think we’ve got to do something to make it stick together because you can be pretty sure that if it does start to gain altitude, that the Russians will be working behind the scenes to try to torpedo it.
As BBC diplomatic correspondent Jonathan Marcus rightly observes, the alleged conversation:
“… suggests that the US has very clear ideas about what the outcome should be and is striving to achieve these goals… Washington clearly has its own game-plan…. [with] various officials attempting to marshal the Ukrainian opposition [and] efforts to get the UN to play an active role in bolstering a deal.”
But US efforts to turn the political tide in Ukraine away from Russian influence began much earlier. In 2004, the Bush administration had given $65 million to provide ‘democracy training’ to opposition leaders and political activists aligned with them, including paying to bring opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko to meet US leaders and help underwrite exit polls indicating he won disputed elections.
This programme has accelerated under Obama. In a speech at the National Press Club in Washington DC last December as Ukraine’s Maidan Square clashes escalated, Nuland confirmed that the US had invested in total “over $5 billion” to “ensure a secure and prosperous and democratic Ukraine” – she specifically congratulated the “Euromaidan” movement.
So it would be naive to assume that this magnitude of US support to organisations politically aligned with the Ukrainian opposition played no role in fostering the pro-Euro-Atlantic movement that has ultimately culminated in Russian-backed President Yanukovych’s departure.
Indeed, at her 2013 speech, Nuland added:
“Today, there are senior officials in the Ukrainian government, in the business community, as well as in the opposition, civil society, and religious community, who believe in this democratic and European future for their country. And they’ve been working hard to move their country and their president in the right direction.”
What direction might that be? A glimpse of an answer was provided over a decade ago by Professor R. Craig Nation, Director of Russian and Eurasian Studies at the US Army War College’s Strategic Studies Institute, in a NATO publication:
“Ukraine is increasingly perceived to be critically situated in the emerging battle to dominate energy transport corridors linking the oil and natural gas reserves of the Caspian basin to European markets… Considerable competition has already emerged over the construction of pipelines. Whether Ukraine will provide alternative routes helping to diversify access, as the West would prefer, or ‘find itself forced to play the role of a Russian subsidiary,’ remains to be seen.”
A more recent US State Department-sponsored report notes that “Ukraine’s strategic location between the main energy producers (Russia and the Caspian Sea area) and consumers in the Eurasian region, its large transit network, and its available underground gas storage capacities”, make the country “a potentially crucial player in European energy transit” – a position that will “grow as Western European demands for Russian and Caspian gas and oil continue to increase.”
Ukraine’s overwhelming dependence on Russian energy imports, however, has had “negative implications for US strategy in the region,” in particular the strategy of:
“… supporting multiple pipeline routes on the East–West axis as a way of helping promote a more pluralistic system in the region as an alternative to continued Russian hegemony.”
But Russia’s Gazprom, controlling almost a fifth of the world’s gas reserves, supplies more than half of Ukraine’s, and about 30% of Europe’s gas annually. Just one month before Nuland’s speech at the National Press Club, Ukraine signed a $10 billion shale gas deal with US energy giant Chevron “that the ex-Soviet nation hopes could end its energy dependence on Russia by 2020.” The agreement would allow “Chevron to explore the Olesky deposit in western Ukraine that Kiev estimates can hold 2.98 trillion cubic meters of gas.” Similar deals had been struck already with Shell and ExxonMobil.
The move coincided with Ukraine’s efforts to “cement closer relations with the European Union at Russia’s expense”, through a prospective trade deal that would be a step closer to Ukraine’s ambitions to achieve EU integration. But Yanukovych’s decision to abandon the EU agreement in favour of Putin’s sudden offer of a 30% cheaper gas bill and a $15 billion aid package provoked the protests.
To be sure, the violent rioting was triggered by frustration with Yanukovych’s rejection of the EU deal, along with rocketing energy, food and other consumer bills, linked to Ukraine’s domestic gas woes and abject dependence on Russia. Police brutality to suppress what began as peaceful demonstrations was the last straw.
But while Russia’s imperial aggression is clearly a central factor, the US effort to rollback Russia’s sphere of influence in Ukraine by other means in pursuit of its own geopolitical and strategic interests raises awkward questions. As the pipeline map demonstrates, US oil and gas majors like Chevron and Exxon are increasingly encroaching on Gazprom’s regional monopoly, undermining Russia’s energy hegemony over Europe.
Ukraine is caught hapless in the midst of this accelerating struggle to dominate Eurasia’s energy corridors in the last decades of the age of fossil fuels.
For those who are pondering whether we face the prospect of a New Cold War, a better question might be – did the Cold War ever really end?
34 Comments on "Ukraine crisis is about Great Power oil, gas pipeline rivalry"
Northwest Resident on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 6:59 pm
I think this is a very good article, one that does a pretty good job of presenting all the factors that are influencing the situation in Ukraine without all the hype and conspiracy theory mongering that so many articles have engaged in.
Wasn’t it just last week that we had several American-hating posters on this site accusing America of financing and directing a proxy war against Russia. That was B.S. and I’m glad that nobody is pushing that B.S. anymore.
America trying to influence who gets elected in a totally corrupt third-world country, with the goal of getting a government in place that is more friendly to American oil and business interests? How evil, how rotten, how utterly despicable of America. The evil, world-dominating, humanity destroying empire strikes again. And the sinister goal of the evil Nuland and her government cronies — try to get a government in place that respects the wishes of the Ukraine people, opens up areas to gas/oil extraction, generates enough wealth to kick start the Ukrainian economy and make life a little less miserable for them.
After all, Russia has had plenty of time to help Ukraine, but it looks like Russia is much more interested in keeping Ukraine subjugated than in assisting Ukraine to achieve economic and social self-reliance.
In the meantime, nobody wants the rioting and violence to interfere with the regular flow of oil/gas through Ukraine pipelines. This whole thing will play out on the economic and diplomatic level, imo, very little to no chance of military confrontation between east/west. Most likely, we’ll see a Ukraine emerge that has closer ties to the west, with Russia getting security and economic guarantees that keep them happy (and they must be kept happy), and the Ukrainian people will be better off. At least, for a little while longer. This IS all playing out in the “last decades of the age of fossil fuels” — or more likely, the last decade (not plural) of the age of fossil fuels.
Think of the events unfolding in Ukraine as some of the last-minute maneuvering being done by TPTB before TSHTF, and you probably won’t be too far off.
Steve on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 8:13 pm
“try to get a government in place that respects the wishes of the Ukraine people, opens up areas to gas/oil extraction, generates enough wealth to kick start the Ukrainian economy and make life a little less miserable for them.” Not so fast…
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article37876.htm
Northwest Resident on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 8:56 pm
Steve — There are many speculative, biased and totally unsubstantiated claims in that article. The tone is one that would tend to appeal to conspiracy theorists with a vested interest in portraying America in the worst possible light.
The writer of that linked article has a solid background in right-wing politics, which might explain the bias that tends to dominate the tone of the linked article.
http://www.vdare.com/users/paul-craig-roberts
Some good points, but too much hyperbole and unfounded assertions — I’ll stick with what I think I know, for now.
Steve on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 9:09 pm
Fair enough. Here’s more: http://cluborlov.blogspot.com/2014/03/chronology-of-ukrainian-coup.html
Northwest Resident on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 9:35 pm
Steve — from that cluborlov article:
“Let’s be clear about what is at stake here: NATO missiles on the adjacent Ukraine border aimed directly at Russia would make that country extremely vulnerable to Western goals and destabilization efforts while threatening Russia’s only water access to its naval fleet in Crimean peninsula, the Balkans, the Mediterranean Sea and the Middle East – and not the least of which would allow world economic dominance by the US, the European Union, the IMF, World Bank and international financiers all of whom had already brought staggering suffering to millions around the globe.”
Not very objective analysis, in my opinion. The writer asserts that what is at stake are NATO missiles right on the Russian border — which assumes that the goal of NATO/USA is to move said nuclear missiles onto Ukraine territory — which strikes me as absurd speculation stated as “fact”. I believe that we already have “world economic dominance by the US, etc…”, so there isn’t much if anything to gain by blackmailing Russia with nuclear missiles right on their border, but a lot to lose. “US, European Union, the IMF, World Bank and international financiers all of whom had already brought staggering suffering to millions around the globe.” I won’t argue with that statement, though there are numerous other ways to look at it — I think it tends to be overly dramatic.
This Ukraine episode has generated a massive amount of speculation, conspiracy theory mongering, false accusations and pure B.S. — all stated as fact.
But hey, thanks for the link!
DC on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 10:02 pm
Note:’biased and speculative and unsubstantiated claims’ is code for, little too close to the truth, in some quarters anyhow….
The people of Ukraine are already being set up for an IMF ‘structural adjustment program’. Debt slavery to the western banking cartels was planned long before the Kiev putsch. Want to know what the first thing the uS, sorry, IMF is demanding? An end to energy subsidies. No why is the uS demanding that? The IMF isn’t demanding an end to oil subsidies in the Us itself as part of any pending bailout of amerika is it? If the whole thing is about ending corruption and bringing peace love and capitalism 2.0 to the people of Ukraine, why is IMF setting itself up as the de-facto gov’t of Ukraine, and doing it so rapidly?
As soon as Czechoslovakia and Poland were safely in the EU, NATO membership followed and both now host uS missile bases and radar sites, ostensibly, to protect against Irans vast nuclear arsenal(of zero weapons). The uS seeks nothing less than to place missile bases and troops directly on Russia’s borders. IF that is permitted to happen, amerikas terrorist operatives will have a free hand to pour into Russia itself, the same way Us backed terrorists flood into Syria from NATO ally, Turkey and satraps Jordon. Same idea.
Myself, I would love to the Us response to Canada or Mexico joining a military defence alliance with Russia or China. I am sure the response from washington would be positively glowing. Glowing radioactively that is.
Northwest Resident on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 10:26 pm
DC — I love your lunatic rants. Keep them coming.
“As soon as Czechoslovakia and Poland were safely in the EU, NATO membership followed and both now host uS missile bases and radar sites,”
Wrong. As is so frequently the case in your overly vivid and sinister conspiracy-consumed mind.
On September 17, 2009, Obama administration announced that plans for the project had been scrapped. Those proposed missile interceptor (not offense, defense) installations weren’t supposed to be installed until 2018 anyway. Read it here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_missile_defense_complex_in_Poland
I just don’t have time or interest to rip your false claims and wild conspiracy theories apart piece by piece, DC. I’m tempted sometimes, but what good would it do?
DC on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 10:36 pm
Dont get outside very often do you NWR?
http://rickrozoff.wordpress.com/2014/03/07/top-nato-body-invited-to-ukraine-gravest-threat-to-europe-since-cold-war/
They dont waste do much time do they?
Northwest Resident on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 11:24 pm
DC — Thanks for the link. Now I see where you get so much of your conspiracy theory material from. Great stuff. BTW, I get outside frequently. I recommend that you take a break from all the conspiracy theory hype and do the same.
Davy, Hermann, MO on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 12:48 am
NR said:
I love your lunatic rants. Keep them coming.
I recommend that you take a break from all the conspiracy theory hype and do the same.
DC, you are one sided and you suffer the tendency of exaggeration. When I hear your rants I tune you out. “IF” you had balance and moderation in your arguments I would like to hear what you have to say. I want to know the truth. I do not care if it means my country is in a negative light. When I get force fed your anti-American rants it turns me off. You don’t care about the truth. Your concern is a message of hate America, American culture, American businesses, and anyone allied to America. Give it break man.
Steve on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 12:55 am
“When six corporations control more than 90% of media communications, the media does not inform, it indoctrinates. Corporate media provides selective information, often unreliable, for the express purpose of controlling public opinion, rather than informing it.” -Egberto Willies and Keyan Bliss
Just sayin….
Makati1 on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 1:18 am
NWR, The West IS funding this revolution and it only partly has to do with oil or gas. Mostly, it has to do with surrounding Russia, like it is trying to do with China. If it was oil and gas, there are other, less dangerous ways to get around the Ukraine. It’s ALL about getting missiles on Russia’s border. I still say this is going to escalate out of control before it is over. We shall see.
Makati1 on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 1:22 am
Some on here don’t want to see reality and like to think a few of us are crazy…lol. Well, believe what you want. Many believed that WW1 would never happen, the Stock Market would never crash (1929), and that Hitler would not kill them (Jews). Most were so into the system ($$$) that they preferred to ignore reality rather than lose what they had gained. Then they lost it all.
Davy, Hermann, MO on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 1:23 am
Makati, you have no clue about missiles!! There is no need with today’s technology to have missiles on an adversaries borders. In fact that would be counterproductive.
Steve on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 1:36 am
Any of this true? http://www.alternet.org/world/35-countries-where-us-has-supported-fascists-druglords-and-terrorists?paging=off¤t_page=1#bookmark
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Perkins_(author)
Steve on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 2:31 am
“The Ukraine is strategically-important for a number of reasons. It sits astride enormous petroleum and natural gas deposits found in the Black Sea region. The nation is also home to an extensive network of liquid natural gas pipelines which crisscross it; control the Ukraine and you control its pipelines – and thus the flow of energy into the hugely-lucrative European market.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-07/guest-post-obama-and-putin-are-trapped-macho-game-chicken
Makati1 on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 2:56 am
Davy: Think about warning times.
A missile 500 miles away, in Europe, gives Russia maybe 10-15 minutes warning to get planes in the air and missiles flying.
A missile 10 miles away is almost instantaneous. NO warning time.
Time is a big advantage in today’s world. Would a nuclear armed sub 100 miles off the East Coast near DC be more dangerous than a sub 1,000 miles off the coast? Time is the advantage in today’s world.
pete on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 3:43 am
pete on Fri, 7th Mar 2014 3:13 am
Victoria Nuland U.S state dept. same one who used the f bomb about euro union.
“5 billion spent over 20 years by U.S. promoting democracy”
Estonia F.M. talking to Catherine Ashton
“snipers firing at both protestors and police hired by Maiden leaders”
tape just released. courtesy S.B.U.
Olga Bogomolets was head doctor of maiden mobile clinic, she gave the F.M. the evidence and also turned down the job of vice Prime minister of Humanitarian affairs by coup regime.
Ignorance is deadly in todays world.
posted yesterday proven, in part, today.
GO DC, I saw NWR for the shill he is long ago.
DC on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 4:30 am
Thats not very appropo NW? The video is official NATO. The site its hosted on? Yes, its anti-Nato with relevant comments and observations. I dont see where the ‘conspiracy’ part comes into any of it. Nato-izing Ukraine is vera vera important to the uS elites. They want something for that 5 billion, they printed out of thin air you now.
Do you even deny the IMF is already making ready on tightening the austerity noose around the peoples of Ukraines neck? P.G.R. seems to think so too…
There is nothing particularly subtle about that aspect of things. Reuters and AP are quite open about the IMFs plans for Ukraine.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/03/06/looting-ukraine-begun/
These actions- have their ultimate cause, as it were, with the uS elites, and to lesser extent, its satraps.
Northwest Resident on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 5:49 am
pete, DC — Okay. You guys win.
You’ve proven to me that the Obama admin, NATO, IMF and all the others are implementing an evil, deadly plot against Russia, and that their intent is to move nuclear missiles into Ukraine (just like they did in Poland and Czechoslovakia, right DC, except for they didn’t) — and that the reason for all this is so that they can gain blackmail power over Russia, take control of Ukraine to further enrich themselves, and to gain ultimate power in the world. To accomplish this, they will crash the world economy, they will sacrifice thousands and millions of lives, they will stop at nothing to succeed at their evil, gruesome plan. Not even Europe’s disapproval and dire risk of economic collapse is enough to stop the evil plan from going forward. And of course, Russia will allow NATO and the evil despicable Americans to move those nuclear missiles right up to their border without doing anything about it. You know this, the evil Americans know it, and of course the Russians know it.
Yeah, I got it DC.
Hey, pete — shill? For who? In your fact-driven world, how is it that I qualify as a “shill”? Do you even know what the word means?
Like I said DC, I love the conspiracy theories. Although I definitely think your intensely anti-American and dark world vision POV is way far out there, you probably couldn’t have found a more on-topic site to post your rants against America and your “fact based” conspiracy theories.
Makati1 on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 7:11 am
Conspiracy … is the method of choice today. Denial is not going to change it.
MSN fanboy on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 8:03 am
lol you guys. There is no good and bad. Your fighting over a dichotomy that does not exist :P. Your both right and wrong lol America is ‘Evil’ and America is ‘good’, two sides of the same coin.
Arthur on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 8:16 am
NRW, you are naive. You want to interpret events in a moral framework, and pretend that Nuland’s motivation is to provide the Ukraine with a ‘better future’ (to be funded by EU taxpayers). And if people don’t agree with your assessment, you accuse them of ‘anti-Americanism’ (a sort of anti-semitism for the goyim), where in reality interests of Americans and non – Americans simply diverge. The article is fairly realistic and is honest about what’s happening in the Ukraine: a frontal attack against Russian interests in an attempt to rip the Ukraine out of the sphere of Russian influence and thereby potentially pushing Europe into a conflict with Russia nobody wants, not even the US most loyal lapdog, the UK.
Arthur on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 8:54 am
A bit more about my and others so called ‘anti-Americanism’… I read many American columnists on a daily basis, usually from a paleo – conservative or libertarian background, like PCR, Buchanan, Ron Paul, Raimondo, Margolis, Bill Lind, and a host of others. Probably my most favorite columnist is Free Reed, who is writing from a Southern perspective. Two days ago he wrote an article about ‘yankees’, that makes me think of NRW:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2014/03/fred-reed/notes-of-a-fed-up-southerner/
‘Yankee’ is a mocking contraction of the two most common Dutch first names at the time, Jan and Kees (today it is Muhamed), used by British imperial overlords to describe Euro-American colonists. NRW’s moralism is rooted in North American Calvinism, a Dutch export product, next to Gouda cheese and tulips. Until this very day, whenever our PM Mark Rutte visits Wlad, he lectures him about human & gay rights and Wlad, the shrewd politician politely listens and nods and waits until the representative of that shuttle little country finally leaves. After all, his daughter is married to a Dutchan and lives in the Netherlands and Holland is one of the biggest Russian trading partners.
P.S. One of the main reasons of my scepticism towards US policy is the fact that Jan and Kees are no longer the most common first names in the Netherlands. Being a member of the US empire implies committing auto-sociocide. Thanks, but no thanks.
Davy, Hermann, MO on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 12:15 pm
DC, Makati, Arthur, and others the tone of NR post is right on. You message is soiled by your anti American message you struggle to get out. You would have much more of an impact if you had balance. It is like watching FOX news here in the states. Fox followers are so bent on being anti-liberal that they box in their message and become comical in the process. I agree the Ukrainian issue is being driven by a US bent towards destabilization of the Russian sphere of influence over the Ukrainian. The amount and degree of that policy is on the low side. There are far more important issues in the world for the US to totally fixate on this issues. Let us face it Russia is bent on the same against the US anywhere it is an issue. The same is true for China, Iran, Venezuela, and multiple lessor backward states.
Arthur said – bit more about my and others so called ‘anti-Americanism’… I read many American columnists on a daily basis, usually from a paleo – conservative or libertarian background, like PCR, Buchanan, Ron Paul, Raimondo, Margolis, Bill Lind, and a host of others. Probably my most favorite columnist is Free Reed, who is writing from a Southern perspective. Two days ago he wrote an article about ‘yankees’, that makes me think of NRW
Geez Arthur, if this is what you read about America no wonder you thinking is warped. I would love to know DC’s sources probably some off the wall blog he reads everyday then regurgitates it here. Makati who knows with him. I find his discussions so riddles with disinformation and bad facts that I doubt he reads anything. It is just in his head.
You guys get a life and start working with ideas that are not so far fetched. Get off your cold war bent. Give it up on your conspiracy theories. We don’t need the extreme political theater you guys preach here. We need hard info that relates to the risks we face from PO and other destabilizing issues. The theater is for elsewhere!
Arthur on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 2:58 pm
Let us face it Russia is bent on the same against the US anywhere it is an issue.
No, it is not. Both in Syria and Ukraine Russia is in the defensive position.
Geez Arthur, if this is what you read about America no wonder you thinking is warped.
So what’s your source? CNN?
Seriously, this is what is going to happen if the West pushes Russia too far in the corner:
http://www.infowars.com/economist-warns-of-collapse-risk-will-not-allow-life-to-continue-as-we-know-it/
Sorry Davy, the clip is not from CNN, but again, from the ‘internet underground’. Probably not ‘balanced’ enough for you.
Northwest Resident on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 4:10 pm
“NRW, you are naive.” — Or, alternatively, you (Arthur) are so wrapped up in your own dark world outlook and your tendency to buy in to conspiracy theories that to you, anyone who doesn’t see the brooding evil all around is “naïve”. There are always different ways to interpret complex events and you, along with a couple others who post here, will always go with the most evil, most sinister and most plotting interpretation of events. It is how your mind works.
I don’t disagree that America plays hardball, that the government and TPTB drive a very hard bargain and sometimes, perhaps frequently, make decisions that have a very Machiavellian bent. There is no doubt a lot of plotting, a lot of sneaky ploys and a lot of behind-the-scenes intrigue involved. But that’s just life in the real world. All major nations are involved in the same activity, they all “do it”, always have and always will, but your focus is only on America. You leap to believe the darkest and most evil possible motivations that can be attributed to America. It is what you want to believe.
America plotting to move nuclear missiles onto the border of Russia by taking over Ukraine through proxy wars or other subterfuge is a joke of epic proportions — you just don’t realize how foolish your warped conspiracies appear to others.
Steve on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 4:50 pm
NWR, Please see my “Any of this true?” comment above. For “some” reason, it was “pending moderation” over night, so you may have missed it. What’s that famous quotation, “Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts absolutely”? And for your further consideration, I offer this http://www.ae911truth.org/ Please focus on building 7, the one NOT hit… Thanks
Northwest Resident on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 6:19 pm
Steve — I am a believer when it comes to the question of “was 911 a planned and coordinated event”. It seems obvious to me that it was. I have already posted here my “conspiracy theory” that 911 was carried out with the prime objective of mobilizing American and world support behind “the war on terror”. The result: Invasion of Afghanistan, massive deployment of troops and equipment into the Middle East, and ultimately the invasion and control of Iraq. The goal was to secure Iraq oil fields and to position heavy military power in the Middle East to gain control over crucial oil shipping lanes and production sites. Mission Accomplished. Without 911, the Americans and the world would never have supported those military conquests, and without the lies and the propaganda, they would never have supported the Iraq invasion.
There is an argument to be made that in the grand scheme of things, America had to do what it did. Without absolute lock down and control of the Middle East, the world may have already descended into collapse and all the anarchy and chaos that collapse is sure to bring. The argument would go something like this: Sure, many thousands and perhaps a million or more died as a result of those military actions, but had those military actions not been successful, billions would now be dead or dying. Maybe collapse would not have occurred already had they not done what they did, but we all know that collapse IS coming, and when it does, America and The West will have their lock on oil supplies, whether to lessen the impact of that eventual collapse or to insure an oil supply for reboot of Western Civilization after collapse — I don’t know, either seems plausible to me.
As I have often stated on this site, human history has been defined throughout the ages by civilizations and cultures battling to the death for control of vital resources, and today is no different than all prior human history. America and The West — brutal, calculating, deadly? Yes, no question about it. They mean to win, and we see that in all the “deep state” actions. Are they “evil” or “corrupt” because they do what all prior dominate human civilizations have done, or are they merely determined to insure the continuation of their civilization and culture at all costs?
Steve on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 6:49 pm
NWR, I hear you and am heartened by your understanding of 911. I’m concerned about the “they”. “They” are not you and I, nor the vast majority of Americans. You and I could very easily have been in the towers that day (my brother just happened to be on vacation) or have sons and daughters sent over to “secure IRAQ oil”. I’ll leave you (and anyone else reading) this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kJ4SSvVbhLw for your viewing pleasure.
Northwest Resident on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 7:08 pm
“They” are TPTB — and yes, you and I and about seven billion others are expendables. When in human history has it ever been different? My life, your life, your sister’s life — all are trivial when viewed in the grand scheme of things. I accept that. If you ever watched “Saving Private Ryan”, then you’ll recall the scene where they are holed up in a bombed out church, and the Captain’s hands are shaking, and he’s talking to Mike, and he’s explaining that for every soldier under his command that dies, he saves maybe five or ten or more lives. That’s how “they” see it, and “they” couldn’t possibly see it any other way. It is nothing personal against me or you or your sister. There is no brooding evil here, just callousness and Machiavellian methodology. For you and me and everybody else who knows which way the wind is blowing, we have the advantage of being able to stay the heck out of the way, and to prepare for the time which is rapidly approaching when TPTB won’t necessarily be caring about any one of the seven billion that aren’t in their elite club.
Davy, Hermann, MO on Sat, 8th Mar 2014 9:12 pm
NR said – “They” are TPTB — and yes, you and I and about seven billion others are expendables.
This (below) is a small quote from C.S. Lewis on Evil I find relates to the tone of your article.
“I live in the Managerial Age, in a world of “Admin.” The greatest evil is not now done in those sordid “dens of crime” that Dickens loved to paint. It is not done even in concentration camps and labour camps. In those we see its final result. But it is conceived and ordered (moved, seconded, carried, and minuted) in clean, carpeted, warmed and well-lighted offices, by quiet men with white collars and cut fingernails and smooth-shaven cheeks who do not need to raise their voices. Hence, naturally enough, my symbol for Hell is something like the bureaucracy of a police state or the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern.”
Northwest Resident on Sun, 9th Mar 2014 12:06 am
Great quote, Davy. Very meaningful, especially in this day and age. It provokes some deep thoughts on just what is evil. “…the office of a thoroughly nasty business concern.” Hmmm, let me think of a few…
Arthur on Sun, 9th Mar 2014 9:35 am
Great quote indeed. I don’t believe in evil Americans, Germans, Japanese or, heck the sun is shining, Jews. History is made at the top of the power pyramid, by those with the least scrupples. They have a map of the world on a table and treat it like a game of Risk, shifting billions like a croupier in a casino and are thrilled by the power they have. And then they pick up the phone, dial the number of the military headquarters and say: ‘go’.
And the rest is history.