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Page added on April 12, 2017
Tillerson meets with Putin amid deepening tensions over U.S. missile strikes in Syria
The rift between the United States and Russia was laid bare Wednesday when Secretary of State Rex Tillerson held his first direct talks with Russia’s president. Their discussions failed to ease deepening tensions over Syria and Washington’s demands that Moscow abandon its main Middle East ally.
“There is a low level of trust between our countries,” Tillerson said in a news conference with Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov. “The world’s two primary nuclear powers cannot have this kind of relationship.”
Wednesday’s meeting brought no indication that the relationship would improve any time soon.
After Tillerson spent three hours talking with Lavrov and almost two hours at the Kremlin with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Lavrov, sitting three feet from Tillerson, aired a long list of grievances with the United States, some dating back many years.
“Unfortunately, we’ve got some differences with regards to a majority of those issues,” Lavrov lamented.
The only concession that Tillerson appeared to have extracted from the Russians was that Putin offered to restore a hotline aimed at avoiding accidents in the air over Syria. Russia had suspended that effort after U.S. missile strikes on a Syrian air base following an April 4 chemical weapons attack on a village in rebel territory. Even this tiny success was conditional; Lavrov said the deal would apply only if the United States and its allies targeted terrorists — not Syrian President Bashar al-Assad’s forces.
Hopes may never have been high, especially after Russia sounded a defiant note before Tillerson arrived in Moscow. But if this was the chance to find common ground before the Trump administration attempts any new action on Syria, it has ended in failure.
The Russians used Tillerson’s visit as a chance to reassert Moscow’s firm stance on Syria: that it will not abide by any effort to remove Assad from power.
Russia effectively hid from public view the hit that the Kremlin took to its standing in the region because of the chemical weapons attack, presumably by Assad. Just two weeks ago, Russia was in the driver’s seat in Syria, as the lead military and diplomatic player in a peace process involving Turkey, Iran, the Kurds and rebel groups, all orchestrated by Putin. The most important part of this was that the United States was not getting in the way.
In an instant last week, when more than 50 Tomahawk missiles came crashing down around a Syrian air base, that all changed, and since then, the Kremlin has been fighting a rearguard action aimed at dulling the Trump administration’s ultimatum that Russia must change sides or else.
Everything Putin did appeared aimed at minimizing the effect of Tillerson’s visit. He and his officials dismissed U.S. evidence that Assad had carried out the attack, and then Putin added a bombshell prediction of his own: Unnamed forces were going to carry out more chemical weapons attacks and blame them on Assad.
Tillerson reiterated the U.S. belief that Assad ordered the attack, though he stepped back from the U.S. charge that Russia was covering up Assad’s culpability.
“With respect to Russia’s complicity or knowledge of the chemical weapons attack, we have no firm information to indicate that there was any involvement by Russia, Russian forces into this attack,” he said. “What we do know, and we have very firm and high confidence in our conclusions, is the attack was planned and carried out by regime forces at the direction of Bashar al-Assad.”
Lavrov had a ready retort: “This is obviously the subject where our views differ.”
Lavrov called the evidence cited by Tillerson “hypothetical” and demanded that the United Nations investigate. Soon afterward, however, Russia vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution calling for an investigation.
There were only a handful of issues Tillerson and Lavrov said they broadly agreed on — that the Korean Peninsula should be denuclearized, that Syria should be “unified and stable” after the Islamic State is defeated, and that there should be more communication between U.S. and Russian diplomats and militaries. Tillerson said both nations would set up a “working group” to seek ways to ease tensions.
On most issues — the chemical attack and Assad, Russia’s support for separatists fueling conflict in Ukraine, and Russian interference in the U.S. election chief among them — the diplomats offered different explanations and facts.
There were many times when it must not have been easy to be secretary of state Wednesday.
Lavrov seemed to delight in recalling U.S. attempts to oust dictators in Sudan and Libya. He mocked NATO’s military incursion in Kosovo in 1999. He gleefully recalled the nonexistent weapons of mass destruction that led to the invasion of Saddam Hussein’s Iraq. A Russian reporter reminded him that President Trump called Assad an animal, and that White House spokesman Sean Spicer had to apologize for his inept and inaccurate comparison of Assad and Hitler.
Trump himself seemed to deliver the coup de grâce. Shortly after Tillerson and Lavrov finished speaking to reporters, Trump said in a news conference that the United States is “not getting along with Russia at all” and that their relations are at an “all-time low.”
That sounded like something both Lavrov and Tillerson agreed with.
51 Comments on "Tillerson meets with Putin amid deepening tensions over U.S. missile strikes in Syria"
Apneaman on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 9:00 pm
‘The most ill-informed, under-prepared, and psychologically ill-equipped president in US history’
http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/political-news/the-most-illinformed-underprepared-and-psychologically-illequipped-president-in-us-history-20170412-gvk1tf.html
Ba hahaha
Boat on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 9:20 pm
Ape,
Who didn’t know that before the election. Cheeto is entertaining though. The tweets are the best, that man is the best ever at creating his own minefields to step into.
Anonymouse on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 9:40 pm
Yes, retard, we how little it takes to amuse you. Like your gov’ts endless provocations against the worlds other nuclear super-power. Hilarious, to amerikan retards fed a steady diet of CNN bullshit and ramen noodles that is.
GregT on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 9:42 pm
“that man is the best ever at creating his own minefields to step into.”
That man is your supreme leader Boat, your Commander in Chief. That man could have you erased off of the face of the planet in a heartbeat. He couldn’t care less what a lowly peon like yourself thinks about him. He probably made more money last Tuesday morning, than you will in your entire lifetime.
Apneaman on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 9:45 pm
Boat, “Who didn’t know that before the election.”? Most of Trumps glassy eyed voters did and do not know it. Go ahead and get your Google on and look up some videos of his rally’s and interviews with the faithful – they are true believers…..and mouth breathers. Spare me the excuse making boat.
Boat on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 10:41 pm
greggiet,
Lol, what Trump thinks of me ranks right up there with what you think of me. Like I give a shyt America is bigger than any prez and we will preservere. What I do like about Trump is he worries about what other countries think or the Dem’s like I worry about posters here. Who gives a shyt. Maybe Jessie the body Ventura will be the next prez. Another conspiericy nut like most here. Most policy decisions just as crazy.
Boat on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 11:00 pm
Ape,
I have spent most of my life around those mouth breathers. Just because I have many different views they have the same power. One vote per person. Just the way it is. Them Trump supporters have the right to be nasty till they cross the line, then jail, same as any citizen with some cause. As with the rest of the world I just refuse to hate. Even Europe found a measure of peace after WWII including China, Japan, South Korea etc.
GregT on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 11:16 pm
“Lol, what Trump thinks of me ranks right up there with what you think of me.”
I’m guessing that Trump thinks far less about you than I do Kevin.
“Like I give a shyt America is bigger than any prez and we will preservere. ”
America elected Donald Trump as ‘prez’ Boat.
“What I do like about Trump is he worries about what other countries think or the Dem’s like I worry about posters here.”
English please. If you are addressing me, that would be the only language that I am fluent in.
“Maybe Jessie the body Ventura will be the next prez.”
If the US survives through this administration, that would not be the least bit surprising.
“Most policy decisions just as crazy.”
As crazy as provoking the other two global super-powers into nuclear war? Doesn’t get much crazier than that.
Boat on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 11:24 pm
greggiet,
China and Russia will back down or were all dead. Simple as that when nukes come into play. Just the way it is. For now the US is the Alfa dog. Live with it.
Anonymouse on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 11:34 pm
Alfa dog RoFL….
Retard
GregT on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 11:48 pm
“I have spent most of my life around those mouth breathers.”
I believe that the term that so desperately alludes you would be mouth ‘breeders’. Not mouth ‘breathers’.
As far as I am aware, most, if not all, animals on this planet can breathe through their mouths.
“Just because I have many different views they have the same power.”
Sounds rather confusing.
“Them Trump supporters have the right to be nasty till they cross the line, then jail, same as any citizen with some cause.”
‘Them Trump supporters’, happen to be you friends, relatives, neighbours, and fellow Americans Kevin. If you don’t support the democratic principle, move to North Korea.
“As with the rest of the world I just refuse to hate.”
Yet you continue to support your ‘government’ in killing millions of people all around the world. Tell me Boat, after you murder somebody, what other possible means can you think of to show how much that you hate them even more?
GregT on Wed, 12th Apr 2017 11:51 pm
“For now the US is the Alfa dog.”
Alfa dog?
You are one fucked up individual Kevin, in more ways than you can possibly ever understand.
makati1 on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 12:05 am
The U$ is currently killing children and babies in:
Syria
Iraq
Afghanistan
Yemen
Ukraine
Did I miss any current ‘wars’?
Not to mention poking a stick at Russia, N.Korea, Iran and China hoping to get a real war going before the U$ collapse’.
GregT on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 12:09 am
“China and Russia will back down or were all dead.”
The ultimatum. Do as we tell you, our we all die.
GregT on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 12:10 am
‘or’
makati1 on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 12:13 am
Boat doesn’t know that the U$ is NOT the alpha anything. The Russians and Chinese both have better weapon systems than the US. More men to fight and a will to win that the U$ has never had or ever will have. A “snowflake’ army? LMAO
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 2:03 am
“Trump no longer considers NATO obsolete.”
Good boy. European vassals relieved. Their “1989” is postponed with a few years, now that Trump apparently starts to act according to the guidelines of the US deep state. Trump can expect to sit out his one and only term without having to fight around the clock. And if he really caves in they could even tolerate him in a wheel chair; he wouldn’t be the first wheelchair president. Or walker president will be fine as well. As long as he reads from the teleprompter.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/donald-trump-nach-treffen-mit-jens-stoltenberg-nato-nicht-laenger-obsolet-a-1143173.html
It lasted less than three months, that was quick. Nevertheless, perhaps he can still resist a war against Russia, don’t hold your mouth-breathing breath though.
Boat can’t wait for Putin to get “his ass handed over to him”. And neither can sinister Apneaman, but he is smart enough to cover his real intentions (for most).
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 2:13 am
Boat doesn’t know that the U$ is NOT the alpha anything. The Russians and Chinese both have better weapon systems than the US. More men to fight and a will to win that the U$ has never had or ever will have. A “snowflake’ army? LMAO
I don’t think that the US string pullers are stupid enough to wage a land war against either Russia or China. They will attempt to initiate regime change in Moscow, just like in 1917. Putin probably waits for the outcome of the elections in May in France. If le Pen wins (it would be just as a big if as Trump’s victory in November, but not impossible), it would mean that France could leave the EU and move over to Russia-China, which would tilt the balance of power decisively against Washington. In contrast to Trump, Marine le Pen will NOT cave in.
To be fair to Trump, both Marine le Pen and Vladimir Putin didn’t have to face stiff resistance from their own “deep state’s”, after the Austrian and Georgian had done their beneficial work for them in advance, decades earlier.
Boat on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 2:29 am
No Clog,
I don’t think Putin will get his ass handed to him. N Korea denuked and backing down China over the China Sea islands, very possible. Syria losing Assad and kicking Russia out on the Ukraine, very possible. US NATO attacking Russian or China directly on their home lands, no chance.
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 2:53 am
Russia won’t be kicked out of Ukraine, because the ethnic Russians in Donbass and Crimea will resist that.
Syria is a different matter altogether. It would be a loss of prestige for Russia indeed. But it would be hardly a win for the US either, if Jihadists would take over the country, as they are the only alternative for Assad. A Sunny fundamentalist Syria would create a Sunny fundamentalist continuum ranging from Istanbul (bordering Europe) until the Indian Ocean. There is no way that this entity would follow orders from Washington.
Erdogan’s intentions are clear for everybody without blinders on:
https://twitter.com/marklowen/status/777776233564237825
Last Summer Turkey and KSA casted a strategic partnership that changes the geopolitical outlook for the Muslim world:
http://www.atimes.com/article/saudi-arabia-and-turkey-casting-new-strategic-partnership/
KSA is clearly looking for protection from Turkey against Iran. If Erdogan wins his referendum later this month, democracy is as good as over in Turkey. And if Washington thinks it can play out Turkey against Iran, it is badly mistaken. Erdogan has zero interest in antagonizing Iran and will likely have a moderating influence on KSA in this respect. His real enemy is the infidel West and Israel. The real loser in this fight will be Israel, that will be surrounded by Islamic fundamentalism.
https://www.israelrising.com/erdogan-wants-jerusalem-syria/
Israel rising? Think again. I think that most Israelis will eventually end up in Trans-Appalachia in a couple of decades, after the coming breakup of the US and that America’s East coast will be the final destination of the Wandering People.
Regarding Syria… Assad will probably prevail in the West, but the country will be split up, as a compromise between Russia and the US and that a Sunny fundamentalist land-bridge through Eastern Syria and Western Iraq will be formed between Turkey and KSA.
joe on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 3:14 am
The one outcome few seem to consider is why NATO is suddenly so relevant. Trump has flip flopped on every policy promise that he brought forward that the people voted for. It seems obvious that the deadening silence by the people shows that it was Hillary who lost, rather than Trump who won. Lets be honest, Assad would have beaten Killary-de-Libyan-slayer-sellout-meek-wife in an election!
The real issue becomes this, if we have President Marshmallow Flipflop, how far can he be pushed. Be certain, now that he has been reprogrammed as some swap dweller Borg, he will be like Ron Burgandy, he will read EXACTLY whats on the teleprompter.
The Generals now have perfect cover to spend and bomb as much as they want.
The decline of the West is almost assured. NATO relevence will put a stop to silly ideas like an EU army et , just as the British wanted. The EU can die in peace now. Who benefits?
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 3:40 am
Regarding North-Korea… it would be a good idea that both the US and China force this country to nuclear disarm and as such set a precedent for the likes of Pakistan and even Iran or any other nuclear upstart wannabee. The long-term perspective should be a re-united, neutral, capitalist and democratic Korea and a US that has withdrawn from the peninsula.
That’s a solution everybody could live with, except perhaps the US deep state, that doesn’t want to give up on empire.
The EU can die in peace now. Who benefits?
Are you sure? The EU was a convenient tool for Anglosphere supremacy. You won’t like the alternative:
http://assets2.bigthink.com/system/idea_thumbnails/21115/size_896/George_Orwell_map.jpg?1469219803
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahEq3_1gf18
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 4:23 am
Disappointment with Trump for the global European Right is understandable, but it is nevertheless not in its interest to abandon Trump’s presidency. It can be still expected that Trump will at least prevent the worst and in the meantime use the coming four years for China and the European Right to gain in strength and make the realization of a global US empire (NWO) impossible for ever.
Trump may want to build his wall…
https://www.infowars.com/companies-release-trump-border-wall-concepts/
…but it remains to be seen if he succeeds to break through the resistance of the Dems governing California, making the Wall effort essentially futile.
Not that illegal immigration is the most important, legal immigration (of non-whites) is the real deal and that will continue regardless, creating ever greater ethnic tensions within American society.
Theedrich on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 5:04 am
“Lavrov seemed to delight …, “He gleefully recalled …”. Typical Yid way of minimizing the FACTS that the Russian Foreign Minister pointed out. U.S. military actions of recent decades are little more than miserable attempts to repeat its pre-1950 “successes” in using war to enslave countries, and to continue its practice of demanding “unconditional surrender” of those who do not wish to become lackies to Yankeedom. Hence Trump’s, Tillerson’s and wog Haley’s fantasy that Assad’s regime is “coming to its end,” etc.
The only truth that Tillerson uttered was that “[t]here is a low level of trust between our countries.” The idea that U.S. economic sanctions are going to get Russia to give up Crimea or the Донбасс (the basin, or valley, of the Don river) is yet another hallucination on the part of a nation that sees everything in terms of money.
The imperial Godzilla is now trapped in a global web that it can no longer control, no matter what crime it perpetrates. Its population is decadent, its hypocritcal leadership obsessed with how best to induce White genosuicide, and a physical infrastructure crumbling beneath its feet. The propagandistic drivel excreted by its mainstream media only drives the herd all the faster toward the grave.
Davy on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 5:38 am
Somewhere in the back of my mind I want to think Tillerson and Putin spoke frankly and off the record. We know both Tillerson and Trump admire Putin and Russia. I am not sure how much Trump trust Tillerson. If Trump has that deeper trust Tillerson could have delivered a Trump message of hope. Maybe this is part of a longer term plan. Trump and Putin will exhibit poor relations over Syria only to allow a bigger deal down the road. The neocons and the liberal “cons” will not allow good relations. Trump knows he can’t win that fight at least now. Trump and Putin are gamers. Trump likes the business deal and Putin the chess playing geopolitical master. I am sure at a minimum they put forth something in that regard. Both leaders love the “deal”. The bigger the better.
You can try to describe Trump through a political lens but then you are missing who he is. You can be intellectually lazy Anglosphere type that hates anything American so is immediately clueless by bias to what could be deeper meaning. They lying liberal fake news types likewise hate Trump so completely they have no room in their bias for any kind of balanced views of Trump. I like Trumps unpredictability in the age of the predictable status quo. I think Trump has a lot of surprises in store for everyone including the Russians. People want to label him a sellout and a new swamp creature but he has likely only become more dangerous. Some of you dumbasses were talking assassination only weeks ago. That shows how makati some of you are.
The sad thing about saying anything positive about Trump here is board binaries then label you. I am a doomer and follow no party ideology. I am concern with collapse and how that is going to affect my local. I have been unequivocal about this for years on this board. I believe we are well on the way in a collapse process. We have just entered the inflection zone of turbulence, limits, and paradoxes. I am a tree hugger and global egalitarian but I also believe fences make good neighbors. I enjoy calling out assholes and hypocrites of which the board is replete. I myself am an unwilling one. I don’t want to be that but that is the nature of war. The world and this board are at war and that can only mean one thing.
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 5:54 am
Have to admit that Davy’s thoughts crossed my mind as well yesterday. History is full with deceptions and fooling the opponent [*]. Perhaps a secret channel between Trump and Putin exists and did they agree on a stunt. The damage the US strike inflicted on Syria is minimal only. Now the kosher run deep state thinks they have Trump in their pocket.
I know, wishful thinking.
[*]
1. In 1914 the British fooled the German Kaiser in thinking that the UK would remain neutral and an honest broker between Germany and France/Russia, after an explicit question by the Kaiser to that effect. The British were not neutral. They intentionally let the Germans invade Belgium and all of a sudden remembered some vague decades old UK-Belgian treaty of mutual assistance and declared war. Germany was now trapped in a war planned by the British since 1891 to get rid of a rising geopolitical competitor.
2. In 1939 Stalin fooled Hitler in thinking that he could come to the aid of his beleaguered fellow Germans, forced to live in Versailles Poland and avoid a 2-front war by keeping the USSR neutral (Molotov-Ribbentrop-accord). In reality the USA, USSR and UK Churchill war party had agreed on the destruction of Germany by the mid-thirties. What Stalin achieved was that Germany now bordered the USSR.
3. Holotale and literally everything related to WW2.
High time for a global geopolitical reset, before Europeans worldwide vanish from the face of this earth, as the Soros/Apneaman’s of this world passionately hope.
joe on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 6:02 am
Davy, that makes you a true conservative in my view. You just got totally betrayed by Trump, when he caved in to the Kushner half of the tribe he litterally broke the law, not in some fake news way, he litterally bombed another country that the US was never attacked by nor the US declared war on. Thats important. He has completely followed blindly what PNAC wanted, Bush and Obama did. So long as he gets his get rich taxes passed and cuts red tape for his friends and gets a symbolic wall he will say he succeeded, but the US may be harmed forever. Racial issues exploited by the left, ignored by the right, mass poverty just another recession away, religious strife as Islam expands and grows and adds fuel to the flames etc.
Europe is not looking so good these days for all the tolerance and acceptance it showed for decades. 9-11, neeed any more be mentioned?
Trump is just another ignorant billionaire who wants you think hes a success, nothing else matters. Bannon thought his meal ticket was totally brainwashed, but Bannon got schooled by the deep state.
I really quake for what will follow Trump. It really could be Kanye West, the way US politics is falling apart.
joe on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 6:07 am
Cloggie, do you see how that US/UK (Nato) allience has now got its way again? They may have laid a trap for Hitler, but you are saying he was a poor fool and the weak and stupid Germans are biddable as sheep? If so, still not respecting Germans much dude.
Davy on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 6:20 am
“Davy, that makes you a true conservative in my view.” Joe, you are an Anglosphere nut case with bizarre contradictory views of the world so that is what I would expect out of you. You are obsessed with the US and like other Anglos need to be doing more self-reflection at your own poop filled nest.
“he litterally broke the law,” grow up Joe, there is no “law” in the world there is only moral hazard.
Joe, you fail to see Trump is a narcissist and a gamers. He could give a shit about PNAC and money. He is about power and winning. If he does anything in their regards it is ultimately in his regards. His friends are only his friends if they are on his side. He is extremely hard on those who double cross him. You are a political binary simpleton type that fails to see what makes Trump tick. I see that from your statement: “Trump is just another ignorant billionaire”
“I really quake for what will follow Trump. It really could be Kanye West, the way US politics is falling apart.” What’s new Joe. It is falling apart but not the way it was supposed to for an Anglo anti-American like you. Trump hood winked you and will continue to because of your ingrained biased attitudes. You are about as bad as the Canadians on this board that have nothing to do but talk about the US. Do you even have a country? I never hear you guys talk about it.
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 7:17 am
They may have laid a trap for Hitler, but you are saying he was a poor fool and the weak and stupid Germans are biddable as sheep? If so, still not respecting Germans much dude.
Can’t believe my luck. So you admit to my story and you basically conclude that you and your US and Soviet buddies mass-murdered the Germans by design and threw Europe into the abyss with it. Thanks for your simpleton honesty.
I nowhere say that the Germans were “poor fools”. They didn’t have much choice to begin with. What should they have done? Let the Poles slaughter and ethnically cleanse Versailles-Poland, backed as they thought they were by the Americans, British and French (in reality the Poles were the useful idiots of Churchill and Roosevelt to get the desired war in Europe started)? There were already 100,000 German refugees from Poland in Germany. Already in 1939 the Poles had the intention to ethnically cleanse East-Prussia, something they finally carried out in 1945, completely backed by the Allies. After the war the Alllies explained that as “Germany starting WW2”.
The Germans are the backbone of the white race, the English not so much. For me Britain is like a boat that needs to be pushed as far away as possible into the Atlantic and apply for membership as the 52nd US state. This Brexit episode should be used to the hilt to create conflict with Britain, with the backing of entire Eurasia, after some quiet diplomacy first.
https://www.rt.com/viral/384537-leicester-fans-riot-madrid-gibraltar/
In geopolitics it is not easy to remain #1, because you can be sure that #2 and #3 and #4 will conspire together to topple the #1. That’s what happened between 1933-1945 with Europe, #1 since 1492, that was intentionally destroyed by #2 USA and #3 USSR, who cooperated since 1933 with that aim.
Kosher run Anglosphere is now #1.
Europe #2, China #3 and Russia #4.
Try to let your situation sink in.
TheNationalist on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 10:25 am
The great game continues. Surely referendums are not to be feared so much Cloggie?. Britain does not hate Europe, they are part of it for christs sake!
Nobody I know voted for any of the zionist bullshit you’ve mentioned. But I agree with your assessment on much of it as it happened as part of an oppressive Empire and the great game.
I wish no offense to your beliefs but there is certainly no more angst there then between Dutch speaking Flanders and the French speaking south of Belgium?
Why do so many Europeans confuse the continent and its free people with the E.U. politicians in Strasbourg and their current adminstrative set up ?. Politics of fear perhaps? More centralised power is democracy? Surely they are two very different things. Wilders, Farage and Le Pen surely think so.
Common enemies are everywhere Cloggie but people are being wedged apart by powerful players, why take the bait and be a pawn?
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 10:57 am
Trump: “US & Russia ‘will work out fine’: Trump promises ‘lasting peace’”
https://www.rt.com/usa/384633-trump-russia-lasting-peace/
As I said: it is not in the interest of right-wingers to distance ourselves from Trump prematurely. I still (want to) believe that somehow he meant what he said during the campaign:
– yuge Wall
– peace with Russia , bigly
– balanced trade
– promote the interests of European America for a change
– tell the Europeans to invest more in defense
– keep criticizing idiotic European immigration policies, notably that of Merkel.
joe on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 11:03 am
Whats anti American? America has a finger in every countries pie so yes, the world has a right to an opinion. If the US followed Trumps election pitch, we wouldnt be talking about this, instead we would focus on his AMERICA FIRST rhetoric. Anyway, its not clear what the next step is. So far its nothing. As for moral hazard, UBL could not have said it better. If the US minded its own business more then fewer people would have an opinion. You always have the option of totally ignoring me, its your right. Rights are nice aren’t they?
As for clogiots ‘you admit it’, eh, im just glad I made your day man, go have a spliff man, but seriously, it was all Hitler dude.
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 11:19 am
Britain does not hate Europe, they are part of it for christs sake!
Are you sure? Over the last hundred years we have seen the Kaiser, the Austrian and Rudolf Hess virtually begging the British for an alliance/peace, even deep into the war in 1941, when the Germans knew a Soviet attack was immanent, but they were always snubbed and subsequently destroyed. If the British have any pro-continental European feelings, they sure know how to hide it.
And now there is Brexit. Nobody pushed Britain out, they did it themselves and they are free to go.
My survival strategy for our kind of people: continental Europe, Russia, Heartland USA. And that’s it. Amerikaner, French, Germans and Russians. Culture circle + military alliance. No George Soros types. He + Israel can have the US East coast to play mini-NWO with.
Why do so many Europeans confuse the continent and its free people with the E.U. politicians in Strasbourg and their current adminstrative set up ?. Politics of fear perhaps? More centralised power is democracy? Surely they are two very different things. Wilders, Farage and Le Pen surely think so.
I have all my life been pro-European institutional unity, with the thought in the back of my mind to at some point stop being a US colony. After 2000 I made a “sharp turn to the right” and my enthusiasm for the EU proportionally went South hand in hand with it. Nevertheless, I absolutely do not want to go back to hard-core nationalism, with the risk of a repetition of 1914/1939. So some sort of European institutional roof is required. My attitude has always been, since 1974, not just since 2000, that the principle of subsidiarity should rule (everything that can be done at a lower level, should be done at a lower level).
So, in principle no European cooperation whatsoever, apart from those cases when it makes sense (defense, energy, aero-space, agriculture, currency, Europol, Euro as a business currency, climate change, etc.).
Not: education, healthcare, migration, pensions, transport, justice, etc.
This centralizing “ever closer union” idea should be rejected. We don’t need a European Parliament or Commission. A rotating council of ministers, like in the days of the EEC, was good enough.
Regarding le Pen, I have no idea what she wants with Europe, probably nothing, although she pays some lip service to the Gaullist idea of the “Europe of the Fatherlands”. Furthermore she has very backwards (socialist) ideas regarding the economy and social security. The only thing I really like about her is her pro-Putin and anti-immigration stance, the same reason why I voted for Wilders, as a protest vote to break with the status quo, although I am against almost everything he stands for.
Apneaman on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 11:31 am
Hair clog how can loser spineless inbreeds be the backbone of anything? If the Germans are so great how come you are typing in English? According to your beloved social Darwin theory the superior people will dominate. So whoever is currently running the world is there by natural law right? Why is it you are complaining then? If the Jews are on top it’s because they out smarted everyone, yet you keep bitching about it. Do you think anyone ever got to rule by spending all their time bitching and moaning like a little bitch? Sour grapes – your entire 70 plus years has been nothing but one big bitching session. You and all the other LOSER white supremacists. All the while others were using that time to study and save and strategize and make alliances and improve. I read German publications and read comments from German people and the majority of them do not share your ideas, so why do you continue to talk as if you are their elected spokesman? Hair clog knows best. Tell yourself old man. An inability to accept things in this fucked upped world is a one way ticket to bitterness, but, for many, it appears to be the reason for living. Cloggie gonna right history’s wrongs via his keyboard. Gives you a reason to get up in the morning. Something to look forward to eh? What else is terrified human to do in a meaningless universe, world and existence? Gotta make sum shit up eh? Keep up the bad work and keep us posted on the progress of the 4th Reich.
Dredd on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 11:36 am
Cognitive fireworks a la the 4th of July (When You Are Governed By Psychopaths – 7).
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 11:48 am
If the Germans are so great how come you are typing in English?
Because that’s the only language morons like you understand. When I post on German forums I post in German.
If the Jews are on top it’s because they out smarted everyone, yet you keep bitching about it.
Apneasnot, that’s what you would like, but in life there is never a status quo that is permanent. And you may have organized the destruction of Europe in 1945, this time the strategic picture is far better for Europe. New cards, new game. You never had China. You lost Russia to Stalin and again to Putin. You will lose Europe to anti-immigration populists eventually and that Europe (including Russia) will ensure that even America will be liberated from globalism.
your entire 70 plus years has been nothing but one big bitching session.
Mind you, I am 126 years old, thanks to Bulgarian yogurt. Furthermore you know nothing about me, I am much longer here than you, when even I believed in peak oil=now BS (for short 10 months or so in 2012). But I keep fighting and that irritates you mightily, these continental European intruders on what you consider as your turf, where you are not used to resistance.
You and all the other LOSER white supremacists.
Make that separatists, Friedman. Spare us these fake SPLC/ADL buzzwords. Superior, who? Us?
http://tinyurl.com/mvmxww4
http://bdheadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/04/FotorCreated-167.jpg
Apneaman on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 3:06 pm
hair clogs fantasy girls. The repressed love the repressed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/RepressedGoneWild/
Cloggie on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 3:36 pm
Apneasnot is so unrepressed that not even his mother’s sofa is safe for him.
Apneaman on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 5:00 pm
Hair clog
“but in life there is never a status quo that is permanent.”
I agree with that. That is yet another contradictory statement/idea from you. If a particular race or culture was soooooo fucking superior then they would not need to worry about getting their turn as the status quo because they would always be #1 now wouldn’t they. As soon as someone else becomes the new status quo then it disproves any bullshit theories of greatness by default. C’mon if the Germans and their sub tribes like the Dutch were so damn hot we would have never have heard from you. Your comments go from bragging how great eurotards are to bitching and making excuses for why they are not – cause somebody done them wrong. Basically you are complaining that things are not the way they are ‘supposed’ to be.
People who are truly great don’t make excuses – don’t need to and only the most insecure and wannabe’s (you) spend their time and energy telling others how great they are. The truly great don’t need to because it’s obvious to everyone.
The other big contradiction you and the other losers like you (douchy) make is blaming liberals (other whites) for your problems/”white suicide”. Again, if your claims of superiority by default were true then those people would not exist. Could not exist within your culture. If a large segment of people from the same race and same culture are the reason why you have lost ground and are going to collapse then y’all cannot be great by default. Y’all never actually sat down and thought it out did ya? Or maybe you lack the cognitive abilities to see the very obvious flaws in your thinking? What y’all are really trying to say, but lack the balls, is that ‘we’ (those who share the same fantasies) are the superior ones and if we just get rid of the “bad/wrong” ones then our society will be live in perfect harmony like the Coco Cola commercial except all white. Thing is that has been thought and tried and to date has always ended in failure along with all other human plans/tribes/societies. In fact it ends sooner and badly more than any organic cultures do. You’re 72 and in about that same number of years the humans will be gone or almost gone off the evolutionary stage, so your barking is much ado about nothing.
DerHundistlos on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 9:17 pm
@ Boat
” One vote per person. Just the way it is.”
You are not referring to the US regarding your comment otherwise Gore would been elected in 2000 since he won the popular vote. Then the supreme court intervened via judicial fiat to appoint Bush president. Same in 2016. Hillary won the popular vote by 4.000.000 and it did not matter.
GregT on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 9:25 pm
Europeans were dark-skinned until 8,000 years ago: Pale complexions were brought to Europe from the Near East
It has been at the root of division and persecution for centuries, but it seems that the white skin of most modern Europeans did not evolve in Europe at all.
Genetic analysis has shown that hunter gatherers living in Spain up to 8,500 years ago still had dark skin.
It was not until 7,800 years ago, when the first farmers migrated from the Near East through Turkey that two key genes that provide lighter skin appeared.
DNA analysis obtained from ancient human remains has shown that as these farmers bred with the dark skinned hunter gatherers, one of these genes became prevalent in the European population and European’s skin colour began to lighten.
The research, which was presented at the 84th annual meeting of the American Association of Physical Anthropologists, shows that populations in Europe were still evolving until relatively recently.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3028813/Europeans-dark-skinned-8-000-years-ago-Pale-complexions-brought-Europe-Near-East-study-claims.html
GregT on Thu, 13th Apr 2017 9:59 pm
DerHundistlos,
Your comment to Boat will fall on deaf ears. According to him, Texans know more about the game of football, than they know about their political system.
Theedrich on Fri, 14th Apr 2017 3:21 am
The Brits are race traitors. They prefer temporary empire to permanent racial surival. That is why they have been attacking Germany ever since the Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648) and tried to prevent its reunification after the USSR fell. We can only hope that Scotland will divorce itself from “Great” Britain and the English will be set adrift on their own. Maybe then the man-ape and other anti-Whites can join them on their new version of Easter Island.
Cloggie on Fri, 14th Apr 2017 4:54 am
The Brits are race traitors. They prefer temporary empire to permanent racial surival. That is why they have been attacking Germany ever since the Thirty Years’ War (1618-1648) and tried to prevent its reunification after the USSR fell. We can only hope that Scotland will divorce itself from “Great” Britain and the English will be set adrift on their own. Maybe then the man-ape and other anti-Whites can join them on their new version of Easter Island.
The British are no anti-German race traitors, since they are Celts, no Germanics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhopt9vzmjc
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Celts
Even joe will admit that the British are not “European”.
This is the key to understanding the destructive behavior of the British in the 20th century, by instigating WW1 to further the interests of the British Empire and let themselves being used by US Jews (via Churchill) to instigate WW2.
The Celts were ejected from Continental Europe into the British Isles. This Celtic ground text was considerably altered by Germanic invasions by the Angelen and Sachsen Germanic tribes (“Anglo-Saxons”) and later the Danes:
https://extechops.net/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/england-danelaw-map.jpg
…but the ground text remains Celtic and that is the mean reason for their (understandable) negative attitude against “the barbaric Germanics”, who defeated them 2000 years ago. Nothing comes from nothing. The British are no “Anglo-Saxons”, but Celts, decorated at the edges by Anglo-Saxon-Danish Germanic blood.
And then there is another very important aspect in understanding the British. It is basically our (Dutch) “fault”.
In 1648 Holland emerged as the premier Protestant nation in the world. And even though the Peace of Westphalia had officially settled the differences between Catholics and Protestants in Europe, in 1672 there was nevertheless a combined Catholic British-French-German attempt to destroy the Netherlands during an 18 months siege. In the end we were saved from Catholic destruction by flooding half the country and the defeat of the British fleet at the hands of Admiral de Ruyter:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j21t1i_SiKI
The Dutch knew though that the Anglo-French coalition could return any minute and something needed to be done, namely turning Britain in a Protestant country as well, just like Holland. But how could a tiny country like Holland conquer and defeat a much larger country like Britain.
Answer: Jews.
The Jews loved Protestantism, because the Protestants promoted “freedom of religion”. Although this freedom of religion was intended by the Protestants to carve out a safe space for Protestants only in a Catholic dominated Europe, the Jews knew that they could use this fatal freedom of religion for their own purposes. After the Jews were kicked out of Spain, Jewish folks with names like “Rosso Campo” flocked to Jew-friendly Netherlands, changed their Marranos names in “Roosevelt”, etc. and engaged themselves in the wonders of Dutch capitalism and substantially helped shaping it as Jews are good at money.
The Dutch military invasion and conquest of Britain and North Ireland of 1688 was entirely financed by rich Jews, who also had an interest in Britain becoming a Jew-friendly nation, after the British had expelled the Jews centuries earlier. There were no strings attached to the project, except one: if you (William III) succeed, you have to allow us Jews to create a Bank of England, run by us.
That moment, 1688, the so-called “Glorious Revolution”, was the beginning of the rise of the Jews in the modern capitalist world, that began in Holland, the most successful adept of the Protestant Revolution of 1517.
The Jews of Britain were an important driving force behind the British Empire and London City of bankers. And they changed the character of the country. And it were American and British Jews who instigated WW2, using Britain as a spring board.
From a continental European perspective, Britain is completely hopeless. Brexit is a Godsend and an expression of the instinctive English popular will not to be part of Continental Europe. Let them go.
Even Holland, the cradle of Anglosphere, as well as the rest of continental Europe, should make a complete U-turn and start looking Eastwards, into Eurasia, in the interest of our racial survival. In contrast to the Anglo-Zionists, the Russians and Chinese won’t require us to commit racial suicide.
Cloggie on Fri, 14th Apr 2017 5:39 am
The French election is getting ever more unpredictable. All of a sudden there is the rise of an extreme leftist candidate Jean-Luc Mélenchon:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/04/14/jean-luc-melenchonpromises-no-red-army-tanks-france-wins-presidency/
Overview candidates:
Pro-Russia
– Marine le Pen (nationalist anti-EU, anti-NATO)
– Francois Fillon (liberal right, pro-EU, pro-NATO)
– Jean-Luc Mélenchon (hard left, Chavez/Mao fan, anti-NATO, anti “fascist” le Pen)
Pro-America
– Emmanuel Macron (globalist Rothschildt candidate, promoted by the media)
Cloggie on Fri, 14th Apr 2017 5:55 am
Campaign speech by commie Jean-Luc Mélenchon, from [24:08] earlier this week in Lille:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifEhkqG3Vzw
He can speak one-and-a-half hour without teleprompter.
Cloggie on Fri, 14th Apr 2017 6:08 am
This new development enhances the chances of breaking the status quo, read break-up of the West:
https://sputniknews.com/politics/201702051050370915-melenchon-russia-partners-france-relations/
The old wisdom was that Marine le Pen would win the first round of the elections. In the second round she would be guaranteed to be defeated by the other, either a left or right wing system candidate, regardless of who would have made it to the second round, socialist or conservative.
If this extreme-leftist candidate makes it to the second round, instead of system candidates Macron or Fillon, it remains to be seen if the French bourgeois right would volunteer to vote a Maoist into office, just to prevent the “fascist” le Pen candidate.
The French media and Macron sabotaged the candidacy of Fillon by opening judiciary proceedings against Fillon.
http://www.gfaye.com/affaire-fillon-le-tueur-sappelle-macron/
That could in hindsight have been a stupid move by the system, initiating the very end of the post-war America-oriented system.
France could very well head for a Trump-style electoral surprise.
Hello on Fri, 14th Apr 2017 6:45 am
The invaded people of France don’t seem to be bothered by being invaded, or the invaders already have so much mass as to sway the polls.
Can europe be saved? Or like an old man, its time is up and it will fade into history, conquered by negro, raghead and other assorted 3rd worlders. It’s a pitty.
Cloggie on Fri, 14th Apr 2017 6:54 am
The invaded people of France don’t seem to be bothered by being invaded
Not true. The meanwhile cleared invader camp called the “jungle” in Calais with 6,000 inhabitants, caused the town of 72,589 inhabitants to vote for Marine le Pen with a staggering 49%.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3353002/Calais-Right-wing-town-France-Marine-Le-Pen-s-National-score-massive-49-cent-votes-home-Jungle.html
The more invaders you get, the stronger the electoral reaction is going to be, until somebody pulls the trigger.
In unrelated news, the British secret service has warned as early as 2015 that there were “suspicious” contacts between Trump campaign members and Russians secret agents:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/donald-trump-britischer-geheimdienst-warnte-schon-2015-vor-russland-kontakten-a-1143365.html
Think of scenes with Frank Underwood sitting in a hamburger joint, exchanging messages, written on greasy napkins, dumped in waste baskets, fished out again by men in raincoats and sun glasses, with thick funny accents.