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Page added on January 18, 2016
Kunstler: Worse Than 1860
The lost story-line amid the food-fights and boasting contests that the “debates” have turned into is the destruction being wreaked on the two major parties themselves. I don’t see how either the Republicans or Democrats get out of this thing alive. The primary season now upon us is the event horizon that sucks these two purposeless clubs into the bottomless hole of historical bad memories. Both parties have failed so fundamentally to represent or even apprehend the interests of the nation that they are now merely obstacles to any sort of plausible future, two infernal machines blocking the road, shaking themselves to death.
The Republican Party may be closer to outright blowup since the rank and file will never accept Donald Trump as their legitimate candidate, and Trump has nothing but contempt for the rank and file. If Trump manages to win enough primaries and collect a big mass of delegate votes, the July convention in Cleveland will be the site of a mass political suicide. The party brass, including governors, congressmen, senators and their donor cronies will find some device to deprive Trump of his prize, and the Trump groundlings will revolt against that move, and the whole nomination process will be turned over to the courts, and the result will be a broken organization. The Federal Election Commission may then have to appeal to Capital Hill to postpone the general election. The obvious further result will be a constitutional crisis. Political legitimacy is shattered. Enter, some Pentagon general on a white horse.
Parallel events could rock the Democratic side. I expect Hillary to exit the race one way or another before April. She comes off the shelf like a defective product that never should have made it through quality control. Nobody really likes her. Nobody trusts her. Nobody besides Debbie Wasserman Schultz and Huma Abedin believe that it’s her turn to run the country. Factions at the FBI who have had a good look at her old State Department emails want to see her indicted for using the office to gin up global grift for the Clinton Foundation. These FBI personnel may be setting up another constitutional crisis by forcing Attorney General Loretta Lynch either to begin proceedings against Clinton or resign. Rumors about her health (complications from a concussion suffered in a fall ) won’t go away. And finally, of course, Senator Bernie Sanders is embarrassing her badly at the polls.
The Democrats could feasibly end up having to nominate Bernie on a TKO, but in doing so would instantly render themselves a rump party peddling the “socialist” brand — about the worst product-placement imaginable, given our history and national mythos. In theory, the country might benefit from a partial dose of socialism such as single-payer Medicare-for-all — just to bust up the odious matrix of rackets that medicine has become — but mega-bureaucracy on the grand scale is past its sell-by date for an emergent post-centralized world that needs its regions to get more local and autonomous.
The last time the major political parties disintegrated, back in the 1850s, the nation had to go through a bloody convulsion to reconstitute itself. The festering issue of slavery so dominated politics that nothing else is remembered about the dynamics of the period. Today, the festering issue is corruption and racketeering, but none of the candidates uses those precise terms to describe what has happened to us, though Sanders inveighs against the banker class to some effect. Trump gets at it only obliquely by raging against the “incompetence” of the current leadership, but he expresses himself so poorly in half-finished sentences and quasi-thoughts that he seems to embody that same mental incapacity as the people he rails against. Corruption and racketeering go unobserved and unchallenged. Even the amazing effrontery of Ted Cruz failing to report his Goldman Sachs campaign contributions to the FEC (with his wife employed as a managing director of that company!) hardly made an impression on public opinion last week.
Political uncertainty has never been so dangerously high in this country since the election year of 1860. Even the Watergate years pale against today’s sick scene because for all of Richard Nixon’s turpitudes and evasions in the White House, the institutions of democracy elsewhere were sound and worked impressively well. The senate committee steadfastly and systematically uncovered the crimes of Nixon and his cohorts over two years of hearings, and the House judiciary committee chugged efficiently through the preparatory work of impeachment — and then, old Tricky Dick boarded his helicopter to San Clemente with a ragged smile and a wave.
Nobody knows where the shit show of 2016 is leading. The uncertainty around it is helping to sink what remains of the old economy, and one can easily discern a very dangerous set of feedbacks creeping into place.
36 Comments on "Kunstler: Worse Than 1860"
Go Speed Racer on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 6:08 pm
We Are Doomed
The amount of man-made heat energy, that is being dumped into the oceans,
is equal to one Hiroshima-style atomic bomb going off, every second,
For 15 years straight.
http://news.yahoo.com/study-man-made-heat-put-oceans-doubled-since-160154125.html
That might be a lot of heat.
To cope with this bad news, I will get into my 16 mile per gallon car, to drive across town and get a burger, fries, and a chocolate shake.
sidzepp on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 8:40 pm
There is no comparison between this year’s fiasco and 1860. Lincoln might have been an outsider to the infant Republican party, but his nomination was accepted and the Republicans rallied around him.
The nomination of Breckinridge by the southern fire-eaters who bolted both the Charleston and the Baltimore conventions might have been done on purpose to guarantee that a Republican would be elected by dividing the Democratic votes between Breckinridge and Douglas. Thus setting the stage for secession.
The confusion in the political parties this year is because people are focusing on single issues; i.e., immigration, racism, jobs, foreign policy, gun legislation and a host of other issues that have polarized the American public. The scary thing is that the climate and energy seem to be very low on the list.
pennsyguy on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 8:47 pm
I think that history can give us some guidelines on what happens when societies collapse. With so many people dependent on fragile technologies, our decent may not follow past declines exactly, but I’m betting that it won’t be as gradual as in the past and it won’t be pleasant.
makati1 on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 8:47 pm
“…mega-bureaucracy on the grand scale is past its sell-by date for an emergent post-centralized world that needs its regions to get more local and autonomous.”
The USA is well past it’s “Sell By” date and is beginning to give off a foul odor the rest of the world can smell.
“The Federal Election Commission may then have to appeal to Capital Hill to postpone the general election. The obvious further result will be a constitutional crisis. Political legitimacy is shattered. Enter, some Pentagon general on a white horse.”
Apparently I am not the only one who sees the possibility of no elections in November or, maybe ever again.
“Clowns to the left of me. Clowns to the right of me…’ LMAO
sidzepp on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 8:59 pm
The election cycle between 1968 and 1980 might prove to be a better example of chaos. George Wallace’s third party run appealed to the Southern white Democrat. By 1980 Reagan had fully integrated that demographic into the GOP and since then it keeps moving farther to the right. Hell, look at Romney in 2012, he was probably as Liberal as Obama, but he didn’t come across that way.
We might be better off having a military dictatorship, rather than let one of the clowns running be elected.
Apneaman on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 9:01 pm
Good essay documenting the ape cancer.
Civilization Is Not Carbon Neutral and Never Will Be
http://survivalacres.com/blog/civilization-is-not-carbon-neutral-and-never-will-be/
makati1 on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 9:22 pm
Inability to do anything right…
“The United States has spent nearly half a billion dollars and five years developing Afghanistan’s oil, gas and minerals industries — and has little to show for it, a government watchdog reported today. In fact, the task force spent $46.5 million to try to convince companies to agree to develop the resources, but not one ended up signing a contract.”
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-01-18/mission-accomplished-us-spent-half-billion-mining-afghanistan-limited-progress
LMAO
makati1 on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 9:29 pm
sidzepp, most 3rd world countries do have military dictators running them. Obviously, 3rd world America is overdue.
Who? Ass Carter? One of the joint chiefs? Who cares? Obviously you and many others would cheer it on.
sidzepp on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 9:44 pm
Actually, Mak, I wouldn’t cheer it on. I am not happy the direction this nation is taking. We are controlled by special interest groups who have no problem in starting conflicts in any part of the world to reap the profits that our military-industrial complex demands. We have become a nation of cry babies and flag wavers and we will probably be the next country to use a nuclear weapon. The politicians and the MSM have whipped the general public into a fearful frenzy and there will probably be rivers of blood in our major cities in the next few years.
GregT on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 10:33 pm
Careful what you say around these parts sidzepp. You might just find yourself to be the next member of the imaginary anti_american hate gang.
BillC on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 11:05 pm
Don’t worry about Afghanistan. The banksters have made hundreds of billions off the opium there. The taxpayers fund the war and soldiers. The greedy banksters can’t loose. The U.S. Banks have done this to many counties. We need to reset the monopoly game. 300 million people can’t live on Baltic Avenue too long. While every other property has a mostly empty red hotel. We have been squeezed to the limit. Yes, there should be blood in the streets soon.
sidzepp on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 11:13 pm
Hope ya’ll excuse the cynicism but living here in the pan-handle of Florida, where Trump, bible, and guns go hand in hand it is hard to find a person that will discuss issues on politics or the environment. Most of the people in this area are neo-cons and incapable of having a intelligent conversation. Their minds are firmly rooted in cement. I came to this site hoping to hear rational arguments and to use the sources that various people contribute to attempt to hopefully persuade some of the people which I engage in conversation with to maybe open their eyes and their minds a little bit.
I don’t hate America, but rather hate the direction we are headed. I see racism rearing its ugly head again, the scores of shooting every year, the economic inequality, and a foreign policy which is nothing more than neo-colonialism to supply us with the resources we need to continue our materialistic lifestyle.
When a deranged boy can walk into a grade school or a church and randomly execute innocent people and the nation is split on the issue, then we have a serious problem.
makati1 on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 11:22 pm
sidzepp, you sound almost like me. My thoughts and feels are very similar.
While I would not cheer on a military coup, I would not be surprised if one happened. I am retired and out of the US. I pay no taxes there or nor do I bother to vote for one of the hydra heads called “President”. I just watch the show from a vantage point half way around the world.
I do have a daughter in Florida and she agrees pretty much with your analysis of the area. I am concerned for her and her family, but not much I can do.
GregT on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 11:42 pm
Welcome sidzepp,
Sounds like your head is planted squarely on your shoulders. The rest of us don’t ‘hate’ America either, contrary to what some people may believe. It’s those who are in control of America that are the problem, and the people who are blindly following their indoctrination. “Their minds are firmly rooted in cement” is a very fitting analogy. Good luck in trying to get through to most of them, IMO it is far too late in the game.
Plenty to discuss here, and all around a rather intelligent bunch. Stick around, and join in on the “fun”. The more the merrier. 🙂
Apneaman on Mon, 18th Jan 2016 11:57 pm
sidzepp, not cynical. Valid concerns and observations.
“… incapable of having a intelligent conversation. Their minds are firmly rooted in cement.”
And they always will be. It’s not about facts or science, it’s about a tribal belief system. It’s an emotional issue and IMO you will only see them become more stubborn, angry and violent. The political left does the same thing and their solutions are inadequate and it’s too late, but at least they are aware that their are serious problems. The right has absolutely nothing to offer for 21st century problems (Guns N God). How could they when they live in denial and everything is a conspiracy? I would move if you can.
Apneaman on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 12:02 am
Humorous Doc on Canadians and our relationship with our beloved 😉 neighbours.
Being Canadian (2015)
http://www.fulldocumentary.co/2016/01/being-canadian-2015.html
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 1:41 am
“Careful what you say around these parts sidzepp. You might just find yourself to be the next member of the imaginary anti_american hate gang.”
I actually agree with sidzepp. What I don’t agree with is people who use the constant posts and links with anti-American sentiment THEN they promote their winners who are dregs and no better. “THEN” if you attempt any moderation to this extreme message the “goon squad of 4” comes out with the “denial of service” personal attacks, labels, and obscene language. Pathetic really, so I attack them when they attack me until they finally get tired of getting trashed.
Apneaman on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 2:09 am
All American Retards
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5pD7RwZDbU
GregT on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 2:28 am
You’ve been a ‘flag waver’ ever since I started posting here Davy. I have repeatly shown moderation, and have been continuously accused of being an anti-American by you. The fact that you still cannot figure this out, speaks volumes about your indoctrination.
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 2:59 am
Looks like my point is hitting home with “The” Greg. He is trying to defend himself but of course he has to do his usual labels of “flag waver” and “indoctrination” because his little pride is hurt. Greg, grow up. If you are going to sling shit your hands are going to stink. I know some of you up there think your shit don’t stink but all shit stinks even Canadian shit.
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 3:01 am
I thought this interesting.
http://ipsnorthamerica.net/news.php?idnews=17
“During the recently ended World Junior Hockey Championships in Vancouver, Canadian hockey fans booed the U.S. team while they played the Russians.”
This article goes on to show how upset Canadians get when some “rightwing wing ding” American starts belittling them for their anti-Americanism. Canadians seem to think it is ok if they do it but “WTF” if it gets done to them.
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread187531/pg1
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 3:08 am
IMA, do you know how many times the board anti-American big Kahuna has posted this very same link? Do you think someone has an attitude problem? Maybe the boy has an obsession issue? It’s fun once or maybe twice but multiple times. We know how stupid an undercurrent of American’s are about geography and geopolitical reality but the excessive posting of this is ridiculous.
Apneaman on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 2:09 am “All American Retards” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5pD7RwZDbU
GregT on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 6:57 am
“I thought this interesting.”
Is that the best you can come up with Davy? An article from 2006 about a group of drunken idiots at a Junior’s hockey game, probably the same idiots that rioted 5 years later when Vancouver lost the Stanley Cup to Boston, causing millions of dollars in damage to Vancouver’s downtown core?
Well you can relax now, because the public outcry was huge. So huge as a matter of fact, that almost 5 million dollars was spent prosecuting these 300+ morons to the full extent of the law.
News from yesterday:
http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/prosecuting-vancouvers-stanley-cup-riots-cost-the-system-nearly-5-million-new-report-says
And Tucker Carlson? Give your head a shake Davy.
JuanP on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 7:28 am
I see that Davy, the board’s delusional American exceptionalist one percenter narcissist bully is at it again fighting the “anti Americans” and bringing “balance and truth” to the forum. If it weren’t for the balance he brings I guess we would all be dazed and confused by the complexities involved because we lack his vision, wisdom, and special understanding of how great and generous the USA and the Roman Catholic Church are.
You are a waste of Oxygen, Davy!
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 8:19 am
Juan, give it a rest people are tired of your naked personal attacks. Say something of meaning or shut your suck. Think about the other people and what they care about. They are tired of the infighting. I am trying to figure out why you think your attacks mean anything because they are empty and redundant. Try using your little brain by delivering some ideas that people want to here. If they want personal attacks they will buy a tabloid mag. You are a pathetic example of a pussy who got his widle feelings hurt. Do you wear panties?
joe on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 8:21 am
What some Americans are realising is what Noam Chomsky has always said about the elites, was that they are not different, and, they represent the worst extremist point of view. The elites taking more direct rule in society follows the exact pattern to tyranny, which had been worse in the past. Slave owning elites once founded America, and it was mechanisation and cheap immigrant labor that destroyed that economic model. Now fiat currency owning elites need to take direct control to ensure that their paper billions don’t disappear now in the post crisis world. Democrats and Republicans support the same views because Americas interests have narrowed as the world adopts it’s economic model. Even ISIS must sell oil for greenbacks guys. Don’t forget that.
makati1 on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 8:53 am
joe, some countries are selling oil for other currencies or gold. Did you know that? Iran for one. Russia for another. And probably the Chinese for a third.
BTW: How do you know how ISIS is paid? Are you one of them? Perhaps they are paid in food, fuel and weapons? Maybe in Turkish Lira? I have not seen any reference to their payments in any currency, just a reference to it’s value in USDs. Few Americans would understand a value stated in Turkish Lira or even Euros so it has to be stated as dollars for the Amerocentric sheeple.
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 9:13 am
“Few Americans would understand a value stated in Turkish Lira or even Euros so it has to be stated as dollars for the Amerocentric sheeple.”
Mak, joe is likely not American. I noticed in one comment a few weeks back he used the date format day/month/year which is not American. I could be wrong but this just goes to show your agenda seek. Anytime someone has a counter opinion you immediately label them as American. BTW, joe is highly critical of the US you should be befriending him.
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 12:18 pm
“Canada excluded from meeting of US-led anti-ISIS coalition”
https://www.rt.com/news/line/
“Canada has been excluded from a meeting of defense ministers in Paris this week to discuss the fight against militants of Islamic State (IS, formerly ISIS/ISIL). Canadian Defense Minister Harjit Sajjan tried to suggest it wasn’t a big deal on Tuesday, AP reported. Ministers from the Netherlands, France, Australia, Germany, Italy and the UK will take part in the talks. US Defense Secretary Ash Carter didn’t mention Canada last week when he said he would meet defense ministers from nations playing a significant role in the coalition. Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau earlier vowed to remove Canada’s six fighter jets from the mission.”
apneaman on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 12:40 pm
Davy, thanks for pointing out the typical temper tantrum and punitive response of your government when other nations (supposed allies) assert their sovereignty by deciding what level of participation 0-10 they feel is best in their own nations interest. Uncle Sam says our way or the highway. Wah wa wa.
Apparently Canadian planners know not to follow those with a laughable and tragic (for commoners) track record of failure.
America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
In fifty years of nearly nonstop American warfare, we’ve learned little and achieved less.
“So here are five straightforward lessons—none acceptable in what passes for discussion and debate in this country—that could be drawn from that last half century of every kind of American warfare:
1. No matter how you define American-style war or its goals, it doesn’t work. Ever.
2. No matter how you pose the problems of our world, it doesn’t solve them. Never.
3. No matter how often you cite the use of military force to “stabilize” or “protect” or “liberate” countries or regions, it is a destabilizing force.
4. No matter how regularly you praise the American way of war and its “warriors,” the US military is incapable of winning its wars.
5. No matter how often American presidents claim that the US military is “the finest fighting force in history,” the evidence is in: it isn’t.
And here’s a bonus lesson: if as a polity we were to take these five no-brainers to heart and stop fighting endless wars, which drain us of national treasure, we would also have a long-term solution to the Veterans Administration health-care crisis. It’s not the sort of thing said in our world, but the VA is in a crisis of financing and caregiving that, in the present context, cannot be solved, no matter whom you hire or fire. The only long-term solution would be to stop fighting losing wars that the American people will pay for decades into the future, as the cost in broken bodies and broken lives is translated into medical care and dumped on the VA.”
http://www.thenation.com/article/america-war-record-unparalleled-failure/
Of course 1%ers like you and your sub human family don’t give a shit about the broken bodies and broken lives. They equate to more profits for mommy and daddy’s MIC investments. And of course your kind never sees combat so who gives a fuck eh?
apneaman on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 12:42 pm
Is it sinking in yet Davy?
America at War: A Record of Unparalleled Failure
In fifty years of nearly nonstop American warfare, we’ve learned little and achieved less.
“So here are five straightforward lessons—none acceptable in what passes for discussion and debate in this country—that could be drawn from that last half century of every kind of American warfare:
1. No matter how you define American-style war or its goals, it doesn’t work. Ever.
2. No matter how you pose the problems of our world, it doesn’t solve them. Never.
3. No matter how often you cite the use of military force to “stabilize” or “protect” or “liberate” countries or regions, it is a destabilizing force.
4. No matter how regularly you praise the American way of war and its “warriors,” the US military is incapable of winning its wars.
5. No matter how often American presidents claim that the US military is “the finest fighting force in history,” the evidence is in: it isn’t.
And here’s a bonus lesson: if as a polity we were to take these five no-brainers to heart and stop fighting endless wars, which drain us of national treasure, we would also have a long-term solution to the Veterans Administration health-care crisis. It’s not the sort of thing said in our world, but the VA is in a crisis of financing and caregiving that, in the present context, cannot be solved, no matter whom you hire or fire. The only long-term solution would be to stop fighting losing wars that the American people will pay for decades into the future, as the cost in broken bodies and broken lives is translated into medical care and dumped on the VA.”
GregT on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 12:47 pm
West Tramples Syrian Sovereignty While Promising to Uphold It
“Among the Security Council’s five permanent members, three – the US, France and Britain, have blatantly violated ‘the sovereignty, independence, unity and territorial integrity of the Syrian Arab Republic’ [a line from the draft text], despite voicing their ‘strong support’ for the resolution. They are the ones responsible for the ‘increase in terrorists drawn to the fighting in Syria’, despite simultaneously expressing their ‘gravest concern’ over the issue.”
http://sputniknews.com/middleeast/20151224/1032268831/un-peace-plan-syria-sovereignty.html
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 1:29 pm
I judge by the size of the Ape Turd’s comments he is very disturbed. News is news ape. Be a man instead of a pussy. Your country is a mess like mine that is your lesson for the day. Next time you get dressed in the morning put underware on and not panties.
Davy on Tue, 19th Jan 2016 2:38 pm
BTW, I admire Canada for attempting to break the cycle of violence in the ME. If they do indeed withdrawal all forces from the region it is possible they may be a neutral instrament of diplomacy.
theedrich on Wed, 20th Jan 2016 1:32 am
Enter, some Pentagon general on a white horse.
This is the umpteenth time that Kunstler has suggested that some military element should take over the government. As with most Jews, he is apoplectic with rage at unbribable Trump, and nauseous with contempt for working-class Whites. The idea that America might actually decide to rid itself of its demographic disease and bottomless bribe-ocratic corruption is simply too much for him to stomach. His tirades amount to Kübler-Ross’ “anger” stage (of her “stages of grief” model) gone wild. Ditto for most of those who comment here. The idea that the world is changing not just economically and ecologically, but apparently politically, overwhelms their microcephalic reasoning powers. Tantrums are their only response.
If it is possible that the collective unconscious of a species can suddenly change the entirety of that species to alter its motions and behavior (as in the movements of schools of fish or the “murmuration” of birds, etc.) in a phase transition to another position or state, then there is no reason why we should not expect that same phenomenon to occur in the human species. It is something that operates far below rational consciousness, which is why the contemptuous but dilettantish commenters above despise those who are unknowingly but profoundly moved by it.
Sorry, Mr. Jakob Künstler: maybe we are now encountering a force of nature that neither you nor the globe’s moneyed elites had reckoned on. Many have foretold the simple fact that the Judeo-Christian megalomania of “doing good” while subjugating the world and making money (and ignoring “externalities”) can not continue forever on a finite planet. It’s just that they did not realize it might not end in the unicornish way they were hoping.
Davy on Wed, 20th Jan 2016 5:25 am
“This is the umpteenth time that Kunstler has suggested that some military element should take over the government.” Kunstler is likely right with this one. The degree of a takeover is debatable. Will this be overt or within the secret situation rooms of the dark state governments the world over? That is the question. My thoughts are at the highest levels in most major powers preparations are already being made or are in action. We just don’t know it.
There is no other choice than for the military with its paramilitary police forces to become more involved with a world of complexity failing. We will have no choice but to see the military involved in a whole range of activities with security and other support activities. There is no reason this has to be completely negative like so many want to preach.
Security is going to be at a premium and it is those locals who have security that may survive. Sure a few may or could survive with some luck of fate but most will survive where there is security. This security may be direct with martial law or with the military in the background as a force in control or supporting control. I also will acknowledge a dark and evil military arrangement could develop. This is another one of those unknown knowns. The human mind has a wide range of fantasy but reality is clear.