Kunstler: Global Nausea

44 Comments on "Kunstler: Global Nausea"

Northwest Resident on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 1:50 pm 



“The shale oil story is false. By my reckoning we have about a year left of the drive-to-Walmart-economy before the public broadly gets what trouble we’re in.”

Or, to sum it all up in a single catchy phrase:

It’s time to confront brutal facts

“On any fair analysis, the US market in particular is a fly in search of a windscreen.”

sovereignman dot com/finance/its-time-to-confront-brutal-facts-14837/

ghung on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 1:53 pm 



The latest Kunstlercast features John Michael Greer (kunstler .com). I always enjoy it when these two get together.

HARM on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 2:15 pm 



One of Kunstler’s best posts in a long time. Right on the money.

Of course no one in power –especially the psychopathic neocons who lied us into Iraq — will pay attention, much less course correct. As long as there’s a war and atrocities going on, there’s money to be made (for a select few).

Arthur on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 4:19 pm 



“The amazing thing is that the public might get to that realization even before its political leadership does. That dynamic leads straight to the previously unthinkable (not for 150 years, anyway) breakup of the United States”

He does not say why the US would break up, but sometime ago he touched the same subject and hinted towards a future independent Tennessee, for the “Dolly Partons and Hitlers”, which should give an idea.

HARM on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 6:10 pm 



@Arthur,

Yup, Kunstler frequently characterize them as “corn-pone Nazis”, or the “American Taliban”.

HARM on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 6:11 pm 



This might be instructive on how a new U.S. civil war could turn out: http://sandiegofreepress.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/map-jesusland.jpg

Davy on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 7:01 pm 



Harm/Arthur, You are talking country boys around here. There are some corn-pone Nazis around AK boarder but for the most part there are good old country boys around here.

Country boys will survive:
http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/hankwilliamsjr/acountryboycansurvive.html

I disagree with some of K’s criticism of the American Rural population. These guys are already simple and tough fully ready for a collapsed BAU. They work cattle and horses around here. They work the woods cutting timber. Then Kunstler and others want to cut them down. These boys are not arm chair pussies. They make the best soldiers. I agree there is white trash around here, they stick out in Walmart and it gives us all a bad name. Yet, there is a significant majority that are hardworking, good family people, and God “fearin”. Nothing wrong with a little religion if it promotes stability at least in my book.

GregT on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 7:10 pm 



If our ‘leaders’ (a term I use very loosely) don’t get their acts together, the map may look more like this:

http://nicelittlestatic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/New_North_America-3.jpg

HARM on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 8:03 pm 



@Davy,

I agree that much of America’s rural population already lives something close to a “post collapse” lifestyle and can teach us city dwellers a few lessons about true survival.

That said, many of these people are the same folks who routinely attend Tea Party rallies, rail against scientists, “uppity wimmun”, “the Gays”, “the blacks/browns”, and regularly vote against their own interests: pro-war, anti-public healthcare, anti-social safety net, anti-union, etc. They rail against “socialism”, while living in Red States that take in far more in federal tax dollars than they pay into the system. That’s where they lose much of my respect and sympathy.

Overall, the country would benefit from a lot more people like “Survivorman” and lot fewer like “Honey Boo-Boo”.

Davy on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 8:10 pm 



Yea, harm, that part of it is hard for my to take. I live a double life in some ways. The best way I found to deal with the backward attitudes is poke fun at them and their opponents. My 1%er family and their conservative republican attitudes is likewise a challenge.

Makati1 on Mon, 11th Aug 2014 8:20 pm 



Not one of us knows for sure what tomorrow may bring. And, we certainly cannot see years ahead in this fog of chaos. The best we can do is decide how we want to prepare for the eventualities we are fairly sure are coming. Odds are, we will be way off one way or another, but only fools would not try to ride it out with the least pain. JHK is always a good read for perspective.

ghung on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 8:02 am 



Assuming most rural country folk are ‘corn-pone hitlers is like assuming most black folks in Chicago are gangstas.

Makati1 on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 8:27 am 



And the latest sign of the times:

“Total Breakdown In Less Than 24 Hours: Images and Videos of Missouri Riots and Looting”

This is a sign of things to come. No community is going to avoid this, no matter where you live. The US is a country with a high percentage of insane, drugged up, desperate people already. What will it be like when all of the social safety nets collapse? Mad Max from coast to coast, I suspect. I remember the race riots of the 60s, when the cities burned. That was over race and inequality. Today is much worse. It will be your neighbors that are hungry and desperate.

http://www.shtfplan.com/headline-news/total-breakdown-in-less-than-24-hours-images-and-videos-of-missouri-riots-and-looting_08112014

JuanP on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 8:28 am 



Ghung, I was interested the other day on your comment about your surrounding area and people there.
While I no longer interact with people in person, if I can avoid it, these days, good relations with your neighbors are important in a collapse scenario. I, personally, have become what my Japanese friends call a hikikomori, an Internet hermit. In Japan it means different things to different people. The older people disapprove, while the younger accept it as an alternative lifestyle.
I appreciate that kind of info about your area. My wife and I like your area very much and we have always considered it a great place for a last home. We spent out honeymoon camping and hiking in the exact area were you live. We loved the place, and have gone back a few times, but it’s been a very long time.

JuanP on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 8:43 am 



Davy, I have always wanted to visit the Ozarks, but never did. Your place there sounds amazing and from a strategic point of view the whole area is ideal to face the end of BAU. Very smart location choice, IMO. And my wife and I would love to have a spring like the one you described earlier in anothe thread.
I know the Appalachians and the Rockies well, but never got to the Ozarks, and not for lack of wanting. I know that geographically it would be perfect for me, but I am afraid I wouldn’t fit in with the local people. They are probably better people than I am, but just too different in their interests and backgrounds. I am not religious and I don’t believe in God, and in some things I am very liberal and progressive. Of course in a farm you don’t have to see your neighbors much, and I can always let them do the talking while I learn from them about the area and farming. My understanding is that there are not many people like you or me there. I am more far out than you!

Davy on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 12:33 pm 



Juan, there are the locals then there are the people that move into this area and do their thing Lots of back to nature spiritual types, gentleman farmers, and a wide variety of peoples. Land is cheap and the whole Ozark area still has a rural flavor. Yet, St Louis, a large city, and Springfield, a medium city, are a few hours away. Big Cities have allot to offer if you need supplies and services. Juan, you would not be out of place at all here. The comment 3 up on the board about the people here is not in perspective. Just like G commented above about stereotyping blacks. The riot problem is in a very small area of St. Louis. We have not had any trouble in many years. The high crime rate in St Louis is confined to a section of town where the gangbangers are. My girlfriend who commutes to see me every weekend on the farm lives in a nice part of the St. Louis city which I call the granola crowd. These are young green, alternative, and progressive people. They are practicing urban renewal. The park by my girlfriends place has farmers markets, concerts, sports, and social activities. There are local stores, restaurants, coffee houses, and shops around her. So I hear comments about my state, my area, and my states cities and I ask myself “Self, why are some people idiots and talk bad about others?”. Anyway long story short you would fit in here Juan and you would have your privacy if you like and a community if you want here in the Ozarks.

HARM on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 12:53 pm 



@ghung,

“Assuming most rural country folk are ‘corn-pone hitlers is like assuming most black folks in Chicago are gangstas.”

You really, really need to spend some time in the rural American South. I have family in AL, GA, KY and NC and lived in GA 2 years. It was quite an eye-opening experience, I can assure you.

Davy on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 1:09 pm 



Harm, G lives in rural Tenn. I live in rural MO Ozarks. There are the people you mentioned but there are allot of different people around here. Many people have moved in here to be small farmers and get away from the urban areas and they are not locals. These transplants want quiet and privacy. Then there are the people you mentioned but, they are not all bad. Harm, what is wrong with diversity? I will say this the urban concoction is much more vulnerable to a BAU disruption then these rural folks.

JuanP on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 1:22 pm 



Davy, the Ozarks are on my bucket list, and short list of places to settle, too. I can get along with all kinds of people, poor or rich, ignorant or educated, sane or crazy, as long as they are respectful, I don’t like disrespect or violence.
My wife and I went to Northern MO and St. Louis a couple of times a long time ago. I remember rollerblading in the downtown area around the Arch and in the financial office district nearby, and camping in MO. My wife’s best friend lives in Tennessee and has been begging us to go for years, but we haven’t been travelling much, other than for work. Maybe it’s time, before it’s too late.

Davy on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 2:07 pm 



Juan, as a prepper this would be a good place to visit if you have some prepper farms located, maybe some Amish farms, there are great rivers to pack camp. You are always welcome at my place. There is nothing very special as far as traditional tourism but like i said as a prepper this is an interesting area. I am sure pops would chime in. One other nice point we are in the center of many regions so you can experience many different geography in a short drive. I like the 4 seasons also.

JuanP on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 2:09 pm 



Davy, thanks! I miss the four seasons.

JuanP on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 2:44 pm 



I had missed the corn pone nazis comments and want to be clear Imwas not referring to them above.
As far as country vs city people goes. Most of the big city people that surround me are completely useless and will not manage to adapt in a collapse scenario. IMO, it takes years to learn how to grow food, take care of animals, fish, hunt, or live outdoors, and most city people will die trying to adapt at some point in the future. My wife and I went camping and fishing with a high temperature of 96, and a heat index of 118 this last weekend. We had fun. Normal city people would drop down and die fast in those circumstances. It takes years of experience and adaptation to function under those conditions.
If you need the first crop you ever planted for your survival, you’d better believe in miracles and start praying for one.
The country boys shall inherit the Earth.

HARM on Tue, 12th Aug 2014 11:51 pm 



@davy,

You start throwin’ around sissy libuhral words like “diversity” in these parts, and you had better be able to run fast, boy. 🙂

@JuanP, etc.,

Like I said, rural survival skills are often impressive, though let’s not mythologize all crackers as white trash versions of “noble savages” (recall the Honey Boo-boo clan?). There are plenty of lazy couch-bound X-Box addicted good ‘ol boys who couldn’t hunt or fish to save their own lives, unless you call bargain huntin’ at the local Piggly Wiggly a “survival skill”.

And for the record, there are plenty of hippie-dippy folks on the Left Coast who can farm, recycle, build and repair shit. Environmentalism and conservation is very big here.

Arthur on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 1:53 am 



I witnessed from a relatively short distance what happened to Yugoslavia in the nineties. Communism had evaporated in Europe in 1989, also in Y. The Yugoslav state was a creation of the Serbs and WW1 was initiated by Serbs who wanted to destroy the Austrian empire and take the Croat, Bosnian, Macedonian, Slovenian loot and start a country under their own leadership. After 1989 states based on ideology disappeared and there was a return to normality, that is countries basedon ethnicity/language/faith. In 1984 you the wintergames in Sarajevo and everybody was proud to be a Yugoslav. A handfull of years later everybody was busy smashing the skulls of their neighbours. It were the Bosnian muslims (suprise, suprise) who started to challenge the dominance of Belgrade/Serbs. The wars in Yugoslavia resulted in a staggering 140,000 deaths and 4 million people driven from their homes on a total population of merely 23 million. And these people were all ethnic Slavs, but were at yhe same time catholic Croats, orthodox Serbs or muslim Bosnians. And indeed ghung, most people were not gangsters, but the breakdown happened anyway, because tiny elites drew their conclusions from the breakdown of the communist order and started to grab a piece of territory for themselves, based on ethnicity/faith. And mind you, this happened in a time of economic prosperity in Europe.

With this in the back of your mind, let’s have a look at the situation in the US. First the ‘ethnic distance’ between the competing groups in Yugoslavia was much smaller than between Euros, Latinos and blacks in the US. So if the economic shtf the centrifugal forces will be accordingly bigger. The difference between Yugoslavia and the US is that in the latter there are ca. 7 million Jews who are running the place and have no intention of letting the country fall apart. And considering their ruthless behavior in the USSR, it can be expected that draconian measures are going to be implemented, in as much as they are not already in place, to achieve the desired result. Think mass surveillance, FEMA camps, forced racial integration, increased wealth transfer from white to colored, a la Obama care. Yes, there are going to be clashes that will dwarf what we have seen in St. Louis, but an easy, bloodless, silent falling apart, like happened in the USSR, that is unlikely going to happen in the US. And I am sceptical that Euro-America will be able to escape on it’s own. For that external help (from Europe) will be required to achieve an end result, something like this:

http://truthinmedia.org/images/Us-2050.jpg

And forget about 2050, the breakdown will happen much faster, more like 202x and will be triggered by an international financial reset.

antiwarforever on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 3:57 am 



The editorials of the New York Times resemble more and more those of the Soviet times Prawda.

Richard Ralph Roehl on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 5:13 am 



I’ve always enjoyed Kunstler the curmudgeon.

I suspect the United States of Perpetual War Profiteering will not exist by 2050-2060.

We the people should prepare for ‘Deliverance’ from Mad Max (and Company) wolf howling on meaty moons… after feeding upon a pound of ruling class flesh.

Can’t happen here? Don’t be so sure. One day… back in April of 1992… I left my studio loft in gangbangville Los Angeles to go to the beach. When I returned later that evening, the we’re 950 buildings burning.

Makati1 on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 6:12 am 



The riot fuse is short in America…

Davy on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 6:38 am 



Harm, you are so right and right about the white trash. No auguring with the thesis of a rotten 30% in America.

Art, you are a European so you are theorizing I am presuming you have never lived here. It sounds good in theory but on the ground is a different reality. In localized situation some of what you say is true. Just like what is being shown in St Louis. This is a small crisis of a few block blown out of proportion by the same MSM you all rail against here. I find people here use the MSM as a tool when it serves their purpose then rail against it when it doesn’t. This is especially true of that anti-American in the “P’s”. The area in STL is a nice middle class area with some gang bangers moving in causing problems. The US is a continent sized country so any generalization is intellectual simplicity. You really have to treat the US as regions then do your dissections. We in the Midwest and north Ozarks of Missouri are very homogeneous, middle class, and living descent. There are pockets of poor blacks in the inner city, Latinos, and some other immigrants. Some of our hardest workers are immigrants. I am not impressed with the poor blacks but the middle class blacks are good citizens. Art if I used your logic I would compare the Dutch to the Greeks. Not very valid right Art. I am not saying what you say in not indicative to some areas but please the generalizations don’t work in the US.

JuanP on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 8:20 am 



Harm, You got me. I didn’t mean to generalize, I take humans one at a time as a rule. I agree there are many useless people in small town country, too. I’ve read many articles on the damage being done in rural areas by Meth and other bad drugs. I guess the point I was trying to make is that the percentage of people with skills is larger in the country than in the city.

JuanP on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 8:21 am 



Davy, What’s happening in MO?

Davy on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 9:01 am 



Juan, this is STL crisis is another MSM circus. Granted we have a race problem, crime problem, and gang problem. But, St. Louis is not a large city and it is prosperous. We are talking about a handful of city blocks which are the slums. IMA many are being reclaimed by urban renewal.

JuanP on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 9:24 am 



Davy, I didn’t know. I’ll check it out. Thx

JuanP on Wed, 13th Aug 2014 9:36 am 



Wow, I had no idea what was going on until now. I just read a couple of articles on NBCNews.com. A guy was shot by a cop, there’s been three days of riots, and another person has just been shot by the cops. Al Sharpton there. I hope this ends soon. We are constantly bombarded by this kind of events going on all over the world by MSM. I am surprisedat how disconnected I am from what’s going on in MSM these days, I just don’t use it anymore.

Arthur on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 3:55 am 



http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=iRGCKrKsD7w

RT reporting that Ferguson protests have spread to 80 towns. All the media, including RT, are downplaying that this is a 100% racial uprising. This is how Yugoslavia started, with muslim protests spreading.

Davy on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 6:44 am 



Art, the protest are winding down in Ferguson. The state police were called in with an emphasis on separating the local police which may have blood on their hands from the angry population. The state police are professionals and well disciplined. I noticed the crowds smaller and the whole MSM driven crisis winding down. If there are protest around the country they will not gain momentum and are nothing more than moral support. TPTB are fully in control and the protestors unorganized and inept. Look at the Occupy Wall Street folks and where they are now. We are going to continue to see the spontaneous uprisings like Ferguson because America is full of arms, idiots, and dispossessed. The police are militarizing because the threats are significant and growing worse. This is a global phenomenon in multiple places throughout the world. This is typical of what one would expect with a world at limits of growth. The militarization of the police may be a US phenomenon but many places just use the army because the police are corrupt and inept elsewhere. As for Yugoslavia I would say Europe as a whole risks a nationalism that will confront Europe like the Yugoslavian crisis did that country. Europe may erupt in country against country when things get bad which they will. Europe still has significant populations part of unnatural national constructs. Just look at Spain and the Catalans and Basque. So, Art, you face a similar phenomenon as the US. We may have the pockets of racial tension but you Europeans will have the nationalism of whole nations at odds with each other including an angry bear on your eastern front. Not a pleasant scenario.

JuanP on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 7:17 am 



Davy, I agree that nothing will come of this. In a few days these guys will be back home watching TV and eating Cheerios, or going to work and school. TPTB and the police are in control here, and most people don’t want to protest, they just want to live in peace. Not that we will have much peace.
The militarization of police is a global phenomenon, not an American one, but it is more noticeable when there are problems like this.
Is Obama still on the beach?

Arthur on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 9:50 am 



Davy, Juan…. I do not think this is The Big One’ either. But Britain-2011, post-Kathrina New Orleans, flash mobs, OWS, Tea Party, this Knockout game phenomenon, are all warning signs that the former minorities are testing the resolve of the Euro’s, who supposedly are in power (they are not). Meanwhile the system is on the side of the ‘minorities’ and they receive the signal that they can get away with looting for days on end. And with rapidly shifting demographics, the balance of power shifts to the advantage of the minorities and at some point an ‘anti-racist revolution’ will be unstoppable and fully supported by Washington that has been preparing for such an event for decades, since 1965, when de borders were opened for mass third world immigration. You just have to study our own noobster, who openly calls for ‘extermination of the Euro’s’. And there are many like him among the minorities. And all they get is meek reactions. You have to be very blind to fail to recognice the racialist character of this uprising. Ignore it to your own peril.

JuanP on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 10:30 am 



Art, Katrina was a real eye opener for me and I drastically changed my own personal hurricane evacuation plans, preparations, and gear. My plan used to be to evacuate inland to higher ground in Miami at a friend’s rock and monolithic reinforced concrete hurricane proof house. Now my plans take me to a friend’s farm in Central Florida, in a rural area 500 km away on a short vacation to one of our favorite places. And many other changes that I implemented as a consequence of Katrina. In NO there were only half a million people. In the Southeast Florida metropolitan area we have more than ten million. A category 5 would take years to recover from and could happen next week. I am always aware of this during the hurricane season, and very well prepared.
I see the USA racial problems differently, but there are real racial problems in the USA today. I wouldn’t want to be a lower class young black male in the USA today. I think racism is universal, global, and a natural part of human nature, not that I approve of racial discrimination in any way.
Isn’t a racial antiracist revolution, like you mentioned, racist by definition, Art?

Davy on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 11:13 am 



Art, we are close to the social fabric breaking in multiple locations globally. I fear when the repressed 2008 crisis that has never gone away finally resurfaces it will be “all she wrote” for civil harmony pretty well across the board except for pockets of natural stability i.e. Nordic countries as one example. When the 2008 crisis resurfaces and the economies tanks we will see exponential pain, suffering, and food insecurity. This break is close because the limits of growth are here now as we speak. Population overshoot is here with marginal global food security. Add to this a brewing trade war and a polarizing multipolar word engaging in militarism. Further add to this above and below ground PO and stagnating net energy. We have been on a bumpy plateau of stability since the earth shattering 2008 crisis. It was earth shattering because it represents a departure from the old normal to a new normal of manipulation, distortions, and corruption. These new normal traits are needed to hide the fact that growth is over and any quantifiable growth is nothing more than wealth transfer and debt creation. This is nothing more than robbing the poor and borrowing on the future at the expense of the younger generation. So the multicolor global rich folks (generally old) are screwing all poor & young folks (white/black/red/yellow/brown). How long can this slap screw last before social instability destroys confidence in our institutions and economy? The end is near. The question that is up in the air is where will this bifurcation of a system in disequilibrium reboot and where and when will we find a landing. I fear with the population so far in overshoot this descent could be a long drawn out affair. It could take a generation to reduce population to a carrying capacity that can live in a less energy intensive less complex world. The only reason we have so many people now is the energy intensity and complexity.

Davy on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 11:28 am 



Art, is this the beginning of the end game in Ukr?

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-08-15/it-begins-ukraine-troops-destroy-part-armed-russian-convoy

JuanP on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 11:45 am 



Davy, I wouldn’t believe these reports of an armed Russian convoy in Ukraine, I think it could be propaganda. The pictures shown have been taken in Russian territory, and the only info on this is supposed to be coming from one reporter’s verbal report and Kiev with no independent confirmation, video or photo evidence available so far. I don’t have an opinion on this incident so far.

Arthur on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 12:01 pm 



Yesterday, Putin has announced in Yalta that in Donbass thousands have been killed, hundreds thousands have fled and that this must stop. That sounded like announcing an intervention. There is certainly no massive invasion going on yet, I think that these 23 Russian APCs where intended to protect the convoy of these famous/mysterious 280 white trucks. Endgame? This could easily escalate. Washington and London in particular want escalation, Germany does not, France is unclear. More important: the European population does not want NATO intervention, even if Russia would invade. But most important, NATO does not have the material to seriously contemplate a confrontation with Russia on Ukrainian territory. But a return of a Cold War sort of situation is almost certain. But it would also mean that the fuel situation in Europe would become very precarious, certainly with these ISIS clowns operating in the ME. It would mean depression and that would lead to serious contemplation why we Europeans have arrived in this situation. And nobody will judge that the Ukraine was worth a depression.

Here is my fellow Dutchman, Karel van Wolferen, pleading that Europeans must develop a much more independent attitude towards Washington:

http://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/08/15/karel-van-wolferen-on-the-atlanticist-faith/

Paul Craig Roberts endorsed the article.

Davy on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 12:16 pm 



Art, Europe is enabling the DC mafia’s intoxication with power projection. Europe must stand up for rational economic survival. I hope this will set back the American interventionist foreign policy. We have enough problems here at home. This interventionist policy will not go away and some aspects of American power projection are needed. Yet, this situation with Russia is putting the globe at risk of a global depression or worse. It must be the Europeans that take a stand. If the Europeans do not then they will suffer the consequences beginning with a winter of discontent that will rip apart the union.

Arthur on Fri, 15th Aug 2014 1:34 pm 



Davy, complete agreement.