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Page added on May 16, 2015
‘India, China can together create a world that serves humanity’
Launching the Centre for Gandhian and Indian Studies at Fudan University, Mr. Modi said India and China should work together to eliminate poverty.
Pitching for cooperation between India and China, Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Saturday said the two should together touch new heights of progress to eliminate poverty, which will benefit the entire world as one-third of global population lives in the two countries.
Launching the Centre for Gandhian and Indian Studies at Fudan University in Shanghai, he said India and China have historical and civilisational ties and they can together create a world that serves the humanity.
“It is said that 21st century belongs to Asia. One-third of the world population belongs to these two countries. So if India and China work together to eliminate poverty, one-third of the global population will be rid of this problem, which will be beneficial for the entire world,” Mr. Modi said addressing the students and faculty of the university in Hindi.
“Therefore, India and China should together touch new heights of progress involving sensitivity towards humanity and philosophy of Lord Buddha and experiments of Mahatma Gandhi so that we can give to the world a system, which is dedicated to welfare of humanity,” he said.
Invoking Mahatma Gandhi, Mr. Modi said, “The world today is going through two major crises — global warming and terrorism. Solutions to both lie in Gandhi’s teachings. Gandhi is still relevant.”
“Mahatma Gandhi may have been born in a corner of India but he was a global citizen,” Modi said, adding that the apostle of peace could have shown the way out of the crises that the world is going through today.
40 Comments on "‘India, China can together create a world that serves humanity’"
Davy on Sat, 16th May 2015 8:08 am
China and India are destroying the world in population overshoot and increasing consumption. The US and Europe continue to kill the earth with overconsumption. What could be more absurd with the above statement “can together create a world that serves humanity”
joe on Sat, 16th May 2015 8:10 am
Mere sentiment. Ghandi made his own clothes and grew his own crops, a life devoid of discrimination, even of untouchables, he would consider his efforts a failure if modern India claimed to be his true legacy. India today with its nuclear bombs and billionaires is like the nation it threw out, not the nation Ghandi fought for.
Rodster on Sat, 16th May 2015 8:11 am
“India, China can together create a world that serves humanity”
I can’t stop laughing at the thought. China and India to save the world? The same China who has NO regard for it’s environment with sulfur lakes created from electronic manufacturing sewage, lime green/crimson lakes. Air pollution that dwarfs anything NYC produced in the 60’s and 70’s.
China, who has copied every failed (economic/banking/financial) systems the West/USSA has produced? Give me a break. Humanity is totally fucked if China and India are our saviors.
paulo1 on Sat, 16th May 2015 8:15 am
ha ha ha. Good one. May Fools!!! Got you.
anarchaosos on Sat, 16th May 2015 8:31 am
As with so many other jobs, now it looks like we are outsourcing production of Soylent Green.
JuanP on Sat, 16th May 2015 10:27 am
BS. While I will be forever grateful to India and China, particularly China for their sterilization programs which bought us some time, they backtracked on them and lost my admiration.
As far as Ghandi goes, I really like the guy, but he had four children and 13 grandkids, and if everybody did that we would end up where we are today with an absolutely ridiculous amount of people on the planet, so I consider him an idealistic ignorant fool.
As far as I am concerned all human beings should be forcefully sterilized (if they don’t volunteer first) after producing one biological offspring. I would also execute people who resist this immediately without any trial or anything. Nothing short of that would be adequate in the situation we are in today.
As 99+% of human beings think I am crazy for thinking like this, I see absolutely no hope for humanity. Human beings will continue breeding like rabbits, cockroaches, and locusts until they go extinct. The last breeding human couple will probably have 10 to 20 kids, IMO, and they will all die of disease and starvation before reaching puberty.
BobInget on Sat, 16th May 2015 10:27 am
Different times, new, pragmatic, reality based strategies.
JuanP on Sat, 16th May 2015 10:35 am
“Mr. Modi said, “The world today is going through two major crises — global warming and terrorism.”
BS. There is only one crisis, a POPULATION crisis. All our other problems are a consequence of the fact that we are too many because we are too stupid.
The smart thing to do was to get sterilized yesterday. The stupid thing to do is to be fertile today. The incredibly ignorant and stupid thing to do is to remain fertile tomorrow. People who don’t get this are totally hopeless.
Do your family and friends a favor and lead by example. Get sterilized now, if you haven’t already, and let everybody know. I tell EVERYBODY I meet at least three times that I had a Vasectomy, just to remind them that the option is there. It is fast, painless, and very cheap.
JuanP on Sat, 16th May 2015 10:48 am
“In 1976 Gandhi’s direct descendants numbered 47 in five nations.” That number must be way over 100 today! THIS IS WHAT IS DESTROYING THE BIOSPHERE! I can’t repeat it enough, I don’t care what people are or do as long as they breed sustainably, and most simply can’t!
http://wowmusings.blogspot.com/2006/12/how-many-children-did-mahatma-gandhi.html
MSN Fanboy on Sat, 16th May 2015 11:55 am
Juan P, Everything you say is true.
Davy on Sat, 16th May 2015 12:10 pm
Juan, I am for forced sterilization the sooner the better. Let’s skip a generation of births somehow. It will not be long and the end of life care will be over also. No more terminally ill old folks kept alive at great cost for 1 more year of life. Juan is correct all problems and predicaments have a human population component. Over population is the problem.
gdubya on Sat, 16th May 2015 12:48 pm
Why, Oh Why was this the first thing I thought of after reading the headline?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_%28The_Twilight_Zone%29
Perk Earl on Sat, 16th May 2015 1:20 pm
Commendable, even if it is purely symbolic of trying to make themselves look better to other countries by helping the poor. But where is all this ‘improve the conditions of the poor’ going to be when the world economy descends into a ‘grab whatever you can for yourself’ on the descent from peak oil? Well, for a while anyway there may be some coupons to hand out.
apneaman on Sat, 16th May 2015 1:31 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcx-nf3kH_M
apneaman on Sat, 16th May 2015 1:33 pm
Phillip Carville on Over Population
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnAQgdzGWXE
justeunperdant on Sat, 16th May 2015 2:10 pm
Some countries know about peak oil and are starting to adapt and change their behaviour, except Canada,US and Europe.
China is the manufacturing country of the planet and their cooperation is needed to manufacture the goods that will be needed in a lower oil consumption world. Russia has natural resources, China the manufacturing resource and machinery to produce the goods needs during the power down of civilization.
It makes perfect sense for them to work together.
Working together, will make it easier for them to gains access to middle east oil peacefully. They have a better diplomatic strategy then US, UK and Europe.
Washington has already notice that according to Paul Craig Roberts.
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2015/05/15/washington-coming-senses-paul-craig-roberts/
apneaman on Sat, 16th May 2015 2:22 pm
Doug Stanhope on climate change coverage and overpopulation
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2o7y_b04YE&feature=youtu.be
Perk Earl on Sat, 16th May 2015 2:37 pm
“They have a better diplomatic strategy then US, UK and Europe.”
That may be true Just, but what will China do when all those products they make are no longer exported to their Western clients that have descended into chaos? What will happen to India and Russia’s economies? It’s all tied together at this point.
justeunperdant on Sat, 16th May 2015 2:45 pm
I agreed at one point there will be no economy. What I mean is that they (China, Russia, Indian) are preparing for the moment when money become useless. Once money become useless China, Russian and Indian can trade together probably using barterer or some kind of trade agreement that does not involved money. It will easier for them to work together because they are friend and respect each other differences.
Davy on Sat, 16th May 2015 2:52 pm
Oh, JUST that is just about as far fetch as it gets. China, Russia, and India trade and barter after money is useless. All those billions of people trading and bartering their babies for food is more like it. Forget any decouple of these Bric basket case over populated countries. Russia is next to an over populated country that will descend on it like flys on shit. We are all going down together.
justeunperdant on Sat, 16th May 2015 2:56 pm
I don’t know the future, you could be right Davy. Like someone told me once, human are highly adaptable, doommer could have some surprises about human specie desire to live and adapt.
apneaman on Sat, 16th May 2015 3:05 pm
“India, China can together create a world that serves humanity”
Well since they are offering, I’ll have the tender Chicken Pakora, Butter chicken and pudina tandoori, General Tso’s chicken (large), chicken chow mein, beef & broccoli and 6 spring rolls…………………..delivery.
Davy on Sat, 16th May 2015 3:54 pm
JUST, I am a biased against Brics primarily because I hear so often how they will be the answer to the worlds problems. They will destroy the U.S. dominated leadership. While I agree they will bring an end to US hegemony they have no more future in a collapse global economy as the U.S. All nations have comparative advantages and disadvantages but the overriding negative is large populations.
JUST, I hope you are right and my doomishness is surprised be positives. In any case there will be good and bad shake out in each of our locals. On the global I see little optimism.
I didn’t mean to jump you on the bric thing it is just my instinct to flag waive that comes out. It is not flag waiving of superiority it is flag waiving of equals in a self destructing world.
Perk Earl on Sat, 16th May 2015 7:58 pm
We should get all of us peak oil doomers together and multiply what Ap’s ordering. I’m hungry!
Perk Earl on Sat, 16th May 2015 8:01 pm
And throw in some pot stickers with garlic sauce and hot sesame oil. Toss in another Tsing Tao beer and some fortune cookies. Done!
bicycledave on Sat, 16th May 2015 9:29 pm
Basic arithmetic and rationality supports JuanP’s POV and his suggested solution. However, solutions are only effective if implemented and yet implementation seldom happens unless people believe there is a real problem and truly want to solve the problem.
There is not much evidence that the predicament of our planet is understood by most people – therefore we see no relevant goals or a willingness to implement pragmatic solutions.
As a species, we can put robots on Mars but we can’t understand the simple math of overshoot and limits-to-growth. There must be a reason for this and I suspect that Richard Dawkins understands that reason – probably why he is hated by so many religious people. But seeing as how religion is not about to disappear anytime soon, maybe the best we can hope for is an Avatar-Movie type of religion to emerge in a few centuries.
Davy on Sun, 17th May 2015 5:39 am
Bike, Juan and I have the same POV and we both know the extreme nature of our solution is dead in the water. It is dead on many levels from religions to the pseudo religion of economics. In any case even that solution is not enough. We will still need at least 200MIL deaths over births a year over a generation to get population down to a post fossil fuel world of sustainability. http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Population.html
This billion number is most likely high because of climate disruption and ecosystem destruction. I would say 500MIL is the true carrying capacity for the earth in 50 years. Nature will have to take its course. Systematic collapse of BAU will likely involve a large die off in the billions in a short time if the collapse is deep enough. Food, fuel, and vital products will not be available. People will die quickly and in large numbers. The math is simple.
If this stretches on in a long emergency then we will see a paradigm shift of growth and progress to contraction and death. So many people will be dying and the economy contracting we will see counter development. Large areas will go back to nature like abandoned factories swallowed up by trees and weeds. We will see a whole variety of changes at all levels.
Some areas may remain somewhat intact. These would be locals and possibly regions that have comparative advantage of security and cooperation to maintain vital life support structures. Other areas will massively depopulate. If you are living in Las Vegas get the frig out soon. These places have no future. Places that will not have water, adequate food, and climate shelter will depopulate. The Great Plains is an example. How many towns rely on ground water for water on the Great Plains? New Orleans with its elaborate levees will never be able to maintain the levees. Besides climate change is going to raise sea level soon also.
Getting back to population we will probably see population growth stop dead in its tracks once food and fuel go into shortage. That could be in as little as 2-5 years. Once in shortage all hell will break lose financially and we will see great depression type scenarios without the resources to mitigate the economic free fall. We will have too large of a population without adequate supporting agriculture. Too few people on the farms and the farms too mechanized.
If we were smart we would have a massive return to the land in a Manhattan style effort. This will not happen because industry will never allow it and industry and the rich control policy. Such an effort would also mean massive wealth redistribution. The rich will never go for that. The effects on BAU would be to destroy it. There is no change or degrowth to BAU it is locked into a narrow range of required growth with economies of scale and interconnected production and distribution. BAU cannot do a big change without some vital component being disrupted and failing. Any vital node failure causes all the other vital nodes to fail. This is really a catch 22 on a level of BAU.
On the level of rebalance of consumption and population this is a vital and necessary adjustment. In human terms it will be painful, ugly, with death everywhere. Yet, at an ecosystem level we must have rebalance to avoid a serious extinction event that may include humans.
bicycledave on Sun, 17th May 2015 1:08 pm
Thanks Davy, hadn’t seen that population link before – I’ll put it on my website. And, thanks for explaining your POV. For the most part, I agree – the math and science is pretty clear. However, I like probabilities and mine run something like this:
Cornucopian – zero
BAU for several more decades – 10%
JMG (ish) – 50%
Doomer collapse in the next few decades – 40%
Why even 10% for BAU? Mostly because I’ve been wrong before and because I’m continually amazed at how much misery people will tolerate just to keep having children – and they tend to think of it as BAU. As for the “wrong before” part: my wife and I first became concerned with the publication of the “Population Bomb” in ’68 along with the ’73 & ’79 oil crises. We bought 80 acres in a very remote area near Lake Superior, learned how to build a cabin, and generally invested time in learning about self-sufficiency strategies. We kept the place for 20 years and enjoyed our time there for a variety of reasons that had little to do with survival notions. It was a beautiful area that brought its own rewards.
Eventually, as we got older, the remoteness, the hard winters, and mostly the prevalence of poverty, substantial alcoholism in the area, and non-acceptance of “city folks” convinced us to try something different in SE WI. With the skills we learned, we built a passive solar house in a semi-rural area and are happy to live out our days here (even if they are cut short).
The fact that Ehrlich’s worst-case scenarios (he didn’t make predictions) did not happen is irrelevant. I believe the Ehrlichs’ 2008 book “The Dominant Animal” explains very well what happened since ’68 and why the “bomb” is not defused. But, this taught me the rapaciousness of humans to perpetuate breeding practices at any cost to future generations and the planet itself. The incessant promotion of the “family” myth is so ingrained in political, religious and economic memes that it probably insures we continue to destroy the biosphere for awhile longer – until all physical limits are reached.
As for “solutions”, it seems to me that the most important component is for people to cast off the mentally crippling effects of brainwashing by political, religious and economic forces – which is what Dawkins talks about. Any hope for a humane population reduction effort certainly requires a totally new mindset regarding the sanctity of “family” and the so-called innate right of individuals to reproduce at will. The UN Universal Declaration of Human Rights (http://www.un.org/en/documents/udhr/) needs to be revisited.
Davy on Sun, 17th May 2015 2:32 pm
Great story Bike!
Look, I am an extremist of doom but I want more than anything for something less painful and drastic to shake out. My stance is until I see a critical mass of hopium I am preaching extremist doom. Yet, I respect those who have less drastic predictions.
I have little respect for the hard core BAUtopians of any color. It is their lies and delusions that will lead to much more suffering than we need to have. There are steps that can be taken to get us to less pain and suffering. These steps will not save us but they will make things less bad. The BAUtopians act like all will be well if we hold the course.
Anyway I hope to hear more from you BIke.
JuanP on Sun, 17th May 2015 6:35 pm
BikeDave, I’ve been wrong before, too, and just like you I have adapted my perspective and now believe that the collapse will take longer and be slower than I originally thought. We will do everything in our power to pretend it is not happening, and extend, delay, deny, and pretend even when it becomes obvious to most that we are doomed. Global fertility levels have been stabilizing and even increasing in some places in these last few years partially reverting previous trends and I think this is the beginning of a new trend that points to an increasing of fertility in the future. Once condoms, sterilizations, and the pill become more expensive and inaccessible to the masses i fear we will go back to having a lot more kids. That is why I recommend people get sterilized now. These things will become harder and harder to get, just like all other medical and dental services and supplies. The day is coming when condoms and pills will no longer be around. That combined with an increasing lack of understanding and education will inevitably lead to increase to increased fertility in the future, IMO. I expect natality, fertility, and mortality to increase drastically this century.
I am surprised I didn’t get any criticism for my comments, this is quite a crowd we got here at PO!
JuanP on Sun, 17th May 2015 6:36 pm
I wrote a word salad like Davy used to! 😉
Davy on Sun, 17th May 2015 6:51 pm
Juan, used to? I pride myself on doom salad. If you can’t convince the corns with normal words baffle them with word salad.
JuanP on Sun, 17th May 2015 7:05 pm
Davy, Using paragraph breaks has greatly increased the clarity of your comments, making them a lot easier to understand, though they will always be hard for the majority, just like mine.
And to think you used to blame it on your dislexia, when we now know that is was nothing more than laziness! You, lazy you! 😉
Davy on Sun, 17th May 2015 7:10 pm
Yea, peer pressure change me. I am actually finding it more enjoyable to write with breaks. I am not sure if it was all lazy some of it was being stubborn.
Apneaman on Sun, 17th May 2015 7:16 pm
Davy, I thought it was because you gave up the Redbull.
Hubbert on Sun, 17th May 2015 11:39 pm
Unfortunately, even China’s one child policy has failed. Truth be told, China and India are failed states. They have never managed to control their population growth.
simonr on Mon, 18th May 2015 7:42 am
If you are for forced sterilisation, what about eugenics, surely now is the chance to breed to the superman ?
zoidberg on Mon, 18th May 2015 11:18 am
Juanp you are a totalitarian lunatic. Your no less crazy than the people you oppose just different. Forced sterilization is just crazy stupid. Pretty emblematic of the peak oil faithful though. Its what makes me come back to post. Your awareness should be making you smarter not just meaner. Humility and compassion are needed too.
Davy on Mon, 18th May 2015 11:32 am
Zoid, I would love to hear your lame ideas for population management. You may even be one of those disciples of the pseudo scientist call economist. Zoid, drastic measures are needed for dangerous problems. If you don’t think population is a problem you are lacking the grey matter. All problems today revolve around overpopulation.
Yellow Yam on Sun, 12th Jul 2015 12:25 am
Indian special move: Desi superfuck!
1,000,000,000 worthless sludge shits. And now they are poor. Boo hoo.