One Third of North Dakota’s Natural Gas is Flared

33 Comments on "One Third of North Dakota’s Natural Gas is Flared"

JuanP on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 9:13 am 



I consider gas flaring undeniable evidence of human greed and lack of intelligence.

Northwest Resident on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 9:53 am 



Yeah — flaring reminds me of how they used to slaughter whole herds of buffalo just for their hides, leaving thousands of rotting skinned buffalo corpses for the flies and maggots, wasting so much to gain so little. That’s the American Way! Anything for a buck, and especially true when it comes to oil. No waste is too great it seems as long as we get that oil. Mother nature is sure to get the last laugh on us, though, and we’re not going to like it one little bit.

Plantagenet on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 9:54 am 



Instead of flaring we should collect the NG and ship it to Ukraine to replace Russian gas

bobinget on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 10:08 am 



One way to force infrastructure on oil patches would be to raise STRANDED natural gas prices.

If gas were selling for 2007/08 prices of $13.00 mmBTU we would see infrastructure go up licitly quick.

To get there, over $10, GOVERNMENT help would be
required. So as not to crash economies the government
could offer tax incentives to utilities who switch from coal. Transporting energy over copper is easier then
a pipeline.

Railroads are doing fine in the transition from coal
to oil. Miners, utilities, could be educated to make the switch to gas.

Not only would air and water quality improve many new jobs would be created.

BTW, check out how coal is doing prices wise!
If itv were not for China, our coal mines, (mountain top removers) would have closed years ago.

Yes, we could replace exporting coal with exporting NG now being flared.

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/natural-gas/all/

Northwest Resident on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 10:16 am 



Someday, if we’re lucky, what’s left of humanity will recognize the fact that there are much more important things in life than “making a buck”. If it weren’t for the need to make a profit, we could capture and use that flared NG. But the investors must get a return on their investment, and the drivers of industry won’t do anything unless it adds to their mountain of accumulated wealth, most of which has been gained by wasting natural resources.

rockman on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 10:17 am 



Unfortunately the economics are simple. It doesn’t matter how much NG is flared COLLECTIVELY in the state and what it’s worth. It’s a function of how much each well flares and what it costs to hook that well up to a sales line. The wells decline so quickly that while the initial NG flow rate looks attractive it quickly drops. In the end many wells don’t produce nearly enough NG to pay for the cost of the infrastructure to get it to the sales line.

There are folks trying to utilize the flared NG in one manner or another at the well head. Given the requirements to reduce flaring or cut their production rates back many operators would give the NG away for free. But the problem remains: no one is going to utilize any currently flared NG if they are going to lose money in the process.

rockman on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 10:37 am 



NR – “…there are much more important things in life than “making a buck”.

So then I take it you and others upset by the flaring would be willing to contribute to the cost of the infrastructure expansion? IOW not making a buck on such an investment isn’t that important to you? In fact you would be willing to lose money to help stop flaring? Or how about this: wouldn’t it be fair to put a surcharge on the products made from NG oil so the consumers benefiting from the flaring pay for the cost of capturing that NG?

And remember we’re not talking about reducing the GHG production created about flaring that NG: if pipelined out it would still be burned and the same GHG generated. So we’re just talking about the revenue lost by flaring. Revenue lost by the same folks collecting large revenue from the oil production.

I know that sounds like a rather catty comment but consider what you’re implying: you’re criticizing folks for not making a money losing investment. Everyone here could sell their ICE vehicle and go electric. Granted for many it would be an uneconomical option. But isn’t that exactly what you’re criticizing about the companies flaring NG: they aren’t making uneconomic choices.

Again in might seem like an unfair question but how many folks here have made decisions regarding saving the environment that lost them money? How many folks here have put up solar panels that will never save them enough to recover the costs? IOW made choices where money was more important.

buddavis on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 10:47 am 



Choices are always easier when it is someone elses money.

bobinget on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 10:49 am 



Rural folks in America know all about fuels ‘storage’.
Back in the day, even city folk took regular deliveries of cheap coal and heating oil.

Rural’s still use so called ‘yard bombs’ for propane storage. Why not utilities storing more CNG?

When Arctic Vortex breezes blow again in America’s NorthEast we may find ourselves scraping the bottom of our salt-mine storage like never before.
I’m saying, either we build power plants at well heads or a lot of Yankees will freeze in the dark.

2014
Hottest ever for planet since records started being kept.

Oh yeah, EIA inventory/consumption report out today
is showing consumption UP 2.2 % over last year.
So much for business.

http://ir.eia.gov/wpsr/wpsrsummary.pdf

Northwest Resident on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 10:54 am 



rockman — I get your point. But when I wrote “there are much more important things in life than ‘making a buck'”, I was contemplating an ideal world.

There’s the way it ought to be, and there’s the way it is. And the way it is, yes, sure, we are all running on that treadmill in race for the bucks. That’s the life we were born into and it’s the only life we can live.

I’m not blaming oil producers for doing what they have to do to make a buck — they’re just operating in the same system that we all are, doing what they have to do to survive. All I’m saying is that there IS more to life than making a buck — but given our current economic realities and the way the system is set up, you and I and everybody else has to make a buck.

No blame on the oil/NG producers here — the blame is shared by all of humanity, collectively — or better yet, let’s put all the blame squarely where it is due — on whoever created this universe!

Did you ever see that Jack Nicholson movie, “The Witches of Eastwick”? Remember the scene in the church where Jack’s character says something like “did God do this on purpose, or did he make a mistake?”

Same question — here we are on the verge of collapse of epic proportions, and we can step back and look at the collective mess that humanity has made of things. None of us are to blame, but we are ALL to blame. Hopefully we’ll learn from this experience, and in the next go-around we’ll keep in mind that there ARE more important things in life than making a buck.

bobinget on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 11:08 am 



Budd Davis’
If it were not for OPM (other peoples money) we would not have an economy. But you know that.

I was just teasing Right Wingers by suggesting government try to help anyone besides two per centers.

Instead, we are on our way to spending another trillion dollars to ‘defend our oil’ in the Mideast.
What if, instead, we develop cheaper energy storage?

This forum and others could continue to criticize each other or we could come up with new ideas now and again.

Plantagenet on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 11:19 am 



@bob I’m with you in deploring Obama’s decision to start up yet another stupid war in the ME resulting in more atrocious wasting of money. It would be far smarter to put that money on things like energy storage and other infrastructure development right here in the US.

Davy on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 11:22 am 



Rock is making a similar point as Short does and that is extraction that is more costly in energy/price than the end resulting production energy/price is an economic dead end. I used energy/price because they have a relationship in this scenario one more towards micro (price) the other macro (energy). Rock stated clearly the gas that can be utilized is generally being utilized at the well head. AGW is a wash because the gas would be burned anyhow. I see misguided economic and environmental understandings with a lack of appreciation for physics and economics.

Plantagenet on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 11:39 am 



The wellhead gas can be captured and used to generate power at the wellhead. A private company has developed small, cheap generators that can be moved from site to site and plugged in for as long as the gas flows.

http://innovationews.com/energy/capturing-flare-gas-offers-opportunity-for-pioneer-energy/

The technology to address this problem already exists.

rockman on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 12:34 pm 



Actually on general principle I’m opposed to flaring NG. If it’s minimal amount that’s OK. I’m flaring about $30 of NG per day from one of my wells. No economical options even close to doing anything with that small amount. But if it’s significant the operators should be forced to wait for pipeline infrastructure. Granted I’m not one of the operators that would be losing revenue from my oil wells while waiting on a pipeline.

But I’ve walked away from many viable NG drilling prospects that I couldn’t drill because of a lack of pipelines. I’ve plugged and abandoned more than one well that missed the oil target but found a nice NG reservoir that would have been very profitable to produce IF there had been a pipeline close enough.

To me it all falls under the category of “sh*t happens” and you deal with it. If ND operators weren’t allowed to flare a lot of NG they would have figured out a way to deal with the situation. Wasting energy is like how we viewed wasting food as a child: it was a sin. LOL

JuanP on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 1:04 pm 



Myself “I consider gas flaring undeniable evidence of human greed and lack of intelligence.”
After reading the comments above, I wanted to make sure that everyone understands what I meant to say.
I see gas flaring, in general, as a waste of a very valuable nonrenewable resource that causes nonproductive GHG emissions.
When I say that this is evidence of human greed and lack of intelligence, I don’t mean this as a personal insult to people who are forced to flare because of how the world is. What I am saying is that humanity’s greed and lack of intelligence are what created a world where producers are forced to do this.
Just wanted to be clear. 😉

Northwest Resident on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 1:17 pm 



“forced to flare because of how the world is”

It’s God’s fault. He created us stupid right out of the box.

Actually, I have a philosophy on this, not that anyone gives a damn. But here it is.

Each individual’s purpose in life, the reason for being here, is to experience life, to learn from our mistakes, to improve oneself, to help others do the same and to in general become a better person. In our youth we all make lots and lots of really stupid mistakes (some many more than others), and hopefully we survive those mistakes and by the time we’re advanced in age we can claim to have become a more experienced and better person, spiritually and morally speaking.

Maybe humanity is the same way. We are still in our youth, relatively speaking to geologic time, and we are most definitely making a lot of really stupid mistakes. Assuming we survive as a race and learn from our collective mistakes, maybe humanity will advance as a collective whole to become a wiser species.

Hey, when the whole world is falling apart due to human stupidity, you’ve got to be philosophical about it.

JuanP on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 1:23 pm 



NR, LOL. I won’t get started on my youthful mistakes because we don’t have enough time. I definitely fit in that bracket category in your comment.
I agree we are a young species, and learning and evolving every day. It’d be nice if something better came of it.

Northwest Resident on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 1:49 pm 



JuanP — I’d match my youthful screw-ups to yours any day and no way you’d come out “the winner”. 🙂

“It’d be nice if something better came of it.”

Yeah, one can only hope. I tend to believe that the way to correct a problem is to face up to it, to man-up, take responsibility and make the hard choices to put it all right.

As it is, humanity is currently doing everything possible to deny and avoid dealing with its most serious problems. Like an alcoholic stumbling from one deathly hangover to the next, we just keep doing the same self-defeating behavior over and over, making things worse and worse. Our addiction to oil and economic growth will be the death of us all — well, most of us. Hopefully those who survive will learn from the mistakes and make needed changes in lifestyle. Or, more likely, those lifestyle changes will be forced on us and we won’t have a choice — deal with reality or perish. No pain, no gain, I guess…

Apneaman on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 3:34 pm 



The people in Greece, who have no money for NG or heating oi,l have been burning their furniture and anything else they can get their hands on. The gov has had to put armed guards on forest patrol lest the plebs burn it all. That is our fate; we will burn it all until we can’t. The feedback loops have been unleashed and no one can stop them. Simple physics, yet monkeys keep pretending otherwise.

Davy on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 4:32 pm 



Apnea, the Missouri Ozarks were deforested in the late 19th century. We now have a large forest resource because FF took the pressure off our forests. I foresee a period of deforestation coming with the descent. I often wonder how some people will burn wood with no wood stoves. I also wonder how some of these modern glass buildings will ventilate with windows that don’t open. These are some of the wonders of the descent ahead.

Apneaman on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 7:20 pm 



If your kids are freezing and/or hungry and crying and you have a squirrel or two that needs cooking, a stove is not an immediate priority. One could build a rocket stove after that.

JuanP on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 7:52 pm 



Apneaman, Most people got no idea what a rocket stove is, how it works, how to build one, or what advantages it has.
I have built several rocket stoves in my life out of cans and perlite, and also using concrete and 5 gallon buckets.
I use rocket stoves regularly in my rafting trips. They are the most efficient way to build a no trace fire for cooking and heating water or a shelter using the least amount of wood possible.

Nony on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 7:55 pm 



Most of it is permitting issues on Federal land. Way to go Obama!

JuanP on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 8:03 pm 



I highly recommend the “concrete bucket rocket stove” to all home preppers. This type of stove will allow you to cook and heat water in the most efficient way possible using any combustible material. It works great with twigs and small sticks. It needs very small amounts of fuel, a small fraction of what would be needed on a campfire.
Building one is a great low cost prepper project. If you are interested watch the videos on how to build them over on YouTube.

Northwest Resident on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 8:03 pm 



Easy 1-minute rocket stove directions right here:

ht tp://www.mnn.com/earth-matters/energy/blogs/how-to-make-your-own-rocket-stove-with-a-few-cinder-blocks

No big chunks of wood required. Sticks work really good.

JuanP on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 8:10 pm 



NR, Cinder blocks don’t last long on rocket stoves, they end up crumbling to pieces, but they make an easy short term solution for a few days. Thermal bricks work better and last forever, 16 will do. You just stack them, use the stove, and when you are done you can put the bricks away, no mortar or nothing, just a pile of 16 bricks on some corner somewhere. Instructions on YouTube.

Northwest Resident on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 8:16 pm 



JuanP — I didn’t know that. Thanks for the tip! Wow, I think somebody may have just saved my life… 🙂

What else do you know?!!

JuanP on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 8:29 pm 



NR, LOL. Where basic low cost low tech survival equipment and skills are concerned, I guess I can call myself an expert. These things have been my hobby since I was 10 and I joined the Boy Scouts. I have had my own tools, gear, clothing, backpacks, cooking gear, etc. since then, most of it custom made, repaired, or upgraded by myself by now. The best gear is the one you make yourself in many cases, rocket stoves being a perfect example.
For an urban prepper a good rocket stove, and solar oven are the most basic ideal cooking system, IMO. Anything you add to that will improve it, but you can make do with that.
In woodland environments, a campfire, grill, and Dutch oven will do long term, too.

Nony on Wed, 22nd Oct 2014 8:59 pm 



Rockman: It’s stranded gas. Flare it. If it makes economic sense, capture it. IF not flare it. $$ baby. You should be doing that for your owner. If not, you are screwing up.

rockman on Thu, 23rd Oct 2014 9:36 am 



Nony – Exactly my point: me and my cohorts have a simple model: max cash flow for our owners. That’s why I flare $30 of NG per day to produce $13k of oil every day. Common sense, eh? That’s why if the state wants to reduce the amount of NG flared they need to change the regs. Companies will find a way to comply because their driving force, profits, remains the same. Companies do what they have to do to function. We function well in La despite their much tighter pollution regs and ridiculously high severance tax. It can be done…if we’re forced to do it.

Nony on Fri, 24th Oct 2014 9:54 pm 



Why should they create a regulation to make someone do something that makes no sense? It’s economical to get the oil from the location but not the gas. So flare it.

P.s. A lot of the issues in ND are from the Feds not approving the gas pipelines. So much for Obama rebuilding infrastructure. Instead pipelines are held up by bureaucrats.

Daniel on Fri, 11th Dec 2015 11:34 am 



How about burning that gas in a turbine that runs a generator and feeds the energy back into the electric grid rather than wasting it? Doe not seem like rocket science to me