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Page added on August 13, 2016
The Myth of Self Reliance
A mass emailing went out a while back from a prominent permaculturist looking for “projects where people are fully self sufficient in providing for their own food, clothing, shelter, energy and community needs. . .” There it was, the myth of “fully self sufficient,” coming from one of the best-known permaculturists in the world. In most US permaculture circles, the idea that anyone could be self sufficient at anything past a very primitive level was abandoned a while ago, and the softer term “self reliant” replaced it. But even self-reliance is barely possible, and, other than as way of expressing a desire to throw off the shackles of corporate consumerism, I don’t think it’s desirable.
I took a Googling cruise around the internet and found that “self sufficient” shows up as a desirable goal on several top permaculture websites. I’d like to hammer a few coffin nails into that phrase. My dictionary says that self sufficient means being “able to maintain oneself without outside aid.” Who lives without outside aid? No one. Let’s unpack that a bit further. The meaning of “self sufficient in food” is something most of us can agree on: supplying 100% of your food needs from your own land and efforts. I have never met anyone who has done this. I’m sure there are a few people doing it, but even subsistence farmers usually raise, alongside their food, a cash crop to buy the foods that are impractical for them to grow.
I hear people say they are growing 30%, 50%, even 70% of their own food. What they usually mean is that they are growing fruits and vegetables that make up some percentage of the total cost or weight—but not calories—of their food. Vegetables are high in wet weight, but low in calories. If you are growing 100% of your own vegetables, they provide about 15-20% of your daily calories, unless you are living mostly on potatoes or other starchy veggies. Most daily calories come from grains, meat, or dairy products. So if you’re not raising large-scale grains or animals, it’s unlikely that you are growing more than one-quarter of your own food, measured honestly by nutritional content. In that case, it’s not accurate to claim you are “70% food self-sufficient.” If you are getting most of your calories from your land, you’re almost certainly a full-time farmer, and I salute you for your hard work. Now we begin to see how difficult, and even undesirable, self sufficiency is. You won’t have time for much else if you are truly food self-sufficient, even in a permaculture system.
But even if you grow all your own food, can you claim you are self sufficient if you don’t grow all your own seeds? Provide all your fertility? Where do your farm tools and fuel come from? Permaculturists understand as well as anyone how interconnected life is. At what point do you claim to be disconnected from the broad human community in anything? Is there really a way to be “fully self sufficient” in food?
Let’s take a quick pass at clothing, shelter and energy. Even if you sew all your clothes, do you grow the cotton, raise the sheep? If you milled all the lumber or dug the stone for your home, did you forge the glass, fabricate the wiring? In the off-the-grid house, what complex community of engineers and factories assembled the solar panels? We’re reliant on all of that.
Claiming self sufficiency in almost anything insults and ignores the mountain of shoulders we all stand on. US permaculturists are a pretty politically correct crew, and it became obvious to some of us that “self sufficient” was not just impossible, but was a slap in the face to all those whose sweat provides for us, and was another perpetuation of the cowboy ethic that puts the individual at the center of the universe. So the term morphed into “self reliance,” to show that we know we are interdependent, but are choosing to be less reliant on others. At its best, self reliance means developing skills to provide for basic needs, so we can stop supporting unethical and destructive industries. But I see much less need for self-reliant people who can do everything themselves, and much more need for self-reliant communities, where not everyone knows how to weave or farm, but there is clothing and food for all.
There is still a deep prejudice in permaculture, as websites and emails show, that doing it all ourselves, and on our own land, is the most noble path. And insofar as our skills make us less dependent on corporate monopolies, developing the abilities that we think of as self-reliant is worth doing. However, the more we limit our lives to what we can do ourselves, the fewer our opportunities are. Each connection outside ourselves enriches us. When we create a web of interdependencies, we grow richer, stronger, safer, and wiser. Why would you not want to rely on others? To fully probe that would take us down a psychological rabbit-hole, but some of it is grounded in a belief that others are unreliable or unethical, and that we weaken ourselves by interdependencies. But the old saying “if you want a job done well, do it yourself” simply shows poor management skills.
If you’re still skeptical, I’ll resort to scripture: a quote from the Book of Mollison, Introduction to Permaculture, page two: “We can also begin to take some part in food production. This doesn’t mean that we all need to grow our own potatoes, but it may mean that we will buy them directly from a person who is already growing potatoes responsibly. In fact, one would probably do better to organize a farmer-purchasing group in the neighborhood than to grow potatoes.”
As veteran permaculture designer Larry Santoyo says, go to the highest generalization to fill your needs. Thinking “I must grow my food” is painfully limited. Thinking “I must satisfy food needs responsibly” opens up a vast array of possibilities, from which you can choose the most stable and appropriate. Individual efforts are often less stable and resilient than community enterprises. And they’re bad design: self-reliance means that a critical function is supported in only one way. If you grow all your food and get hurt, you are now injured, hungry, and watching your crops wither from your wheelchair. That won’t happen in a community farm. And for those worried about an impending collapse of society, the roving turnip-bandits are much more likely to raid your lonely plot while you sleep exhausted from a hard day of spadework, and less likely to attack a garden protected by a crew of strong, pitchfork-wielding farmers who can guard it round the clock.
Creating community reliance gives us yet another application of permacultural zones: Zone zero in this sense is our home and land. Zone one is our connection to other individuals and families, zone two to local commerce and activities in our neighborhood, zone three to regional businesses and organizations, zone four to larger and more distant enterprises. Why would we limit ourselves to staying only in zone zero? We can organize our lives so that our need for zone-four excursions—say, to buy petroleum or metal products—is very limited, while our interactions with the local farmers’ market and restaurants are frequent. This builds a strong community.
Self reliance fails to grow social capital, a truly regenerative resource that can only increase by being used. Why would I not want to connect to my community in every way that I can? If we don’t help fill our community’s needs, there’s more chance that our neighbors will shop at big-box stores. An unexamined belief in self reliance is a destructive myth that hands opportunity to those who are taking our community away from us.
If you love being a farmer, then yes, grow all your own food. And sell the rest for the other things you need, in a way that supports your community. But is there really a difference between a farmer exchanging the product of her labor—food—for goods and money, and me selling the product of my labor—education—for goods and money? We both are trading our life energy within a system that supports us, and I’d like to think that we are both making wise ethical choices.
A good permaculture design is one that provides for the inhabitants’ needs in a responsible and ecologically sound manner. But there’s nothing in permaculture that says that it’s important for all yields to come from the owner’s site! If I can accomplish one thing in this essay, it is to smash that myth. Permaculture design simply says that our needs and products need to be taken care of responsibly in our design, not on our own land. That design can—and must—include off-site connections. If you are an acupuncturist whose income is provided by your community and you are getting most of your needs met from mostly local sources you believe to be ethical, then that’s excellent permaculture design. Your design will be stronger if your needs and products are connected to many off-site elements and systems.
It’s very permacultural to develop skills that will connect you more deeply to land, home, and community. And sometimes the skills that we gained in search of self reliance are the same ones we need to be more community-reliant. But self reliance, as a goal in itself, is a tired old myth that needs to die. It’s unpermacultural.
38 Comments on "The Myth of Self Reliance"
peaksocialgayness on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 12:46 am
A bear gets 10 times the calories than a human needs without society,tools or brains. Society enslaves individuals by favoring harmful mutations and low intelligence by making you more weak, dependent and helpless every generation. It spreads diseases. It invents fears, lies and traditions to keep itself together and grow. It destroys the planet. You are too damaged to survive outside it. Just keep building a bigger anthill until your dna is so mutated that you are unable to reproduce.
makati1 on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 1:34 am
If you want to understand why self sufficiency is not possible because you cannot get enough calories (energy) from veggies alone, look up the feed and water needed to raise a pound of beef.
“People keep about 1,300,000,000 beef cattle worldwide (this excludes dairy cattle) (Table 1).
Over half the world’s beef cattle live in three countries: India, Brazil and China (Table 1).
People kill nearly 300 million beef cattle annually worldwide (Table 2)”
http://www.animalethics.org.uk/i-ch7-4-cattle.html
“… now 4.67 pounds of corn were required for each 1 pound of beef.” (Plus forage)
http://www.animalethics.org.uk/i-ch7-4-cattle.html
“About 460 gallons for 1/4 pound of beef,” Or ~1,800 gallons per pound.
http://water.usgs.gov/edu/activity-watercontent.php
Beef is going to go extinct before man.
q1 on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 5:13 am
Self reliance would be even harder in the collapse scenario with thousands hungry and aggressive people for every “self sufficient” person. You would need to be not only perfect farmer but also Chuck Norris style fighter to survive in such environment.
Davy on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 7:40 am
“Do something!” how about instead of being a bump on a couch. I am fully into permaculture farming and doom and prep. I am getting my assed kicked so how the hell do we expect society as a whole to make that kind of transition? They can’t and won’t. It will never happen so quit fantasizing about it. It will be a die off and all the talk about growing your own food and being sustainable and resilient is a bunch of shit noise. Yet, we don’t know how this shit storm is going to hit. We don’t know where and when so start doing something. If nothing else learn something about why we are entering a collapse process of death, decay, deflation, destruction, and desecration. I was trying to see how many D’s that would pop out of my head. I am a permaculture doomer and prepper with a lot of the right stuff and I am still not doing it. I am going to face the same shit others do when the shit hits the fan but at least I have a plan and I am doing something. I love what I am doing and it gives me a pulse. How many of you have a pulse?
paulo1 on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 9:02 am
Well said, Davy.
Our family also grows a great deal of our own food, including meat birds, eggs, and all veggies. We also harvest a lot of fish.
But, I sure do like my chainsaw, and truck, and clothes, tools…. the list is endless.
Davy on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 9:57 am
Good to see you back Paulo. We need your proven prep experience. I hope things have quieted enough for you to feel comfortable.
paulo1 on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 11:26 am
Yeah, they have settled down. I plan to just ignore some stuff.
The west coast is very different weather than what you have in Missouri? And Ghungs. Although, we did get a very dry spring this year. Early summer was pretty normal for rainfall. Now, it is going to be dry for the rest of August and most likely into Sept. Windy.
No salmon this year, hardly at all. Fishing is closed down in the Fraser River to protect sockeye runs, including for Natives. Most think it was due to our very warm el Nino this winter. We’ll just have to see if we get our salmon this year? If the stocks are low in our river, I just won’t fish. Plus, it has been too windy to get out on the ‘chuck’. 35 kts everyday.
Anyway, back to the sustainable thing. This weather feels like fall. There is just a ‘tinge’ to the air and the leaves are changing and starting to drop. We have switched to making fruit wines instead of buying grapes as we did in the past. The whole house smells like wine. We are making 10 gal (cdn) of apple/yellow plum for a dry white, 10 gal of purple plums which makes a dry blush/rose, and 10 gal of blackberry which if fruited heavy rivals a good hearty Zin. I also plan to take a 26er of vodka and put it in a big jar and fill with blackberries to make a liquor for winter sipping. We’ll try this, anyway. We do have a wine room for storage, but the production area is quite cool and I would have to run a heater for initial fermentation. So, when the primary is done we will move the secondaries out there to age in bulk before bottling.
30 gal wine should end up being approx 135 litres bottled up. For everyday table/kitchen wine we use the 1.5 litre bottles. The blackberry will be done in 750 ml bottles and trotted out for big suppers. Plus, I like Crown Royal so every time I do a welding or carpentry job for someone I just tell them to buy me a bottle of Crown. (big bottle).
No, we are not alcoholics, but it is sure nice to be able to offer people a drink when they come buy, or sip wine while cooking supper. Plus, we have all this fruit and berry production. How much jam can we eat? Pies? On the ride down to a ‘less store-bought’ lifestyle we seem/might be heading for I heartily recommend homemade winemaking. Even if you do not have your own fruit trees, many many people do and I would say most folks seldom bother picking their fruit. It can be your for the asking in many cases. Outlaw Country, or Willies Roadhouse with homemade wine while the woodstove is going has got to be the definition of contentment on a rainy winter day.
paulo1 on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 11:34 am
One more thing on homemade booze. Years ago I built a still. I then took bulk demarra sugar and mixed up a batch of must to 13% alcohol (after 14% the alcohol kills off the yeast and you are just wasting sugar). When fermentation stopped I ran it twice through the still and made an absolutely wonderful over-proof rum. You could even mix it with vanilla and other spices and make your own spiced rum. My still was welded up in the mill, but you can make them out of the old stainless fire extinguishers, or beer kegs. Some people convert pressure canners (although aluminum may be dodgy to ferment in and distill with). Anyway, every instruction is online for people to follow.
JuanP on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 1:49 pm
Paulo, I wondered what was up with you a couple of days ago. It’s good to have you back!
This is a very good article. I have struggled with these issues. I have a problem trusting people so when we decided to buy our first condo my wife and I became realtors in spite of the fact that our closest friends in Miami Beach were a family of four realtors including a broker who owned his own agency. We went to work with them and the broker, our friend, found us our first condo. I have been like this all my life because growing up I couldn’t trust my parents, teachers, priests, or government.
I naturally drifted into survivalism as a teen and then prepping as an adult as a consequence of this. I never felt safe in this world so I focused on the basics: shelter, water, food, energy, and primitive technologies. I am still focused on the basics today.
When I finally decided to purchase land and start building a mini farm, I accepted that it was better to do it as part of a community of friends and family. I reached the conclusion that you can’t defend and protect your property 24/7 without at least five people. So safety in numbers was my main concern. I also realized that I could design my home but didn’t want to actually build it myself. Then I asked one of my uncles, a retired electrical engineer to help with the electrical systems. From there the next step was asking two of my cousins, an agronomist and a veterinarian, for help with the fruit trees and animals. My family provided the building materials as a gift, and so on.
Even before that I always understood that my prepping was based on purchasing things from others, too, because it made sense. I can buy a pair of used blue jeans for a couple of dollars; why would I want to make them? I have purchased tools, long shelf life food, PVs and batteries, guns and ammo, materials, clothing, etc.
My experience in the community gardens helped me realize the advantages and disadvantages of being part of a group. I have learned so much about gowing food, preserving, and eating it from the gardens members through the years and I have had so many good times interacting with them. On the other hand, I have also realized that most people take more than they give and can’t be counted on to help when needed. Of the almost 200 members at the gardens at any given time it is always less than ten that do most of the work. I accept that because I cannot change it.
JuanP on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 2:07 pm
Paulo “Even if you do not have your own fruit trees, many many people do and I would say most folks seldom bother picking their fruit.”
I don’t have any fruit trees in Miami but I harvest more fruit than I can eat from friends’ gardens, clients’ gardens, and the two community gardens I am a member of. Yesterday I had bags of Starfruits from the community gardens and today I am making mango marmalade from mangoes I picked this morning at some friends’ home. They would rot on the ground or be taken by the landscaping people otherwise. I like mango marmalade. I peel, seed, and blend the mangoes, and then I add some water, reduce them for a few hours on the stove and can them in wide mouth 600 ml mason jars. All it takes is mangoes and water. This was my last mango harvest of the year because I have nowhere left to put them. I also have at this time fresh sugar apples, papayas, avocados, and bananas that I harvested for free, too.
Apneaman on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 6:21 pm
Prosperity Shining
“The picture below is of South Korea, before and after. After what, I’m not quite sure, 5 years, 10 years, it doesn’t really matter. By damned if it doesn’t look like a lung pet scan with numerous tumors and small spots of metastatic growth. There’s really nothing more that the human RNA like more than more wealth pumped into their cells from the reservoirs of fossil fuels and the ecosystem. The pathologist (myself) has carefully evaluated this radiograph below and can confidently report that the condition is Stage Four.”
“India, between 1994 and 2010 has shown very robust growth, no doubt pulling many RNA into cells to work in luminous environments. The cancer seems to be spreading and the metabolism growing in intensity. It doesn’t seem that there could be another doubling of growth within this political boundary, let alone support of existing development for more than a decade of two.”
http://megacancer.com/2016/08/14/prosperity-shining/
kervennic on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 6:57 pm
Kind of sophistic essay. The goal of self reliance is to decrease or supress the reliance on fossil fuel and develop a practical individual and social intelligence to survive.
This is requirement to survive.
It means that if the world become chaotic soon and people die in mass, those who will survive will have this mindset and solid experience.
Not all of us will survivre, but some of us, and the culture that we might build will help them.
All the other one will die and will be a plague to the survivors, adding nothing. They are just impedinments.
Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 7:25 pm
Cannabalism will probably be the best option for the first little while. Humans are probably the easiest game to hunt, bait and trap.
Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 7:32 pm
https://youtu.be/DhvbbxiOhhs
Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 7:37 pm
In a total collapse scenario many it might be best to kill everyone (everyone not in your band of merry survivalists that is) in your immediate environment so as they don’t compete with you for scarce resources like food and water. Some could be spared to do gardening work for you but most folks who are either useless or competitive might need to be neutralized.
Apneaman on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 9:30 pm
Truth, in a “total” collapse scenario there will be no one around to maintain the nuclear power plants, which means there will be approximately 450 meltdowns. Unless you know of some secret big global government plan to keep them up and running so we can all play survivor. Everything will collapse except the nuclear power plants, because that’s not in the script so it’s not allowed to happen.
makati1 on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 9:38 pm
Ap, denial by ignoring the real world is common here. Thinking has become a lost art for most. The is already ~80,000 TONS of nuclear waste that will need to be managed for longer than you or I will live, in the US alone.
http://www.nei.org/CorporateSite/media/Images/Infographics/Used-Fuel-Storage.jpg?width=8261&height=6384&ext=.jpg
Those who believe we are NOT going extinct in this century are denying reality.
Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 11:10 pm
You fucking retards think there’ll be time for a little cannobalism before the nucs meltdown? Collapse doesn’t just happen In a split second dumb ass. It’s a drawn out process. Someone’ll have you for dinner long before the nucs meltdown. It’s like talking to a bunch of fucking retards around here.
Truth Has A Liberal Bias on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 11:29 pm
There are 2 sources of heat produced by nuclear fuel.
The first is heat by the nuclear fission process (splitting the atom). When a reactor is online at 100% power, roughly 93% of the energy produced comes from the fission process. The reactor scram system can stop this process within seconds, and within minutes fission is producing less than .001% of the reactors heat output.
The second heat source is from the radioactive waste products in the fuel. These waste products produce roughly 7% of the reactor’s heat output. When you shutdown the reactor, this heat keeps being produced, regardless of the state of the fission process. This is because the heat is caused by a phenomenon we have no control over (radioactive decay), and the only way for this heat output to decrease is for the radioactive waste products to break down over time. My guess is someone’ll bulldoze all the fuel into the ocean in an impeding collapse scenario. If fucking retards like this doom porn circle jerk crew can see collapse coming I’m sure some nuclear physicist in charge of various reactor facilities will too and then take measures to mitigate a meltdown. Ape you are one stupid fucking retard you know that!?
Apneaman on Sun, 14th Aug 2016 11:59 pm
Sure truth, you know best from your previous experience global collapsing right?….with nuclear power plants and AGW jacked rain bombs dropping out of the sky onto cities and towns almost everyday. Guess what fuck head, the process of collapse started a couple of decades ago and you do not know when the shit will hit, because no one does so stop pretending to know shit you don’t. You’re the fucking retard here who has only one version of collapse – the one where you go Rambo and everyone else is the victim because you have ammo N guns. Are you in top physical shape there truthy? All trained up today or waiting for a clearer sign before you start jogging 15k a day to get ready? There could be a market crash tomorrow that sets bad things in motion – it’s happened before and no one knows how much resilience is left.
You notice the rain bombs dropping all over N America and the new and improved wildfires? Well, now we still have the resources to respond to them, but how long do you think that’ll last? There was one measurement of 24″ of rain falling in one day in Louisiana and they rescued over 7000 folks. What is that much rain falls on one of those Ontario nuclear power plants? How far is your bug out mountain from those bad boys? Or how about a fire like Fort McMurray where they had to evacuate 90,000 people? What happens when one of those gets near a nuclear power plant? Tell yourself the people in charge have a plan – sure thing. There are dozens of possible scenarios of collapse fuck ups I could go on about. None you have thought of, but why would you when you’re working from a script you thought up a while back. I bet there is a damsel in distress somewhere in there right after the second act, hey truth? You and your sex queen defending your crates of ammo and MRE’s up on bug out mountain.
kervennic on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 5:39 am
They are people (old) surviving, farming, in Tchernobyl no go zone.
Some people will survive a collapse.
We have to stop this crazy technological race toward extinction by quiting as much as we can this consumption society that is already transforming us in zombies.
Nobody is eternal, living self reliance is first about freedom and finding a meaning to ones life.
Our society is a dead end and has no meaning, it does not provide any fun anylonger, just anxiety.
I live better off isolated from it, though i´d say i am still not isolated enough and try to get more and more self reliant by the day.
peakyeast on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 9:55 am
@paulo1: Thanks for being here. It is much appreciated.
I am curious: Why is aluminium pressure cooker “dodgy” to distill in?
I am not a fan of alchohol, but I am curious 🙂
Apneaman on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 10:34 am
Auto Lending: Last Week Tonight with John Oliver
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4U2eDJnwz_s
PracticalMaina on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 11:22 am
Apneaman, it is pretty easy for people to forget the massive sacrifice by the firefighters of Chernobyl and the volunteers of Fukushima, that were required to have some degree of less than full potential destruction of the power of nukes. It is kind of like people forgetting the sacrifices of human lives on the ff alter….
Apneaman on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 1:19 pm
Good explainer article.
For Louisiana, The Rains of Climate Change Fall Hard — More Heavy Storms Expected to Hit Central US
-Louisiana Floods Worst Ever Recorded
-More Big Storms Predicted From Texas Through the Great Lakes
https://robertscribbler.com/2016/08/15/for-louisiana-the-rains-of-climate-change-fall-hard-more-heavy-storms-expected-to-hit-central-us/
Lawfish1964 on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 2:46 pm
Paulo, I’m doing the same as you. I started making beer again last year and converted my whole basement into a spirits production facility. A friend has 20 pear trees and she shared 80 lbs. of pears with me. I built a cider press and have 5 gallons of pear/honey cider fermenting away. I will share half with her. But she said they have 10 times as many pears as what I got and they mostly just go to waste. Next year, I’ll go out there and collect all I can and make about 5 batches of cider.
I also built a still and have learned the difficult art of making whiskey from corn, wheat and barley. I now have lots of products to barter for things I don’t produce like wild game meat and chickens. The guy I buy chickens from goes hunting out west every year and we’re going to trade beer for elk meat after his next hunt.
I agree no one can be completely self-reliant, which is why I’m actively building relationships with other like-minded folks who believe in bartering homemade things.
Lawfish1964 on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 2:52 pm
Peakyeast, the only metals safe for distilling are stainless steel and copper. That’s all that’s used in commercial stills and hobby stills. I don’t know why aluminum is not safe, but I do what the pros do.
ghung on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 4:50 pm
Here’s a nice home still I’ve been assembling the components for:
http://homedistiller.org/image/mini_explained.jpg
It’s both a reflux-mode still and a pot-still mode design, depending on how you use it. Don’t know if I’ll ever get around to making/using it (illegal in the US) but looks like fun. The large stainless pot is available at our local Walmart . All stainless scouring pads are available for the scrubbers, as are copper. I have my mother’s collection of big/heavy stainless canning pots, but doubt I’ll sacrifice the big one for this project. Most of the other parts are off-the-shelf plumbing stuff. I plan to braise with silver instead of soldering. I also have some nice stainless valves and stuff.
As for aluminium, it will corrode pretty quickly if used for a still. Stainless canners are very pricey.
Apneaman on Mon, 15th Aug 2016 5:53 pm
We’ll see who is self reliant when the day comes that there are no more Big Gov rescues and bailouts from the next rain bombardment or mega wildfires.
Billion-Dollar Flood Has Louisiana Reeling; 98L May Become a Tropical Depression
“Floodwaters have finally crested across most of southern Louisiana after a harrowing weekend of record-high water that left at least six people dead, pushed at least 10,000 people into shelters, and prompted the rescues of more than 20,000 people. The federal government has declared the event a major disaster in four parishes: Tangipahoa, St. Helena, East Baton Rouge and Livingston. According to the insurance broker Aon Benfield, “The major flood and thunderstorm event that impacted parts of Louisiana, Texas, and Arkansas during March 2016 caused roughly USD1.5 billion in economic damage. It is currently anticipated that the August 2016 event will approach and possibly exceed this cost once all damage incurred to homes, businesses, public facilities, vehicles, infrastructure, and agriculture is taken into account.”Floodwaters have finally crested across most of southern Louisiana after a harrowing weekend of record-high water that left at least six people dead, pushed at least 10,000 people into shelters, and prompted the rescues of more than 20,000 people. The federal government has declared the event a major disaster in four parishes: Tangipahoa, St. Helena, East Baton Rouge and Livingston. According to the insurance broker Aon Benfield, “The major flood and thunderstorm event that impacted parts of Louisiana, Texas, and Arkansas during March 2016 caused roughly USD1.5 billion in economic damage. It is currently anticipated that the August 2016 event will approach and possibly exceed this cost once all damage incurred to homes, businesses, public facilities, vehicles, infrastructure, and agriculture is taken into account.”
https://www.wunderground.com/blog/JeffMasters/billiondollar-flood-has-louisiana-reeling-98l-may-become-a-tropical-
Apneaman on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 2:48 pm
So how are all the deep south “Energy Voters” feeling today?
40,000 Homes Impacted by Deadly Flooding in Louisiana
“40,000 people have registered with FEMA for disaster assistance.”
https://weather.com/news/weather/news/gulf-coast-deadly-flooding-thousands-rescued-evacuated-latest-news
40,000 – so far. They must be all democrats, because we all know that libertarians and self reliant conservatards don’t cotton to no Big Gov hand outs. Keep up that energy voting btw, looking real good on ya now huh? – two once in 1000 years rain bombardments in 4 months.
Cloggie on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 3:15 pm
The Great Mississippi Flood of 1927 was the most destructive river flood in the history of the United States,[1] with 27,000 square miles inundated up to a depth of 30 feet
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Mississippi_Flood_of_1927
Cloggie on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 3:22 pm
Apneaman, are you posting from a hospital?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apnea
Apneaman on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 3:31 pm
No shit4 it has to do with the type of games I play with certain women who like it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erotic_asphyxiation
Cloggie on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 3:48 pm
OK, sorry to hear that.
Bit of a freak of nature, you (“shoot first, ask questions later”).
Strangle sex, anal porn, killer tendencies, sigh.
Little hope for this world.
Apneaman on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 4:31 pm
Shit4, no wrong again – just human. Apparently you grew up sheltered and have no idea what humans are. I was right after all – it is a mommy thing. Did she keep you locked in a closet or something? Holy fuck isn’t your country famous as a legal whoring (window prostitution) and drugging destination?
“Little hope for this world”
Well, at least you finally got one thing right even if you don’t understand why.
Apneaman on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 5:11 pm
Fuck, everytime it rains and there is even a minor flood in that part of the US the denier tards pull out the 1927 flood card.
shit4, you do not understand the difference between that mississippi flood of 1927 and these new rain bombs do you? First off, you obviously don’t know the difference in flood protection and land management (levees and floodways) the US government has built since 1927 either. You could not have the same result with that level of rainfall today given the dramatic man made changes (protections) to the landscape. You can read all about in that link you put up but obviously did not read (your own evidence argues against you) The very fact that all these flood protections that worked for many many decades are now being breached with regularity should be your first clue. Something is different now – what is it shit4? If you actually read the links I provide instead of assuming you know things you do not, you would not continue to look like the fucking retard that you are. Another clue should be that a similar rain bombardment happened in the same place just 4 months ago and a handful more have happened recently in the US and Europe and other parts of the world – just as it was predicted to – not that we need a fancy climate model to understand that when water or land and trees containing water heats up the moisture in them evaporates and thus adds moisture to the atmosphere which will sooner or later come down somewhere (that’s called the hydrologic cycle in case you weren’t there in grade 5 science class that day).
I’ve put up like 6-7 links in the last few days that explain and demonstrate why this flooding is unprecedented, but there you are with the old 1927 flood card.
For Louisiana, the Rains of Climate Change Fall Hard — More Heavy Storms Expected to Hit Central U.S.
Louisiana Floods Worst Ever Recorded
“By early Monday, 72-hour rainfall totals showed that fully one-third of Louisiana had received more than one foot of rainfall (see map above). Local spikes within this huge swath have now exceeded two feet with total amounts as high as 30 inches reported.
As the heavy rains fell like never before, they pushed a historic flood of water down local rivers, many of which hit their highest levels ever recorded at various locations Sunday and Monday. As of Monday morning, the Amite River had crested six feet above the previous record high level at Magnolia and more than four feet above the all-time high at Denham Springs.”
https://robertscribbler.com/2016/08/15/for-louisiana-the-rains-of-climate-change-fall-hard-more-heavy-storms-expected-to-hit-central-us/
Disasters like Louisiana floods will worsen as planet warms, scientists warn
National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration to classify disaster as the eighth flood considered to be a once-in-every-500-years event in the US in a year
“The Louisiana flooding has been so exceptional that some places in the state experienced storm conditions considered once-every-1,000-year events. Close to 2ft of rain fell over a 48-hour period in parts of southern Louisiana, causing residents to scramble to safety from flooded homes and cars.”
“The National Weather Service balloon released in New Orleans on Friday showed near-record levels of atmospheric moisture, prompting the service to state: “We are in record territory.” Climate scientists have warned that the build-up of moisture in the atmosphere, driven by warming temperatures, is likely to cause a greater number of floods in the future.
“We have been on an upward trend in terms of heavy rainfall events over the past two decades, which is likely related to the amount of water vapor going up in the atmosphere,” said Dr Kenneth Kunkel, of the Cooperative Institute for Climate and Satellites.”
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/aug/16/louisiana-flooding-natural-disaster-weather-climate-change
Cloggie on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 5:27 pm
“Fuck, everytime it rains and there is even a minor flood in that part of the US the denier tards pull out the 1927 flood card.”
Strangly the forum Boa is frustrated that his business model is frustrated by… well…. facts.
Strangly mode of operation is that he positions himself behind the computer, opens a browser, finds a tab with google between all the porn and enters a search string like “global warming desaster” or “we are all fucked by climate change”, next looks for the most sensasionalist hit in the returned results and posts the content, so he can pimp himself as the great nostradamus of doomerism.
The last thing he can use is data that indicates that a particular event happened before industrialism really took off.
There is a tragicomic element in your aura, Strangly.
makati1 on Tue, 16th Aug 2016 6:34 pm
Looks like the American Dream is about to enter the 3rd world experience openly. 30″+ of rain in a few days is NOT a good thing anywhere. The hurricane season is being joined by the riot season and the drought season this year. Triple whammy.
The sheeple are being distracted by the election circus and the possibility of having a brain dead prez or a prez with unknown ideas and a huge ego. The economy, if there is one, is circling the drain and headed for the Greatest Depression ever. Yep, a great place to live. No me! lol