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Irv Mills: My Peak Oil Journey

General Ideas

For some time now I been intending to do a post about “My Peak Oil Journey”, describing how my understanding of Peak Oil has evolved over the years. I think it will fit nicely at this point in my series of autobiographical notes.

Throughout the history of this blog I’ve focused on three of the challenges we face: Climate Change, Peak Oil, and Economic Contraction.

I first became aware of climate change in the late 80s and had no trouble accepting its reality. I expected that nuclear fusion or possibly renewable power sources, especially solar, would take over from fossil fuels and solve the problem with ease. But things have not worked out quite so well.

Sometime in 2000 or 2001 I first heard of Peak Oil. Again, my initial reaction was that improved technology would solve the problem. But I was drawn back to the topic repeatedly and by the time I retired from Hydro One, I was convinced that this is not a problem we are going to solve. I retired with a very nice pension, but also a keen awareness that this pension was contingent on the continuing growth of the economy. And even that early on, my reading about Peak Oil made it pretty clear that continued economic growth was far from a sure thing.

My current understanding of the economy took much longer to come together, and is intimately intertwined with my understanding of Peak Oil.

In the early 2000s many people, myself included, had quite a naive understanding of how Peak Oil might play out. I think many of us thought of oil fields as big underground tanks, originally full of oil. In this view we’d be able to keep pumping oil out of the ground until one day it suddenly ran dry. We also thought that the demand for oil was quite inelastic and running out would cause a very serious disaster, quite possibly the collapse of industrial civilization.

There was a lot of speculation about the amount of oil that was actually left, and good reason to suspect that official estimates of oil reserves were artificially inflated. Both the privately owned oil companies and the OPEC countries had (and still have) much to gain from claiming that their reserves are larger than they are in reality. Some of the agencies estimating future oil use numbers based them solely on predicted demand, without considering the realities of the supply side at all.

Gradually, this way of thinking came around to a more realistic picture of porous rock formations saturated with oil and gas and capped with layers of impermeable rock. Drill through the cap rock and the oil (and gas) would start running out. With this more accurate picture came many inconvenient details which gradually, as events played out over the years, became more obvious.

The rate at which oil comes out of the ground is determined by the geology of each particular well, and is at a maximum when the well is new and declines as the well ages until eventually it is no longer profitable to operate the well, the costs of operation being higher than the small remaining production is worth. This happens before all of the oil is removed from the well. There are techniques such as water injection which can be used to increase the rate at which oil comes out of a well, but this may increase the decline rate so that the total production of the well is less in the end.

Discovery of new oil resources must make up for the decline of existing wells and allow for increased use of oil as the economy grows. For the last few decades this has not happened, and it appears to me that the production of “conventional” oil peaked around 2005. This was reflected in the increase in the price of oil from around $12 per barrel in late 90s to just over $140 per barrel in the summer of 2008. The price of oil goes up as demand exceeds supply or even if events make it seem that supply might soon be constrained. It seems that in the months leading up to the summer of 2008, both of those factors were involved in making the price of oil spike upwards.

Looking back on the effect of oil price on the economy, post 2008, it became clear that almost every recession since the 1950s had been preceded by a spike in the price of oil. It turns out that the demand for oil is not nearly so inelastic as some had imagined. When the price goes up we see what is known as “demand destruction”—economic growth slows and people find themselves short of cash, cutting back on discretionary spending and doing whatever they can to use less energy. If the price goes high enough, even conservation begins to look like attractive.

At the same time, the idea that there is no alternative to oil turns out to be a little too simplistic. As the price goes up, oil wells that have been shut down as unprofitable become profitable again. Alternative forms of oil, what is known as “non-conventional oil” (deep offshore oil, Arctic oil, fracked oil, heavy oil and bitumen from tar sands) which had previously been too expensive to bother with, also become economically feasible.

The demand for oil dropped off from 86.3 million barrels per day in 2007 to less than 84.5 in 2009, and the price dropped to just over $40 per barrel. As the economy recovered, non-conventional oil made up for the decline in production of conventional oil and total demand increased to over 99 million barrels per day in 2018. Higher prices 2010 to 2014 (peaking at over $100 per barrel in early 2014) no doubt drove developments in non-conventional oil, while at the same time slowing the recovery of the economy.

In that period (2008 to 2014) the idea of Peak Oil was alive and well. Lots of people were interested, there were numerous websites and books being published, and a variety of groups, (of which the Transition Town movement is probably best known) sprang up in an attempt to bring people together to prepare for what was coming.

And while overall global oil production kept growing, many oil exporting countries reached their production peaks. In a phenomenon described by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_Land_Model”The Export Land Model”, this happened even quicker than it might have otherwise. As most such countries were experiencing growth in their own economies and improvements in their standards of living, so their domestic consumption of oil was increasing, leaving even less to export than could be accounted for by natural decline, and putting their balance of payments in an ever worsening situation post peak.

In the Middle East climate change brought on increased temperatures and droughts, making agriculture less and less feasible. And this was at a time when money to import food and jobs for bankrupt farmers fleeing to the cities were both in short supply. There is no doubt in my mind that both climate change and peaking of oil exports were factors in the so called “Arab spring”. But changing governments does little to improve the situation when there are real, fundamental problems that even the best government would be hard pressed to cope with. In general, everywhere in the world, there is growing disillusionment with new governments, elected to deal with economic and social problems, who turn out to be just as inept as the old ones, and just as much in denial about what’s wrong.

It was sometime after 2008 when I put together the missing pieces in my understanding of economics.

The first thing was to realize that it’s not really about money.

Money is just a convenient set of tokens—a medium of exchange, a unit of account and a store of value. Of course, a whole “meta” level of business, the financial sector, is based on money. But it’s vital not to lose sight of the underlying realities.

The second thing was to understand role of growth in the economy.

Modern economies run on credit. Money is created by the banks as debt and those debts must be paid back with interest. The extra money for the interest comes from yet more loans. This works fine as long as the economy is growing and the banks have good confidence that debtors will continue to pay back their loans, with interest. If the economy stops growing, or even if its growth slows down very much, governments, businesses and individuals who have taken out loans find themselves unable to continue making their payments and are forced to default on their loans. Too many defaults and the banks themselves start failing. So it is vital that the economy continued to grow.

The third thing is the role of energy in the economy.

The reason that debtors can pay back loans is that they used the borrowed money to set up enterprises that create more value than the capital and labour that are put into them. This surplus value can be used to pay off loans, with interest, and leave something as well for the owners of the enterprise. Or in the case of large companies, pay dividends to the investors. Conventional economic theory is pretty vague about where this extra value comes from. But when I read up on “biophysical economics” it became clear to me that the extra value comes from the energy inputs to the process, because the energy costs substantially less than the value it enables us to create.

That Wikipedia article I linked to doesn’t mention the two sources where I learned about biophysical economics: Energy and the Wealth of Nations by Charles Hall and Kent Klitgaard, and Life After Growth by Tim Morgan. Morgan also has a website with up to date information.

Extra value (wealth) coming from surplus energy was true to a limited extent even in the past when energy came in the form of food and was converted in mechanical form by human or animal muscles. Things improved somewhat when we learned to harness the mechanical energy in moving air (wind) and falling water. But with the invention of engines that could convert the heat of burning fuel into mechanical energy, things really took off. These engines could drive automated factories which could produce goods with a fraction of the human labor previously required. This started with steam engines burning coal to pump water out of coal mines, replacing horse powered pumps. What followed was the industrial revolution.

The economy grew as it never had before, and as long as abundant cheap energy was available, it continued to grow.

Throughout the history of fossil fuel use, we’ve used the lowest hanging fruit first—the easiest to access and the highest quality fuels among those. With the result that as time passes, the remaining fuels are harder to access and/or of poorer quality. This leads us to concept of Energy Returned on Energy Invested (EROEI), and the related idea of surplus or net energy.

Taking a typical oil well from the early twentieth century, the energy equivalent of 1 barrel of oil would have been used to get 100 barrels of oil out of the well. This gives you an EROEI of 100, and surplus energy of 99 barrels of oil equivalent.

Looking at present day corn based ethanol, to produce 1.3 gallons, it takes the energy equivalent of 1 gallon of ethanol. This gives you an EROEI of 1.3 and surplus energy of .3 gallons of ethanol equivalent.

This can be helpful in choosing the sorts of energy we should be using—early twentieth century oil wells are something we can only dream of today and the corn ethanol business is hardly viable without large subsidies. But there is more to it than that, because surplus energy is what drives the economy and makes economic growth possible. If you look at all the energy sources a country uses and calculate a weighted average EROEI, it can tell you quite a lot about that country’s economy.

As that average EROEI declines toward about 15, economic growth grinds to a halt and it becomes difficult to raise capital to start new ventures and to maintain existing infrastructure. Below 15 a modern industrial civilization quits working. Because this is a weighted average, choosing to produce more energy from low EROEI sources makes things worse while temporarily seeming to make them better. It has been estimated that the current average EROEI of the world economy is around 11. Of course some lucky countries are doing much better than that.

But because of our “lowest hanging fruit first” approach, EROEI continues to decline. Real economic growth appears to have stopped in the 1990s, with governments using clever new ways of calculating gross domestic product, and unemployment and cost of living statistics to make things look better in the short run. And low interest rate policies to encourage lots of borrowing and keep the economy growing, again, in the short run.

By early 2014, oil prices had topped $100 per barrel and it looked to many of us like the economy might fall apart again as it had done in 2008.

But then oil prices started to fall, bottoming out below $40 per barrel. Why the slump happened is not well understood, but it had been predicted by a few (notably Nicole Foss of the Automatic Earth) as yet another step on the way to Peak Oil.

There was a glut in oil supply from 2014 to 2017. Several factors contributed to this.

The first, no doubt, was the increase in non-conventional oil production, particularly tight oil in continental US, accessed through the “hydro-fracturing” process, commonly referred to as “fracking”. Contrary to popular belief this was not enough supply all of America’s demand for crude oil. But it did add about 4 million barrels a day to US oil production.

All the hype about fracking as a new source of crude oil and natural gas caused some people to conclude that Peak Oil was dead, and that any shortage of oil was a very long way in the future. Even President Obama announced that there was enough tight oil to last 100 years. In fact, nothing could be further from the truth. In 2017, the United States produced an average of about 14.2 million barrels per day, and consumed about 19.8 million barrels per day, with the difference made up by imports, changes in petroleum inventories, and petroleum refinery processing gain.

No doubt fracking has significantly decreased the amount of oil the US has to import. But this is temporary—the decline rates of fracked wells are much higher than those of conventional wells and most of the sweet spots in the tight oil plays have already been used up. Realistically, America’s supply of tight oil will likely run out early in the 2020s.

But even if there was enough tight oil and gas to last 100 years, fracking is a classic case of trying to use a low EROEI energy source (somewhere between 3 and 5, in this case) to keep an economy going. You might expect that this oil would be more expensive than conventional oil, but as we learned in 2008, high energy prices cause recessions, which should lead to over-production and lower prices.

Parts of this happened—oil prices certainly went down. But oil consumption continued to grow, by about 1.7% per year. Strangely, it appears that this extra energy did not result in corresponding growth of the US economy. It is a bit of a puzzle where the energy went, until you realize that fracking is a very energy intensive process (the “energy invested” part of EROEI). Fracking itself is the “gas guzzler” that was causing the growth in US oil consumption. This is what I call “energy sprawl”, where the extensive infrastructure and energy use required to make low EROEI energy sources work begins to dominate the economy and the landscape.

OPEC was initially unwilling to cut back production to bring the price back up, but in late 2016 an agreement to cut production was signed by many OPEC producers and Russia as well. At the same time, many other non-OPEC producers were experiencing natural decline.

The price of oil bottomed out just under $40/barrel in early 2016, bounced around in the $40s and low $50s, and then in mid 2017 started to increase pretty much steadily, as the glut began to dwindle. Today the price is in the high $70s/barrel and has topped $80 in the past few weeks. The glut is over and the U.S. government has quietly asked Saudi Arabia and some other OPEC producers to increase oil production by about 1 million barrels a day to bring the price down to a more acceptable level.

OPEC economies were hurt badly by several years of low prices and one suspects they will be only too glad to increase production. The question is how long they will be able to do so before the natural decline rates of their oil fields catch up with them.

The major oil companies were hurt by low prices too, and cut back on their investment on discovery in order to save money. This has left us in a very bad situation as far as oil supply goes over the next few years. Trillions of dollars would have to be spent on discovery to catch up with demand. It seems to some of us that there is no sweet spot where oil prices are low enough to keep the economy growing and high enough to make the oil business profitable.

In any case, it seems unlikely that there are actually sufficient oil resources out there even if we could find the money to spend on discovery. Beyond natural supply decline and reduced spending on discovery, we are seeing geopolitics playing a role in Peak Oil as well. Major oil producers like Venezuela are facing sanctions and internal economic chaos. Their oil industry is suffering as a result and production is falling off. If President Trump gets his way, something similar will likely happen with Iran. An overall peak in production will likely occur sometime in the next few years.

How will the economy respond to this? Not well, to be sure, but the specific details will include some surprises that are very hard to anticipate.

That’s my “Peak Oil Journey”, to date at any rate. No doubt there is more to learn. We’re pretty good at explained what just happened, but not so good at predicting what’s coming next. It always seems to involve something we just haven’t considered yet.

While I was following the story of Peak Oil, my life carried on and I tried to prepare for the challenges that lay ahead. Eventually this lead to me starting this blog and calling myself a “Kollapsnik”. More on that next time.

theeasiestpersontofool



71 Comments on "Irv Mills: My Peak Oil Journey"

  1. JuanP on Fri, 15th Jun 2018 9:53 pm 

    Not a bad overview of the subject. The author claims to not understand the oil price cycle which is strange for someone who has learnt this much about Peak Oil. Prices went down because previous record high prices led to a production boom which created a surplus which leads to lower prices that cause a decline in investment that cause relative scarcity that leads to higher prices, then rinse and repeat, as Rock has explained here many, many times.

  2. Anonymous on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 2:40 am 

    Peak oil movement is in disarray. TOD shut down. ASPO shut down. Savinar moved to astrology counseling (literally).

    US oil production, each MARCH:

    2008: 5.2 MM bopd
    2018: 10.5 MM bopd

    https://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=pet&s=mcrfpus2&f=m

    When the saddest, oldest, most classic post Hubbert peak province (the US) grows like that, it should make you question peak oil.

  3. Cloggie on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 3:10 am 

    If it weren’t for JuanP, I would never have bothered to look into the case of Uruguay, arrogantly assuming that Europe would be #1 in renewable energy anyway.

    Actually it isn’t:

    https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2018/06/16/uruguay-the-forgotten-renewable-energy-champ/

    Electricity 95% and primary energy 55% renewable. There you go!

    And spare me that drivel that Uruguay is “the size of Chicago” and hence can’t be a model for the US (or Europe). The truth is that the US prefers to invest in a MIC murder machine, with which it tries to conquer the entire world ever since of 1933 (and majestically is going to fail at that.rofl) and backed by disgusting local “luminaries” such as millimind and meathead.

    The renewable energy transformation is perfectly doable, affordable and can be done rapidly… if you put yourself to it.

  4. Davy on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 4:48 am 

    Uruguay, is the size of a small city neder. You do the same hyping with Denmark and Norway. It is mostly hydropower we are talking about in Uruguay. I bet they have very little wind and solar. The place is a poor country and they can’t afford it. What happens when climate change strikes with a vengeance and droughts hit the place? Remember Venezuela when their hydro about gave out on them. This is a whole different gig. Your solar and wind penetration of primary energy in Europe is horrible compared to the cheerleading you do. Get a grip we are talking huge expensive changes needed including lifestyles and attitudes. Quit your false marketing cheerleading

  5. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 6:25 am 

    Davy “Uruguay, is the size of a small city neder. You do the same hyping with Denmark and Norway. It is mostly hydropower we are talking about in Uruguay. I bet they have very little wind and solar.”
    We have a lot of hydro, so much that we have been leasing about a third of our generating hydro capacity on long term leases to Argentina (this energy is not even counted towards our capacity, it is usually credited to Argentina, by mistake, because they have been the users for decades. Brazil wants to lease these turbines’ electrical capacity, too, should Argentina ever be unable or unwilling to pay for it. If we count that then we generate significantly more than 100% with renewables. We have very significant wind resources and we have top of the line windgens installed in the last couple of years. We have good solar radiation and we are right now building small, medium, and large solar parks. The goal is to install a lot more solar than we need and sell the excessive production to our neighbors (the long term contracts have already been signed). We also have two excellent locations to build pumped hydro storage, one of them at very low cost because the dam is already built, and we are in the process of installing the necessary pumps and pipes. The country started using pumped hydro storage last year and is constantly increasing its storage capacity.

    The truth is Uruguay is blessed with an over abundance of renewable energy resources, a lot more than the country could possibly ever need. In two or three years, as our solar parks keep growing we will be drought proof, something I never thought would happen until a couple of years ago.

    Choke on that, resentful exceptionalist. Now focus on your filthy shithole of Missouri and tell me what you’ve got! LOL!

  6. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 6:33 am 

    Uruguay also has an excellent electricity distribution network, much better than the American one, which is globally known to be deficient, decaying, and in serious need of upgrades and repairs. This allows as to distribute energy as needed within the country depending on how hard the wind is blowing, how much water we have on our dams, and how much the sun is shining. We also have the capacity to both import and export as much electricity as necessary from and to both Brazil and Argentina. The USA, and your Missouri backwaters, will never have anything comparable.

    You are talking out of your arsehole about shit you are completely ignorant about, proving once more you are an ignorant, arrogant, deluded, sorry excuse of a human being, exceptionalist! Choke on your envy, loser!

  7. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 6:43 am 

    This article is three years old. We were producing 95% of our electricity and 55% of our total energy from renewables. Our capacity has increased significantly since then because we are adding solar, wind, biomass, and biofuels as fast as we can.
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/dec/03/uruguay-makes-dramatic-shift-to-nearly-95-clean-energy

  8. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 6:45 am 

    We also heat our homes mostly with firewood.
    The data on this link is also old and the numbers have improved significantly since.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_Uruguay

  9. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 6:48 am 

    Davy, You are a frustrated, resentful, mentally ill, ignorant, arrogant, exceptionalist son of a fucking whore and a miserable excuse of a human being. I look forward to “moderating and neutering” your lies and abuses all day long, motherfucker!

  10. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 6:50 am 

    Cloggie, thanks for the data and link. I appreciate facts, reality, and the truth!

  11. Davy on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 6:59 am 

    I love when you talk dirty to me Juan. That means mission accomplished asshole. lol. Your country is insignificant at the level of conversation we were at. We are talking wind and solar not hydro. I could take a region in the US and do a similar comparison that would put your little backwater to shame. I am not sure why you asswipes always put down Missouri because I am not bragging about it. MO is not a bad place though. I am glad it is a drive though fly over place. What matters to me is my local. My local is a great place so who cares what you think. I am happy. I would sure rather be in the Ozarks than south florida where your dumbass is Juan. Good luck with that.

  12. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 7:03 am 

    Delusional lDavy “I love when you talk dirty to me Juan. That means mission accomplished asshole.”

    Only in your deluded, sick mind, exceptionalist! Whati it does prove is that you’ve been behaving in an immoral, abusive, dishonest way again and I corrected your resentful, lying, ignorant crap”

  13. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 7:05 am 

    Delusional Davy “I would sure rather be in the Ozarks than south florida where your dumbass is Juan.”

    Of course you would, Davy! We don’t have goats in Miami Beach. If you lived down here you would have to fuck yourself! LOL!

  14. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 7:07 am 

    Delusional Davy “I could take a region in the US and do a similar comparison that would put your little backwater to shame.”

    No, you couldn’t. That is nothing more than lies coming out of your filthy mouth. What does goat cum taste like, exceptionalist? LOL!

  15. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 7:09 am 

    Delusional Davy “MO is not a bad place though.”

    In your deluded mind maybe! Missouri is a world famous shithole, dumbfuck!

  16. print baby print on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 7:18 am 

    Excelent article

  17. Cloggie on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 7:31 am 

    “The USA, and your Missouri backwaters, will never have anything comparable.”

    https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2017/06/11/unconventional-pumped-hydro-storage/

  18. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 7:46 am 

    Great link, cloggie! Thanks! Your knowledge of renewable energy projects never ceases to amaze me! I have learnt much from you on the subject. Keep up the good work!

  19. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 7:52 am 

    Uruguay’s pumped hydro storage installations didn’t make that list. All three of them will have a capacity of 300-400MW

  20. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 10:14 am 

    Davy, Cloggie posted a link to a lit of pump storage sites that includes Taum Sauk. It seems that Missouri is not a complete backwater after all.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taum_Sauk_Hydroelectric_Power_Station

  21. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 10:20 am 

    ” It is mostly hydropower we are talking about in Uruguay. I bet they have very little wind and solar. ”

    Wind and solar are both intermittent, and require backup. Hydro electric is stand alone, and is as renewable as it gets.

  22. Davy on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 10:40 am 

    Greggie. Dah, the conversation is about wind and solar not hydro

  23. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 10:48 am 

    Davy,

    Duh, the conversation was about ‘renewable energy’.
    Go back and re-read the post from Cloogie that you attacked him over.

    Not the sharpest tool in the shed, now are you.

    Dumbass.

  24. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 10:51 am 

    Davy “Greggie. Dah, the conversation is about wind and solar not hydro”
    The conversation was about renewable energy, so quit lying, exceptionalist. Uruguay has the capacity to supply 35 of its electricity from its windgens, too, by the way. And we are only getting started with solar because we were waiting for the prices to go down because in Uruguay we have absolutely no energy subsidies. Since PV prices have fallen significantly we are now installing them left and right, too. We have significant biomass and biofuels potential, too.

  25. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 10:52 am 

    That is 35% generating capacity from the already installed wingens.

  26. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 10:54 am 

    Davy is simply a compulsive liar and bully. He is so mentally ill he can’t control himself! LOL!

  27. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 10:55 am 

    Juanp

    How old are you?

  28. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 11:05 am 

    Nanomind “Juanp
    How old are you?

    Assuming you meant to write “Juanp, how old are you?” but you couldn’t because you are a functionally illiterate fucktard, the obvious answer is older than you! LOL!

  29. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 11:07 am 

    “How old are you?”

    Old enough to be your father MM.

    Your generation’s general disrespect for it’s elders, and know it all sense of entitlement, is going to come back and bite you in the ass. And MM, it is the experience that the JaunPs of this world have that you will need for survival within your lifetime, not how to turn more hydrocarbons into environmentally destructive chemicals.

  30. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 11:11 am 

    Greg

    Mark Twain once suggested, experience can be overdone. The cat that sits on a hot stove will not again sit on a hot stove, but it likely won’t sit on a cold one, either..

  31. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 11:15 am 

    MM,

    It is up to you to figure out which experiences are worthy of your consideration.

    Your future depends on you making the correct choices.

    It’s a natural selection thingy.

  32. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 11:19 am 

    And yes MM,

    Suicide is always an option, but there isn’t exactly a lot of experience to draw from on that subject.

  33. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 11:20 am 

    Greg

    “A man who claims to know what is good for others is dangerous.”

    – Nisargadatta Maharaj

  34. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 11:44 am 

    Not only is experience the best educator, it is the only educator.

    Me.

  35. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 11:47 am 

    And MM,

    I don’t claim to know what is the best for you, but I do know that suicide isn’t the best choice for your livelihood.

  36. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 12:27 pm 

    Greg

    I don’t claim to know what is best for you, (proceeds to claim to know whats best for me)..

  37. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 12:51 pm 

    Nanomind, Telling you that suicide is NOT what is best for your livelihood is NOT the same as telling you what IS best for you. You are displaying your deficient reading comprehension skills once more. Fuck, you are a moron! LOL!

  38. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 2:06 pm 

    As my great grandfather always said Juan;

    You can lead cattle to water, but you can’t make them drink.

  39. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 2:39 pm 

    Greg

    Prepping is futile

    Myth: Well-prepared individuals, groups, and communities will survive our impending collapse and maintain healthy, fulfilling, and productive lives in its aftermath.

    Reality: Those who survive our collapse will be those who can obtain sufficient life sustaining essentials—especially clean water and food—on a continuous basis, both during and after collapse. Those who store large quantities of these essentials and those who attempt to produce food, either individually or in communities, will be easy targets for the vast majority who have neither the foresight to store nor the skills to produce. No matter how remote or secluded your sanctuary, somebody will know about it; and they will come to call when they become desperate; and they will be well armed and devoid of compassion. You can prepare for a last stand, but you cannot prepare for post-collapse survival. Post-collapse Life Will Be Preferable to Our Industrial Lifestyle Paradigm

    Myth: Industrialization has brought nothing but misery and degradation to the human race; our quality of life (and spiritual wellbeing) will improve substantially in a post-collapse world.

    Reality: The post-collapse lifestyle awaiting the few who survive will, under the best of circumstances, share many attributes with pre-Columbian America. Unfortunately, the realities associated with subsistence level existence bear little semblance to the Hollywood accounts. Those who anxiously await our post-collapse world will be disappointed, assuming they live to experience it. The fact that nobody is opting to jettison the amenities afforded by an industrialized way of life in favor of a hunter-gatherer lifestyle today should be sufficient proof that our future way of life is not something to be anticipated. Industrialism is not inherently “evil” or immoral; it is simply physically impossible going forward.

  40. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 3:32 pm 

    MM,

    “I don’t claim to know what is best for you, (proceeds to claim to know whats best for me)..”

    You stick with your plan, and I’ll stick with mine.

    Good luck to you dude, here’s hoping that you can make that first bullet count. Lot’s of people survive suicide attempts, it is isn’t usually pretty.

  41. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 3:39 pm 

    And it isn’t usually very pretty.

    Had to chase the damn meat out of the vegetable garden again. Should have the gates Installed in a couple more hours.

  42. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 3:57 pm 

    Greg

    Hey I found a picture of you..

    https://i.redd.it/ajn7buhd4e411.jpg

  43. GregT on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 4:15 pm 

    Do you honestly have no clue as to how stupid you continually make yourself look MM?

  44. Cloggie on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 4:52 pm 

    “Greg
    Hey I found a picture of you..”

    I look far more sinister:

    https://goo.gl/images/UtZnsv

    (the guy in the middle, the dude directly left is my best buddy, he has a phd in gas chamber design)

    http://www.unz.com/article/german-soldiers-of-world-war-ii/

    http://www.unz.com/tsaker/can-the-eu-become-a-partner-for-russia/

    “Russia needs to engage those countries, political parties and forces who advocate for what de Gaulle called “the Europe of fatherlands“… A prosperous Europe “from the Atlantic to the Urals” is still a possibility, but that will happen only when the current European Union and NATO are replaced by truly European institutions and the current European elites replaced by sovereignists… This will be a long struggle but the outcome is not in doubt.“

  45. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 4:57 pm 

    Greg

    It was just a joke..Relax..

    Clogg…would you please shut the fuck up about Russia..You are totally obsessed..We need to add obsessive compulsive disorder to your long list of mental illnesses..

  46. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 5:09 pm 

    The far right is organised and growing. Those Nazi salutes are serious

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jun/14/far-right-nazi-tommy-robinson-racist-movements-donald-trump

    The far right is a cult of economic and social losers.

  47. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 5:23 pm 

    MM “Clogg…would you please shut the fuck up about Russia..”
    Tsk, tsk, that was not nice, Imaginary neuron! Why the fuck would anyone do anything you tell them to? You are nothing, a nobody; you have absolutely no power, control, or authority over other people. You could learn to control yourself, but I don’t expect you to ever achieve that.

  48. JuanP on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 5:28 pm 

    Nanomind, I’ve noticed that you are making an effort to write better. If you master the full stop, your comments may just become semiliterate. The full stop takes one dot, not two or any other number. I will take partial credit for your improvement since I believe it is at least partly thanks to my criticism. There is still hope for you, Single Synapsis. That makes you better than Davy in that he is a completely hopeless case and getting worse with time.

  49. MASTERMIND on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 5:32 pm 

    United Methodist Church urges Sessions to halt migrant family separations

    http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/392601-methodist-church-hits-doj-over-immigration-policy

  50. Makati1 on Sat, 16th Jun 2018 5:35 pm 

    Perhaps that American “education” system is worse than I thought, if MM actually graduated from high school. He certainly has not proven, by his posts, that he went to college or is anywhere near the intelligence level he claims.

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