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Page added on June 13, 2020
Growth, Growth, Growth: What Will Happen?
Dear Dr. Dollar:
Infinite economic growth on a finite planet is impossible and ruinous. And yet the drumbeat goes on for growth, growth, growth. Surely it is true that the world is grossly overpopulated; it is projected to grow to nine billion by 2050. How will the current economy serve these billions? It won’t work, and it wouldn’t work even if there were no global climate change at all. —Daniel Warner, via email
Well, yes, growth of population and of production cannot go on forever. And, while the problem is broader than climate change, climate change has generated new attention to the issue.
At the same time, concern about this issue is not new. With the early economic expansion of the industrial revolution, in 1798 the English cleric and economist Thomas Malthus published An Essay on the Principle of Population as it Affects the Future Improvement of Society, in which he argued that food production could not keep up with the unchecked growth of population. The result would be periodic famines or plagues that would limit population growth and, Malthus’s principal concern, prevent the “perfectibility of the mass of mankind”:
… it appears, therefore, to be decisive against the possible existence of a society, all the members of which should live in ease, happiness, and comparative leisure; and feel no anxiety about providing the means of subsistence for themselves and families.
Consequently, if the premises are just, the argument is conclusive against the perfectibility of the mass of mankind.
Regardless of the possibility—and the meaning—of the “perfectibility of the mass of mankind,” Malthus was wrong about the possibilities for the huge expansion of both production and population. He never would have conceived of our current world with 7.8 billion people, let alone the global population of nine billion projected for mid-century.
I bring up Malthus, whose argument has been repeated many times over the last 220 years, not because I want to debunk the problem of population growth or the devastation that economic growth is inflicting on our planet. Rather, the reference to Malthus leads us to look beyond the obvious (growth cannot go on forever) and include a more complex examination of what is going on and what can be done to improve the situation. The problem, it turns out, is not simply growth, growth, growth, but also the nature of growth.
While economic growth of any sort cannot go on forever on a finite planet, the actual nature of growth over the past 200-plus years has been particularly problematic. Three aspects of that growth are especially significant: its dependence on fossil fuels, the high degree of inequality that growth has continually generated, and the ability of producers to “externalize” the environmental costs of their activities.
The Fossil-Fuel Basis of Economic Growth
While economic activity has long been based on energy from fossil fuels, and this reliance on fossil fuels grew along with the industrial revolution, the increased use of fossil fuels exploded in the last several decades. Between 1950 and 2017, the world’s use of fossil fuels (coal, crude oil, and natural gas, measured in terawatt hours of energy) increase six-and-a-half fold. During this period, world output (inflation-adjusted Gross Domestic Product) rose roughly twelvefold. (Later on in this article I will return to the falling intensity of fossil fuel use.)
The great increase in the emission of carbon dioxide from the burning of fossil fuels has been the principal (though not the only) cause of climate change. And in addition to climate change, the pollution from the burning of fossil fuels creates major health problems, generating costs of nearly $200 billion annually in the United States, to say nothing of human suffering and deaths throughout the world.
Increasingly, alternatives to fossil fuels are emerging and are cost-competitive—particularly solar and wind energy. (See Ask Dr. Dollar, Is a Rapid Green-Energy Switch Prohibitively Costly?, D&S, March/April 2020.) These innovations will not eliminate the problems associated with economic growth, but they do portend a different basis for economic growth that could be much less damaging to the planet and the people who inhabit it.
But this shift is not happening fast enough, as the recent spate of severe hurricanes, huge wildfires, and the rising sea level demonstrates. While there are technical problems in a full transition to green energy, the main problems are political: the continuation of large subsidies to fossil fuel companies, the failure of government authorities to require that fossil fuel prices include social costs, and the limits—including actual rollbacks in the United States—of regulations requiring greater fuel efficiency in automobiles.
Economic Inequality and the Environment
It is well established that economic inequality contributes to the damage of the natural environment. As the economist James Boyce has pointed out:
Those who are relatively powerful and wealthy typically gain disproportionate benefits from the economic activities that degrade the environment [e.g., oil company executives and stockholders], while those who are relatively powerless and poor typically bear disproportionate costs. All else equal, wider political and economic inequalities tend to result in higher levels of environ-mental harm.
It could be added that the wealthy, to a large extent, are able to avoid the negative impacts of environmental degradation—for example, by living in cleaner communities, away from the toxin-generating factories and refineries that they own.
Also, the impact of inequality on what people see as their needs is pervasive. Modern economists have built their analyses on the premise that there is no limit to human wants. More is better, and economic growth will be driven indefinitely by people’s striving for greater income to provide for greater consumption.
But things aren’t so simple. It is more accurate to see human wants as being created by society, by what people see that others have. With great inequality, people at all levels are driven to strive to gain what others have—and to keep from sliding down the very steep income ladder.
Classical economists, unlike their modern-day descendants, recognized the social bases of people’s wants. For example, in his 1776 classic, The Wealth of Nations, Adam Smith writes:
… in the present times, through the greater part of Europe, a creditable day-labourer would be ashamed to appear in public without a linen shirt, the want of which would be supposed to denote that disgraceful degree of poverty which, it is presumed, nobody can well fall into without extreme bad conduct.
It is not the linen shirt per se that is the need; the need is the capability to appear in public without shame. Karl Marx expresses the same basic idea in his 1847 essay, Wage Labor and Capital. Discussing how people determine their economic well-being, he writes:
A house may be large or small; as long as the surrounding houses are equally small it satisfies all social demands for a dwelling. But if a palace arises beside the little house, the little house shrinks into a hut. … Our needs and enjoyments spring from society; we measure them, therefore, by society and not by the objects of their satisfaction. Because they are of a social nature, they are of a relative nature. In the modern era, the economist Richard Easterlin has developed the argument that:
Economic growth in itself does not raise happiness. Evidence for a wide range of developed, transition, and developing countries consistently shows that higher growth rates are not accompanied by greater increments in happiness.
Easterlin has supported his argument with data from a wide range of countries, highly developed (e.g., the United States and the wealthier countries of Europe) and less developed (e.g., Mexico, Turkey, and China).
“Happiness” is hard to both define and measure, of course, and Easterlin’s analysis has been disputed. Nonetheless, it is well established that a high degree of inequality within a country is associated with a high degree of stress at all levels. Stress and happiness would seem to be inversely related. And, data suggest that happiness seems to be connected more with relative economic equality than with a country’s higher level of average income. For example, the World Happiness Report for 2019 (from the Center for Sustainable Development at the Earth Institute of Columbia University) ranked Finland as number one on its happiness index, while the United States ranked 19th. Per capita income in the United States is 30% higher than in Finland, but economic inequality in Finland is much less than in the United States. (The World Bank reports Gini coefficients, a common measure of a country’s inequality ranging theoretically from zero, perfect equality, to one, all income going to one person. For almost all countries, the Gini coefficient is between 0.25 and 0.65. For Finland and the United States, the Bank reports coefficients, respectively, of 0.274 and 0.414.)
At least in relatively high-income countries, it seems likely that economic inequality and the insecurity that accompanies it are stronger drivers of consumerism and the sense of a need for growth, growth, growth. Higher taxes on the wealth and income of the affluent, along with several other social policies (See “Are Taxes the Best Way of Dealing with Inequality?” D&S, November/December 2019) could, then, dampen the drive for economic expansion. Indeed, greater economic equality is probably a necessary condition for creating a sustainable economy.
“Externalizing” Environmental Costs
When I was growing up in Portland, Ore., during the 1950s, our family often drove across the Columbia River to Washington and into the wilderness northeast of Portland. While the wilderness had many attractions, my clearest memory of those trips is the stench from the paper mill in Camas, Wash. The mill’s air pollution, I am pretty sure, was only its most obvious impact on the environment, as I believe its waste was also dumped into the Columbia River.
The Camas paper mill is only a small example of a much larger phenomenon, and more well-known examples include the tragedy at Love Canal and the devastation at some 40,000 Superfund clean-up sites around the country. The largest expression of this phenomenon is the discharge of greenhouse gases from the burning of fossil fuels.
When economic activity generates pollutants—from toxic waste to noxious odors and noise—those engaged in that activity will profit by placing those pollutants on society outside their operations. They usually could to otherwise—cleaning up the waste, filtering out the odors, blocking the noise—but this would impose costs. They could internalize those costs, but this would reduce profits. So they externalize the costs, imposing them on society at large.
Of course, regulations can force, and have forced, polluters to internalize costs. Due to many factors, the paper mill at Camas has dwindled to a fraction of its 1950s size, but one of those factors has been the increased cost of reducing its pollution as a result of regulation. Over recent decades, in the United States we have attained cleaner air and cleaner water as a result of these regulations. Businesses have, however, achieved many successes in limiting the extent of environmental regulations and getting the public to bear the cost of pollution controls. For example, at Camas, the Washington legislature provided tax exemption incentives for the installation of pollution control equipment. In recent years, the Trump administration has striven to reduce environmental protections in a wide range of activities. The most recent example is the administration’s effort to eviscerate fuel efficiency requirements for automobiles.
Yet, the Trump administration aside, the development of effective, enforced regulation of pollution has been a slow and limited process. Firms continue to externalize much of the costs of their activity. Meaningful regulation might slow economic growth, but it would make economic growth less damaging.
No Growth?
Although the cessation of economic growth might have desirable consequences, there is no way that “no growth” could be accomplished in the foreseeable future. Also, it would likely have some quite negative consequences unless it was accomplished by a massive economic redistribution (which is itself hardly likely in the foreseeable future). For example, because of the economic insecurity that generally accompanies great inequality, efforts to stop environmentally destructive activity have sometimes been opposed by workers and their unions because they need to maintain their employment. One reply by workers to regulations that would limit global warming has been statements to the effect of: “They’re worried about what will happen in 2050 and beyond. We’re worried about putting food on the table next week.”
Deniers of the dangers of unlimited growth argue that the market will take care of the problem. There are, in fact, some market phenomena, consequences of economic growth, that contribute to reducing the rate of increase of its negative impacts. As noted above, the intensity of fossil fuel use—that is, the decline in fossil fuel use per unit of output—has declined over time. This is probably due, first, to increased efficiency in the use of fossil fuels, which in some instances is a result of regulation (as with automobiles). More generally, firms find ways to reduce their costs by finding more efficient ways of using energy. Second, as economies grow, they shift toward greater service activity and proportionally less reliance on manufacturing—with the former generally less energy intensive. Yet, at best, all these changes do is reduce the rate of increase of environmental damage relative to what it otherwise would have been.
It seems clear that an economy run on the basis of the unfettered seeking of profits will be incapable of sufficiently limiting the negative environmental destruction that comes with growth. The “external” impacts of market activity cannot be altered without some forms of government intervention. At times, that intervention can take the form of taxes—for example, by raising the price of fossil fuels, which will reduce their use. But direct regulation is widely needed to prevent damaging processes from taking place. Certainly, very substantial regulation will be needed to dramatically reduce reliance on fossil fuels and forestall severe global climate change.
It also seems clear that little can be accomplished without the significant reduction of economic inequality. Economic inequality not only generates the push for economic growth. In addition, the concentration of political power, which is the necessary concomitant of economic inequality, will prevent the needed changes.
Update: COVID-19 and Economic Growth
This article on “Growth, Growth, Growth,” was conceived well before the COVID-19 crisis dominated our lives, and it was mostly written as the crisis began to unfold. Commentators are fond of saying such things as, “This virus changes everything.” Yet, had the virus exploded on us earlier, the basic points of this article would not have been any different.
The issues that are addressed here—fossil fuel-based growth, economic inequality, and firms’ externalization of pollutants—will remain important issues after the COVID-19 crisis starts to fade from our daily lives. The need for change has not been altered by the crisis. Yet, the experience of the COVID-19 pandemic has created some possibilities for progressive change. As a commentator in the New York Times stated in early May, we have been experiencing “a pandemic that is exposing nearly every systematic flaw in society.” Exposing systemic flaws—and they have been dramatically exposed in recent months—can be an important step forward. Consider: On April 22, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported on a study of the racial and ethnic makeup of those with COVID-19 at several hospitals. In the communities surrounding the hospitals, African Americans were 18% of the population, but they were 33% of those hospitalized. And on May 3, a story in the New York Times Magazine cited data from sites across the country showing the disparate impact of COVID-19 on African Americans. For example: “In Mississippi, black people are 38% of the population but 61% of the deaths … [and in] New York, which has the country’s highest numbers of confirmed cases and deaths, black people are twice as likely to die as white people.” During the COVID-19 shutdown, CNN reported that people living in the cities and towns of Northern India 100 miles from the Himalayas have been able to see the mountains for the first time in decades. In New York City, according to a study released by IQAir on April 22, PM-2.5 (particulate matter with a diameter of less than 2.5 micrometers) was down by 29% as compared to the average of the preceding four years (2.5 micrometers is about 3% of the diameter of a human hair). The study reports similar, though varying, change in nine other cities around the world. While the poor response to COVID-19 in the United States can be partially attributed to the failures of the Trump administration, the weakness of the U.S. public health system is not new, and U.S. medicine has long been subordinated to the focus on profits rather than health. Just one example, provided by a story in The New Yorker of May 4. One doctor complained: “Why are nearly all the notes in Epic [the electronic medical record system] … basically *useless* to understand what’s happening to a patient?” A colleague replied: “Because notes are used to bill, determine level of service, and document it rather than their intended purpose, which was to convey our observations, assessment, and plan. Our important work has been co-opted by billing.” These examples could be buttressed by numerous others, from the racial and class makeup of those who have lost their jobs in the crisis to the dramatic resource differences between hospitals that serve a low-income clientele and those that serve a high-income clientele. All of these phenomena are exposing the “systemic flaws” in our society. These flaws were evident before we heard of COVID-19, but the COVID-19 crisis has brought them dramatically to the fore. Perhaps the experience of the crisis can help generate the action and organizing that will lead to change. —AM
86 Comments on "Growth, Growth, Growth: What Will Happen?"
Sissyfuss on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 8:43 am
Rising fossil fuel use corresponds with rising population. There are no present day substitutes that can replace the dense energy of fossil fuels. That means that population reduction is concomitant with reducing our energy availability. Degrowth is here and the current world chaos is proof of that.
DT on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 10:27 am
“While there are technical problems in a full transition to green energy, the main problems are political” I stopped reading this article after I read this deceptive statement.
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 11:01 am
Mindless juanPee socks
DT said “While there are technical problems in a ful…
SocialRevolutionComing said https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2020/06/13/13/29564
BIG Troll ZERO Brains
Cloggie on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 11:10 am
““While there are technical problems in a full transition to green energy, the main problems are political” I stopped reading this article after I read this deceptive statement.”
The statement is true.
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2020/06/13/most-efficient-way-to-use-electricity-in-mobility/
“Most Efficient Way to Use Electricity in Mobility”
In North-America, the majority thinks like DT, very much unlike in Eurasia.
Whatever. The time that “everything happened in North-America first”, is long gone”.
Mindless widdle Davy the Pink Poodle sock on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 11:29 am
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 11:01 am
JuanP mindless ID theft on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 12:19 pm
JuanP the Lunatic on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 11:10 am
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 1:07 pm
Mindless juanPee shit:
JuanP mindless ID theft said JuanP the Lunatic on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 11:10 am
The Board said On the matter of The Board voting to Ban the lunat…
More midless lunatic shit from daVee said zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 9:55 am
Mindless widdle Davy the Pink Poodle sock said zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 11:01 am
ZOMFG you guyes COVID-19 is code name for operation CONVICT-19 you guyes i know some wrong when a pretty little white girl ran to a black man arms dead giveaway dead giveaway said sry u guyes if my typing bad im busy checking my s…
BIG Troll ZERO Brains
More Mindless Lunatic Davy JuanP Derangement on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 2:36 pm
JuanP mindless ID theft on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 12:19 pm
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 1:07 pm
FamousDrScanlon on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 3:38 pm
Coronavirus updates: In Palm Beach County, cases rise to 8,442 with 438 deaths; in Florida, a record 2,581 new cases drives the total to 73,552, with 3,016 deaths.
https://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/20200613/state-sets-third-straight-record-for-coronavirus-cases-topping-2500-in-one-day
2nd wave means wave goodbye to reopening dreams.
FamousDrScanlon on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 3:40 pm
Dallas County again sets record for new COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations
https://www.fox4news.com/news/dallas-county-again-sets-record-for-new-covid-19-cases-hospitalizations
FamousDrScanlon on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 3:47 pm
N.J. coronavirus deaths increase to 12,589, with 166,605 total cases. State death toll now surpasses WWII losses.
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/06/nj-coronavirus-deaths-increase-to-12589-with-166605-total-cases-state-death-toll-now-surpasses-wwii-losses.html
I love how they are comparing statistics that have no connection to each other whatsoever (apples to oranges) EXACTLY like the Covidiots and their billionaire and think tank backers have been doing since day 1. Cheap rhetorical tricks go both ways eh?
Abraham van Helsing on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 3:51 pm
Corona here to stay: new outbreak in Beijing
https://www.spiegel.de/panorama/gesellschaft/coronavirus-erneuter-ausbruch-in-peking-quelle-auf-dem-fleischmarkt-a-eef15ace-1fba-44bf-b89a-75c87addfafa
End of globalism, end of flying. American companies can produce their own hammer and nails for Walmart.
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 3:52 pm
Mindless juanPee socks:
FamousDrScanlon said Dallas County again sets record for new COVID-19 c…
FamousDrScanlon said Coronavirus updates: In Palm Beach County, cases r…
FamousDrScanlon said All you right-wing reactionaries are pitiful loser…
The Board said Hear that everyone? We are voting to give davyskum…
bola tangkas said Hmm it seems like your site ate my first comment (…
More Lunatic Davy JuanP Derangement and ID Fraud said JuanP on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 1:09 pm FOOL on Sat,…
More Mindless Lunatic Davy JuanP Derangement said JuanP mindless ID theft on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 12:1…
BIG Troll ZERO Brain
FamousDrScanlon on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 4:20 pm
Why the DeVos family’s backing of the Michigan protests is no surprise
This article is more than 1 month old
The Trump-supporting education secretary and her billionaire family have for years promoted rightwing causes and candidates
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/26/devos-family-michigan-protest-rightwing-donors
Apparently, George Soro’s & Bill Gates are not the only conflict of interest meddling, agenda pushing billionaires out there.
You know what they have in common? They don’t care about the truth. They don’t care about the country. They don’t care about the public and they certainly don’t give two fucks about you and yours – y’all disposable.
Amazingly, all they need to do us mutter a few sub-tribal slogans (virtue signaling) at the masses of true believers of whatever sub-tribe they are pretending to be apart of to get them sign up as cannon fodder in the ongoing cultural war. Yup, it’s that easy.
Of course these billionaire oligarchs along with the rest of the uber wealthy do not believe in any ideology – just power.
Left-right are all useful idiots. Perhaps 40-50 years ago one could have made a halfway decent argument for their politics. Not now.
Abraham van Helsing on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 5:15 pm
“Left-right are all useful idiots.“
Exactly, for Eurasian interests.
Good-bye, America!
https://www.amazon.com/Adios-America-Lefts-Country-Hellhole/dp/162157606X/ref=sr_1_1
https://www.amazon.com/End-American-Era-Geopolitics-Twenty-first/dp/0375412158/ref=sr_1_1
makati1 on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 5:30 pm
The pro-growth dreamers wish for miracles, like fusion or even dilithium crystals (See Star Trek). The realists are prepped or prepping for the contraction now happening in the West and somewhat in the East. The speed of contraction is the problem now. Covid-19 made a giant leap in that direction and per-covid times will never return.
The world is in a Depression, and not the weather kind. The economic/financial kind. Some countries will come out of it not much worse for the experience, like the Philippines, but others will be in a world of hurt, like the US, which has to print faux dollars by the trillions to pay the bills and keep the tax donkeys peaceful.
Wait and see. A new world is ahead, unlike anything anyone living today has ever experienced.
BTW: A sign o the future. I wanted to order a book thru Amazon as before, but decided that the shipping was too much. Previous, the shipping cost was about equal to the book cost. Now it is at least double. Hmm.
More Mindless Lunatic Davy JuanP Derangement on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 6:29 pm
zero juan (AKA Widdle Davy the Pink Poodle) on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 3:52 pm
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 6:34 pm
juanPee mindless daily activity. The fuck must hang out all day in his condo doing nothing.
More Mindless Lunatic Davy JuanP Derangement said zero juan (AKA Widdle Davy the Pink Poodle) on Sat…
SocialRevolutionComing said I was thinking about how the COVID hoax has failed…
FamousDrScanlon said Why the DeVos family’s backing of the Michi…
Abraham van Helsing said The return of natural gas to Germany: https://www….
zero juan said Mindless juanPee socks: FamousDrScanlon said Dalla…
FamousDrScanlon said N.J. coronavirus deaths increase to 12,589, with 1…
FamousDrScanlon said Dallas County again sets record for new COVID-19 c…
FamousDrScanlon said Coronavirus updates: In Palm Beach County, cases r…
FamousDrScanlon said All you right-wing reactionaries are pitiful loser…
The Board said Hear that everyone? We are voting to give davyskum…
bola tangkas said Hmm it seems like your site ate my first comment (…
More Lunatic Davy JuanP Derangement and ID Fraud said JuanP on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 1:09 pm FOOL on Sat,..
BIG Troll ZERO Brains.
More Davyskum sock puppetry ID theft and lunacy on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 6:58 pm
daveeee mindless daily activity. The fuck must hang out all day in his cabin doing nothing.
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 3:52 pm
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 1:07 pm
JuanP mindless ID theft on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 12:19 pm
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 11:01 am
FOOL on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 1:14 pm
JuanP on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 1:09 pm
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 6:44 am
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 5:28 am
From the moderated side on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 7:00 pm
China is finished… This is the End of China
Preview: Re: China is finished… This is the End of China
JuanP wrote:
jedrider wrote:
I am very anti China when I hear how they still promote the animal trade. Almost the same feeling I have when I hear of Japan’s whale trade. What does the USA do that is similar? Drill for oil in the Arctic, I guess. They’re all the same. Money grubbing, ecocidal empires. Nothing new.
JuanP wrote:
I can relate to that 100%. I am very, very, very anti humanity when I see what we have done to this planet.
REAL Green wrote:
Yet, you live in Miami Beach one of the most destructive urban areas in the world. If you cared about Nature you would not be living there!
JuanP wrote:
We are the most aggressive, violent, and destructive animal species that has ever existed on this planet. Once I understood this, I refrained from producing biological offspring and sterilized myself. That was the smartest thing I did in my life. Bringing a child to this world at this point in time is completely insane.
REAL Green wrote:
Humanity thanks you JuanP. The world does not need more people who live like you do.
Abraham van Helsing on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 7:04 pm
Nazis: the gift that keeps giving
https://theworstofperth.com/2009/12/24/hitler-the-gift-that-keeps-giving/
More Mindless Lunatic Davy JuanP Derangement on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 7:25 pm
zero juan on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 6:34 pm
From the moderated side on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 7:00 pm
REAL Green on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 8:04 pm
JuanP had us on ignore fer years Davy. Are stupidity is not worth listenin to. Maybe we should ignore JuanP too? Wadda ya say champ?
ZOMG CONVICT-19 is muzzielove psyop you guyes on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 8:06 pm
“They gathered us and said they wanted to deliver religious sermon to us. They asked us to submit whatever arm we had. Some villagers gave up their … guns, bow, and arrows. Suddenly, they started shooting at will.”
In these regular incidents of jihadist attacks in Africa, black lives don’t matter.
s on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 8:11 pm
JuanP on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 8:29 pm
Injustice scrolled down this comments thread and I am amazed at what a lunatic the Missouri failed abortion has become. Only in the USA would they let someone like that walk outside without supervision.
Anonymouse on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 8:51 pm
I dont know about the walking outside part. Doing something like that, would take time away from his non-stop stalking, pricking, and ID theft here on PO.com. If he went outside and actually shuffled around his fantasy dumpstead, even for a short walk, he could miss an opportunity to make a fake post under your name. Or, he could lose an opportunity butt into a conversation that is none of business so he can harass, shoot off his yap, and generally make an amerikan of himself.
So no, they dont have to worry about the exceptionalturd wandering around since he is completely focused on this place, every walking minute of his miserable existence.
Bad for PO.Com? Bad for any animals still alive on his dumpstead ‘farm’? Sure it is. Good for any humans that happen to live in Dent Co. Missery though.
Abraham van Helsing on Sat, 13th Jun 2020 8:52 pm
For some reason I suspect umpire dave will not write that much anymore in this free-style part of the board. His world has been broken apart by recent events and the confessions of his hero Richard Heinberg.
Davy on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 4:41 am
“For some reason I suspect umpire dave will not write that much anymore in this free-style part of the board. His world has been broken apart by recent events and the confessions of his hero Richard Heinberg.”
LMFAO, “free-style’? come on clogo, this part of the forum has been reduced down to lunatics, racist, and Anglo derangement. If I am here it is because I enjoy moderating this stuff. BTW, you should come over to the moderated side cloggo. We could use your renewable input. Your techno optimism is OK to debate. Your Natzi racism shit won’t fly. Your Anglo derangement might fly if you keep it respectful. If zero juan can do it you can.
Davy on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 4:48 am
“Bad for PO.Com? Bad for any animals still alive on his dumpstead ‘farm’? Sure it is. Good for any humans that happen to live in Dent Co. Missery though.”
Annoy, is stuck in his stalking obsession. He is fully triggered and can’t break the cycle of obsession. I love how you and zero juan are consumed with your hate for me, annoy. It is very satisfying to know two skumbags have me strangling their miserable mental lives. OH, annoy, I invited cloggo over to the moderated side, but that invitation does not include you. You are not intelligent enough to contribute over there. Your one trick pony, fusion is all you got and that gets old. You repeat that shit over and over. The rest of what you have to say is Davy derangement and that won’t fly over there. You will be banned.
Davy on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 4:50 am
“Injustice scrolled down this comments thread and I am amazed at what a lunatic the Missouri failed abortion has become. Only in the USA would they let someone like that walk outside without supervision.”
excellent zero juan, please maintain these feelings. They show just how beaten you are. You can’t get one sock in without being outed and all your juanPee comments are moderated. Your comment shows little more than a wounded animal whimpering
Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 4:54 am
I don’t like being moderated. On the (“Pro-America, pro-Israel”) AfD-forum I’m regularly being put in moderation, even if I try to be diplomatic, although less frequently so in the past two weeks, as these slow-lane types are beginning to see I could be right with the US-empire being over. Most are pro-Dexit there (even if the leadership of the AfD is against it) and see Farage as a “buddy” (the idiots), but I get away with promoting a “right-wing EU” and PBM and with promoting the recapture of Constantinople-West with an EU-army to really close EU-borders and St. Nazaire as a new base for EU-nuclear U-boats (das Boot).
I’m getting more upbeat geopolitically with every passing day.
Davy on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 4:59 am
“I don’t like being moderated.”
cloggo, there are a lot of renewable energy comments over there that are worth your time. You can say what you want over here and bop over there when you see something of interest. They consider this side the side of insanity and there is no interest in it from the guys that moderates. Come on we need some new blood.
Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:08 am
I know America is full with types who consider renewable energy as “too dense” or that “renewable energy can’t exist without fossil fuel”. My time is too valuable to educate morons. In eight years of being here the only interesting guys on energy level were/are the rockman (oil) and Antius. The rest is simply completely uninteresting. America is about finance, not engineering and completely stuck and in love with fossil fuel. The fact that Europe has none is a blessing in disguise.
Abraham van Helsing on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:08 am
“too dense” should be “not dense enough”.
Davy on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:29 am
And yet your Europe is falling behind, cloggo. I can understand why you may be hesitant about explaining this stalling effort. It is like everything else you blabber about there is a disconnect between realty and fantasy. It might be you are here 20/7. You are still better than the lunatic juanPee. I can actually debate your stuff.
Cloggie on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 6:12 am
It isn’t stalling at all. Germany just announced a massive hydrogen initiative. They have to as their renewable electricity is above 50%, where you need to worry about storage at 40%. The most pressing issue is now storage, not more turbines and panels.
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2020/06/12/germany-embraces-the-hydrogen-economy/
Cloggie on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 6:39 am
Free of EU shackles at last, but leaving the white world comes at a high price!
“Fears over flood of US toxic chemicals: Trade deal could expose British consumers to 70 potentially harmful chemicals that are used on US farms but banned in UK, experts warn”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418541/Fears-flood-toxic-chemicals-trade-deal.html
“Big US producers make food the way Henry Ford made cars – cheap and fast: TV presenter JIMMY DOHERTY says Britain’s farms will either lower standards to compete or go bust”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418529/TV-presenter-JIMMY-DOHERTY-says-Britains-farms-lower-standards-compete-bust.html
“International Trade Secretary Liz Truss faces challenge to eat a ‘set menu’ of the ‘Frankenfood’ she wants to bring to Britain under the terms of a US trade deal”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418493/International-Trade-Secretary-Liz-Truss-faces-challenge-eat-set-menu-Frankenfood.html
“Nearly one million people support the Mail on Sunday’s campaign to keep controversial US food products off our supermarket shelves”
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8418523/Nearly-one-million-people-support-Mail-Sundays-campaign-controversial-food.html
And this is the world you just left, never to return to:
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2020/05/28/the-brussels-effect/
Davy on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 12:05 pm
Come on nedernazi. This side of the board is for lunatics only. That’s why we never made any comments hear. We dare you to come over to the real smart side of the board that i’m On. So We can debate you like the Widdle pink poodle we are.
fuckwak
JuanP on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:17 pm
Delusional Davy “You can’t get one sock in without being outed and all your juanPee comments are moderated.”
Ihave never used a sock puppet in my life, lunatic! You are the saddest fuck I’ve come across in my whole life! LOL!
Duncan Idaho on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:22 pm
Police in Norway Haven’t Killed Anyone in Nearly 10 Years
https://www.newsweek.com/police-norway-havent-killed-anyone-nearly-10-years-359074
But, it is a rich first world country.
Anonymouse on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:34 pm
LoL, so dumbass still believes he is some sort of self-styled ‘moderator’? I thought we cure you of that one too dumbass, but, apparently you are still clinging to it. It would be funny, it wasn’t so…… delusional.
As for being a ‘moderator’ and ‘moderating’ (anyone).
You are’nt, and you have’nt.
CONVICT-19 on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:37 pm
Anonymouse
suetard pls respect supertard president saint
joe on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:45 pm
Duncan Idaho on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:22 pm
FAKE NEWS
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_by_law_enforcement_officers_by_country
answer is 1, 2016
joe on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:50 pm
They make heros of the cops who shot back at Anders Brevik just once. His killing spree of dozens of leftist kids trapped on an island will go down in history.
Why was he able to do so much murder? Cause he had a rifle and could shoot and the pussy cops shot back just once.
zero juan on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:23 pm
an afternoon with the lunatic
CONVICT-19 said Anonymouse suetard pls respect supertard president…
More Lunatic Davy JuanP Derangement and ID Fraud said CONVICT-19 on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 2:21 pm
CONVICT-19 said srry i spelled my handle rong
COVICT-19 said joe on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 2:15 pm Talk about mani…
FamousDrScanlon said Testament to Murder: The Violent Far-Right’s Incre…
CONVICT-19 said if i’m whwitey supertard president trump i w…
FamousDrScanlon said Revealed: Black hero who rescued white man from at…
FamousDrScanlon said London protests live: Six police officers injured…
FamousDrScanlon said “Democrats are the parry of rioters looters…
BIG Troll ZERO Brains
double dumbass on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:25 pm
two low IQ stalkers triggered by moderation:
JuanP on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:17 pm
Delusional Davy “You can’t get one sock in without being outed and all your juanPee comments are moderated.”
Ihave never used a sock puppet in my life, lunatic! You are the saddest fuck I’ve come across in my whole life! LOL!
Anonymouse on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 3:34 pm
LoL, so dumbass still believes he is some sort of self-styled ‘moderator’? I thought we cure you of that one too dumbass, but, apparently you are still clinging to it. It would be funny, it wasn’t so…… delusional.
As for being a ‘moderator’ and ‘moderating’ (anyone).
You are’nt, and you have’nt.
The Liar on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:30 pm
Lunatic does not have a bug out place in his failed South America. The Lunatic is just in his delusional world of lies. Ask dumb fuck about his Yoga training days. LMFAO. What a freak! He is one lie after another. Deport the mother fucker:
https://peakoil.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1451951#p1451951
Re: Global Warming / Climate Changes Pt. 22
by JuanP » Sun 14 Jun 2020, 14:55:23
Tanada, While I was not aware of the CO2 ppmv step changes, I have been considering the differences between the Northern and Southern Hemispheres regarding GW and CC for around three decades. I decided to buy land in Uruguay, my native country, several years ago to build my bug out shelter there. This was not an easy choice for me because I never want to live in Uruguay again, but I did it for my wife and her nephews. There is no doubt in my mind that most of the ice in Antarctica will last much longer than most of the ice in the Arctic. I believe this will make the Southern Hemisphere a better place to live in than the Northern one for some time, at least for the rest of our lives.
Very rich foreigners have been buying farmland in Uruguay for over a decade as a backup plan. Uruguayans are already resenting this because farmland has become so expensive that it doesn’t make any sense to buy land to farm for a living as a consequence. So far Uruguay remains an open country that welcomes anyone willing to go there, but I wonder how long that will last. In the last decades we have received immigrants from all over the world, but particularly from Europe, North America, East Asia, Latin America, and the Arab countries. Most of them are multimillionaires, but not all.
By the way, Colombia and Venezuela are essentially Northern Hemisphere countries and right on the Equator, so I don’t think many people will want to move there. The best bug out locations in South America are in southern Brazil, Argentina, Chile, and Uruguay.
Anonymouse on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:38 pm
ROFL what an idiot!
Hey, feel free to post your delusional stupidity under your own name. Coward
Davy on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:42 pm
“Anonymouse on Sun, 14th Jun 2020 5:38 pm
ROFL what an idiot! Hey, feel free to post your delusional stupidity under your own name. Coward”
Back at you pussy. There is not a day that goes by you are not fucked up over me. This is great. I hope it continues for years. What a worthless life you must live.