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A Moral Code For The Post-Collapse World
Popular media today, including television and cinema, are rife with examples of what is often referred to as moral relativism — the use of false and fictional moral dilemmas designed to promote the rationalization of an “ends justify the means” narrative. We are also bombarded lately with entertainment depicting an endless array of “anti-heroes,” protagonists who have little to no moral code fighting antagonists who are even more evil, thus vindicating the otherwise disgusting actions of the heroes. From “24” to “Breaking Bad” to “The Walking Dead,” American minds are being saturated with propaganda selling the idea that crisis situations require a survivor to abandon conscience. In other words, in order to defeat monsters, you must become a monster.
This theme is not only unavoidable in film and TV, but also in military journals, politics, and even within liberty movement discussion.
What I see developing is an extremely dangerous philosophy that rests on the foundation that victory (or survival) is the paramount virtue and that it should be attained at any cost. Moral compass becomes a “luxury” that “true” apex survivors cannot afford, an obstacle that could eventually get one killed. I have heard some survivalists and liberty proponents in anger over the trespasses of the corrupt establishment suggest a strict adherence to the eye-for-an-eye ideology, up to and including torture, harming of the enemy’s families, and even harming the children of those who would harm us.
There is also a small but ingrained subculture within spheres of survivalism that embraces the strategy of the “prepper pirate,” essentially planning their subsistence around the idea of taking what they need from others as a form of evolutionary realism. They believe that the “survival of the fittest” is more important than the survival of the principled.
In mainstream yuppie culture, this attitude would be labeled insane. Yet urban and suburban television addicts often cheer the concept of the ends justifying the means in their favorite prime time shows and consistently argue for morality stretching policies within government (as long as their “team” is in control of the football in Washington, D.C.). I have little doubt they would adopt such thinking in the event that disaster does strike and they find themselves unprepared amid desperate conditions.
In “Understanding The Fear Of Self-Defense And Revolution,” I discussed the inevitability of self-defense against criminal oligarchy and why common methods of pacifist activism are dangerously inadequate in the face of psychopathic tyranny. When self-defense or revolution is initiated, though, the movement does not necessarily fight only for its own benefit; nor does it fight simply to eliminate the threat. Our survival as individuals is not the primary concern; the survival of the principles and truths that drive us to fight is the ultimate goal. If there is such a thing as the “greater good,” truth and honor must be the apex of that vision.
If we cast aside our principles in the name of victory, then, ironically, we have still lost everything. Our war is fought on multiple levels, from the physical to the spiritual. Lose the spiritual war, lose sight of one’s conscience, and the physical war becomes meaningless.
I believe the formation of a liberty movement code, a kind of warrior’s code, is absolutely vital to our future. Without a new kind of oath, an oath not only to the Constitution but to our own internal values, the temptation to use our darker natures against the enemy during greater trials of the soul may be too much to bear. While conscience is an inborn gift, it sometimes requires a more outward affirmation in order to remain strong. Here are some elements I believe should make up the foundation of our code.
Defense Of The Innocent
We will do everything within our power whenever possible to ensure the safety and liberty of those people around us caught in the currents of collapse. Some might claim that the unprepared are not “innocent” because their lack of vigilance contributes to the decay of our society. I would say that while the ignorant are a danger to us and themselves, we would also be contributing to the decay of our society by refusing to help others when we have the ability to do so. Someone somewhere has to end the cycle. And if that requires us to sacrifice some of our energy and the satisfaction of saying “we told you so,” then this is what we must do.
I would also point out that the defense of the innocent does not begin when our economic and social structures end. We help them now, by offering them the knowledge to prepare and organize for mutual aid. We go to our town centers, to local churches, to our lecture halls; and we openly educate those who are willing to listen — not to preach politics or to indoctrinate, but to offer practical knowledge. We give them useful tools through neighborhood watch programs and Community Preparedness Teams. We teach them today how to defend themselves, their families and their property and how to invest in survival, so that tomorrow they will not feel compelled to become part of the problem, but part of the solution.
If we let our distaste for the unaware lead us into an attitude of “us versus them” against our own neighbors, then we will miss every chance to strengthen our communities. Our purpose is to bring others up, not to stand in pious judgment as they fall down.
We Prepare To Offer Aid, Even To Those We Think Might Not Deserve It
Many survivalists and preppers may scoff at this idea, but they would not be looking at the bigger picture. Offering aid to your community serves not only to help them, but to help you in the long run. Look at it this way; when FEMA arrives in a disaster-struck city or county, its “authority” means little to the shell-shocked citizenry. What does matter to them is that FEMA brings food, water and sometimes shelter. FEMA does this in its own sweet time and often allows numerous people to die before the aid is given, but it still maintains its authority over a region simply because there is no other alternative.
You must offer that alternative.
Imagine what would have happened if during the nightmare of Hurricane Katrina, while FEMA was lounging around watching the carnage and even denying access to private institutions offering supplies, New Orleans residents were greeted with liberty movement teams defying government mandate? What if liberty advocates from across Louisiana and the nation had marched right over the top of FEMA, escorted those trapped in the Superdome to a safe place, and gave them food and water? The movement raised millions of dollars for Ron Paul’s campaign (twice!), why couldn’t we do the same to save lives?
Imagine if we were to prove that FEMA is an unnecessary and frivolous organization ready for the dustbin? Imagine if we were to prove that communities can provide their own security and aid without the state, as Oath Keepers did in Ferguson, Missouri?
Even at a local level, this methodology could mean the difference between freedom and tyranny. Stockpiles of grain bought directly from independent farms can be had for very little money and strategically placed for use in future calamities. Affordable water filtration could prevent disease and dehydration for thousands. A team of engineers could solve waste and grid-down dilemmas. A team of well-trained security personnel could prevent looting, rape and murder. Imagine if the catastrophe the elites wish to engineer was mitigated or thwarted by the very people the disaster was meant to target? Imagine how much satisfaction that would give you.
Our Actions Are Inspired By Conscience, Not Rage
To fight in self-defense is entirely moral, but there are lines that, if crossed, destroy our moral high ground. Without the moral high ground, we become no better than the elites we seek to remove from our lives. This means that we do not harm people unless they are attempting to harm us. We punish criminals, not their families and not their children. We do not torture, not only because it is a useless tactic with little concrete proof of effectiveness, but because it is a morally reprehensible psychopathic act designed to fulfill a sick desire for sadistic power. It is not who we are.
When we fight, we fight in the knowledge that we have first and foremost protected our moral foundation. We see those who promote moral ambiguity and moral relativism as an element destructive to the purpose of liberty. Winning means nothing and survival means nothing, unless we endeavor to deserve life.
We Do Not Run Unless We Plan To Return
In an asymmetric revolution, there is rarely such a thing as a “front line” or a piece of ground that must be defended at all costs. That said, successful asymmetric warfare requires that the enemy pay an overwhelming price for every attack he initiates. This means that said revolt must always be aggressive, never relenting, always striking, and resting or retreating only to stage a more effective counter. Every time a totalitarian system advances without consequence, it generates political, social, psychological and tactical momentum. Without the courage to engage such advances, revolt is impossible. Fear leads to moral rationalizations. The fearful cannot adequately defend themselves, let alone defend others; and, once again, the moral high ground is lost.
Zero Tolerance For Piracy And Criminality Within
Prepper pirates and others on the very fringes of the survival movement who seek to thrive at the expense of others are not only criminal according to natural law, but they are also a blight on the reputation of the liberty movement itself. Our principles will require us to stamp out such people as a priority. Those who would viciously impose upon the innocent as a preplanned strategy are not redeemable. Even if they claim to hate the same elites we fight against, the enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend. Prepper pirates are rabid dogs who should be put down.
We Are Professionals, And Guardians Never Satisfied With Half Measures
We carry ourselves as quiet professionals. We strive to represent the best potential of what the liberty movement has to offer. There is no problem we cannot solve and no opponent too large. We do not know the meaning of the word “impossible.” We operate best under pressure and during disaster. We move to disrupt crisis before it begins when possible, and we refuse to stand back as spectators when crisis does develop. We work diligently to master all knowledge and training that could be used to achieve our goal, which is a free, prosperous and independent citizenry. We do not seek leadership over others; we only wish to teach others how to lead themselves. We will not stop until this goal is accomplished or until we are no longer breathing. We are not mutable or flexible where tyranny is concerned. We are entirely uncompromising. We are stubborn bastards, here to drive oligarchs even crazier than they already are. We are here to undo them and their treacherous world. And in this mission, we find ultimate comfort and peace.
41 Comments on "A Moral Code For The Post-Collapse World"
ghung on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 7:47 am
As I’ve always said, stay in touch with your inner sociopath, but don’t lose control. Morality is a luxury that survival doesn’t always allow for.
Makati1 on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 7:50 am
In other words … what?
ghung on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 8:02 am
In other words, we’re a very conflicted species.
Davy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 8:21 am
These are some great thoughts that must be pushed now by the Alt-BAU crowd. We have to combat the BAUtopian philosophies and the Hollywood dirt that promote winners, losers, death, violence, good violence, evil targets, and big brother. We have to squash agendist and propagandist of all colors where possible. We have to recognize with such a large population and our locals nakedness from its dependence on the global there is no decouple.
There will only be some winners and some losers locally. Nothing at the higher scales will survive without a destructive reorientation to the reality of descent. This collapse of BAU coming likely within the next decade will be ugly, painful, and messy. There will be no way to avoid the worst of human nature in this scenario yet, life is a wave or a frequency. The good of man will be there with the bad.
It will be those regions that have some sustainability and resilience in conjunction with these attitudes of cooperation and empathy that will survive. It will only be through responsible stable locals that any lifeboats even have a remote chance of longer term survival.
For us individually this brings up a great point for dooming and prepping. We can find our own personal value in being heroic. We can find meaning in helping others especially the family, tribe and local community. That is the most basic of human nature.
What we see today with geopolitics, MSM message, BAU art, and market greed is the entropy of human ideas. We are seeing the evolutionary dead end of man as a global species. Man was never meant to be in such large complex groups and connections. It is depersonalizing and breeds psychopaths and megalomaniacs.
Nature will returns us to our place which is small groups in localized settings. This may take decades but I see no alternative considering all the predicaments ahead that define us as bottleneck man. Our days are numbered but the time frame is uncertain. In the mean time you personally can find meaning when SHTF with those higher values. You may not make it but remember no one gets out alive anyway. At least in your last breaths you can have the satisfaction of being heroic in your own small world. If there is a heaven of some kind could that not be it. If there is a hell could the alternative be it?
Rodster on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 8:32 am
TYPICALLY whenever the proverbial SHTF it’s everyone for themselves. Or as Gerald Celente likes to say: “When people lose everything and have nothing else to lose, they LOSE IT”.
Davy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 8:41 am
Great thoughts that must be pushed now by the Alt-BAU crowd. We have to combat the BAUtopian philosophies and the Hollywood dirt that promote winners, losers, death, violence, good violence, evil targets, and big brother. We have to squash agendist and propagandist of all colors where possible. We have to recognize with such a large population and our locals nakedness from its dependence on the global there is no decouple.
There will only be some winners and some losers locally. Nothing at the higher scales will survive without a destructive reorientation to the reality of descent. This collapse of BAU coming likely within the next decade will be ugly, painful, and messy. There will be no way to avoid the worst of human nature in this scenario yet, life is a wave or a frequency. The good of man will be there with the bad.
It will be those regions that have some sustainability and resilience in conjunction with these attitudes of cooperation and empathy that will survive. It will only be through responsible stable locals that any lifeboats even have a remote chance of longer term survival.
For us individually this brings up a great point for dooming and prepping. We can find our own personal value in being heroic. We can find meaning in helping others especially the family, tribe and local community. That is the most basic of human nature.
What we see today with geopolitics, MSM message, BAU art, and market greed is the entropy of human ideas. We are seeing the evolutionary dead end of man as a global species. Man was never meant to be in such large complex groups and connections. It is depersonalizing and breeds psychopaths and megalomaniacs.
Nature will returns us to our place which is small groups in localized settings. This may take decades but I see no alternative considering all the predicaments ahead that define us as bottleneck man. Our days are numbered but the time frame is uncertain. In the mean time you personally can find meaning when SHTF with those higher values. You may not make it but remember no one gets out alive anyway. At least in your last breaths you can have the satisfaction of being heroic in your own small world. If there is a heaven of some kind could that not be it. If there is a hell could the alternative be it?
Fulton J. Waterloo on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 9:38 am
Well said, Brandon!
Rusty Baker on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 10:44 am
You are all going to die, including all of you psychotic preppers with your delusions of immortality and apocalypse. I’m sorry to break the news to you guys.
green_achers on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 10:48 am
“TYPICALLY whenever the proverbial SHTF it’s everyone for themselves. Or as Gerald Celente likes to say: “When people lose everything and have nothing else to lose, they LOSE IT”.”
Since that TYPICALLY happens, I’m sure you can show me plenty of examples in history.
ghung on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 11:00 am
Rusty – Back at you. Your assumptions about preppers are invalid for the most part. Being self-sufficient has nothing at all to do with “delusions of immortality and apocalypse”, at least for most of us. In my case, I just needed to avoid associating with assholes and as much as possible, and avoid being reliant upon the asshole systems you worship and depend upon so mightily.
See my first comment, up top, about me staying in touch with my inner sociopath, for a hint as to how preppers like me deal with assholes that show up begging because they didn’t prep at all, and have nothing useful to offer.
That said, how is it any skin off of your back if we do what we do? You seem threatened by our ‘alternative’ way of life. Methinks you’re not as sure of things, or yourself, as you want folks to believe.
PrestonSturges on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 11:15 am
This whole thing immediately started sounded creepy to me. What about the old school white separatist/white supremacist survivalists that have been prepping for a race war since the 1960s? Are they going to be screened out? To me it sounds like the Neighborhood Watch could morph into death squads.
And that includes the Ron Paul donors. Ron Paul vanished from public life when it was revealed how many of the had Nazi connections.
And that “carnage” in New Orleans largely a hoax, except for the cops that went on a shooting spree and then to prison. Nearly every story about Katrina anarchy has been scrubbed from the internet except that one at American Renaissance, a white supremacist site.
Davy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 11:22 am
Rusty, man up and quit being a puss. Your attack just shows how lame your augument is. You have no idea what prepping is except for your Nat Geo viewing experience.
I hope I am wrong and the BAUtopians are right for a few years but there is little to point to a long term future. Why don’t you offer something substantive besides the fact we are all going to die. How friggen original is that?
Rusty Baker on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 11:29 am
C’mon, most of you don’t want to face the facts. I think it’s fair to say most people commenting on this board are 60 years of age or older. That terminable cancer or Alzheimer’s diagnosis might be near; or worse yet, you might fear being relegated permanently to the nursing home when you gradually become incontinent. Given this more probable mundane reality, I can see why most of you would rather indulge in these exciting, apocalyptic, survival-of-the-fittest scenarios where you an your progeny rise from the ashes of industrial civilization to become the ubermensch(superhuman) survivors that rule the earth , and thus granting you some kind of sense of immortality.
PrestonSturges on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 11:38 am
Does this include purging the “liberty movement” of Alex Jones fans and antisemites? Because to me it sounds like that “neighborhood watch” could easily morph into death squads.
Davy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 11:58 am
Rusty, I am in my fifties and healthy maybe not in mind but my body is good. I am more worried for my kids than myself. I have had a good run and at various times in my life I have lived like a king. My kids have a shitstorm ahead. If you are young Rusty the same likely awaits you.
As for your description of the old men doomers and prepper message here on PO, that description points to what I think is you watching too much TV. Why not got off the couch Rusty. Throw away your cheese doodles, dump out the Mountain Dew and start a garden. Learn some kind of post collapse trade. If that is too much work then at least learn to read books instead of surfing the dish network polluting your mind with BAUrosis.
ghung on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 12:33 pm
Rusty; again I have to wonder what your reasons are for belittling and criticising others who prefer to be prepared and more self-sufficient. This not-yet-sixty guy wants to know. These attacks are usually the result of the attacker’s own insecurities. In short, I think you’re just a chicken-shit who has few skills and no hope of preparing for much of anything, so you go after those of us who are simply trying to live our lives as we see fit.
I could be wrong, but can think of no other explanation. Does it make you feel better taking cheap shots at people who you’ve never met; who’ve done absolutely nothing to you? Helluva a way to waste a life; a much more ridiculous way to spend one’s time than the things I do. Go find meaning in something.
Nigel on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 1:01 pm
Rusty – you need to prep…PDQ
Nigel on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 1:06 pm
As for the article, waste bin I think…
Rusty Baker on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 1:12 pm
You are all ignoring the fact that most preppers are absolutely batshit insane. On one end of the spectrum, you have the right-wing, white-supremacist, anti-semitic, anti-government libertarian, religious fundamentalist, gun-worshipping faction. And on the other hand, you have the naive, leftist, nature-worshipping, atavistic primitivist idiots who believe we should go back to living in mud huts and eating bugs off of rotten logs and having tribal wars with sticks and stones. These two elements predominantly comprise the so-called “prepper” movement. To believe otherwise is denial. If you find “meaning” in believing that growing a little garden and stockpiling a few canned goods and bottled water is going to somehow guarantee you immortality, then fine. But recognize that life is inherently meaningless and you are no more significant to the universe than an oyster or cockroach. All sense of order, meaning and ego(sense of self) are illusions manufactured by that three pound mass of bloody goo in your skull also known as your brain.
ghung on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 1:25 pm
Rusty: “But recognize that life is inherently meaningless…”
My life is full of meaning. Pity the hollow fool that hasn’t discovered something, anything, that means something, or doesn’t have the courage to rid the world of his meaningless self. Some folks prefer to just fester I suppose.
Gosh, Rusty, you still haven’t confessed why you’ve come here to explain us to ourselves. Looking for meaning, or just trying to reinforce your own meaninglessness?
Nigel on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 1:26 pm
..and on the third hand… I understand where you are coming from, Rusty. However, we aren’t all like that.
I write this on a laptop charged by a water turbine; I’ve been drinking our own sweet spring water for 25 years (boiled first of course); our meal tonight – cooked on the Rayburn fuelled by our own trees; eggs from the hens potatoes from the garden; food stored in the psntry – sufficient ’till the nest harvest; bees in the orchard and debt free; surrounded by similar neighbours in a remote part of Wales.
Nigel on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 1:30 pm
..psntry = pantry, nest = next
Ok, so the LED lighting could be better…
Davy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 1:36 pm
Rusty, grow some hair on your nuts son. You are talking like a cocky kid who thinks he has it all figured out. In your case you claim it hopeless so why prep? I think you having only two pounds of goo may be the problem.
Your description of the doomer and prepper crowd focuses on the extremes that the talk shows and reality TV like to show. That appeals to folks like you that only have 2lbs of goo. Increasingly people with 3lbs of goo and people with 3lbs of goo and money are choosing to prep. They are fully using their 3lbs of goo to understand the danger ahead. The dangers are scientific and factual.
The 3lbs of goo people realize a minimum of prep can be the difference between a life threatening situation and a situation of rational survival actions. These people want to avoid desperate actions that occure with people who are not prepared. Then there are those like you Rusty with 2lbs of goo who chose to be a sheeple.
People like you Rusty attack logical thinking and actions because people like you haven’t had any logical thinking experience. 2lbs goo people like you choosing instead to do sheeples things and believe sheeple myths. Wake up Rusty or just grow hair on your nuts and admit you are unprepared and too lazy to get prepared. So you lash out at those with 3lbs of goo who have.
Nigel on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 1:45 pm
….and, also the car tyre shoulder pads chafe the neck something chronic…
Davy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 2:17 pm
Nigel, great story. I was in Wales in the 90’s. I was amazed at the wild feel of the Wales in such an otherwise populated GB. Good luck on your journey.
Rusty Baker on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 2:41 pm
Davy, I get it, you like prepping and denigrating everybody else that doesn’t prep as “sheeple” or whatever other derogatory terms you like to spitefully spew out of your facial orifice, which I see somehow gives you a sense of superiority. But despite all your so-called prepping, you could still be diagnosed with some terminal cancerous tumor, or die in some freak accident before you ever get to exercise your prepping techniques. In addition, this anticipated grand, apocalyptic peak oil collapse could never come in your lifetime: what use would all that paranoid prepping be good for? You still haven’t factored these contingencies into your future plans, Davy. That is your fatal flaw in logic, sir.
ghung on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 2:49 pm
Gee, Rusty, I’m still waiting for you to justify coming here and criticising those of us you don’t know, whom you’ve never met, and have never done anything to you. Why? Simple question you don’t seem to be able to answer…
..and at least Davy has found some meaning in his life. Jealous? Some perverse hard-on thing from tearing other people down?
Nigel on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 2:50 pm
Davy, it hasn’t changed much. The entry fee’s a bit more now….(on the bridges) ;o)
Err.. Rusty, it’s happening now.
Davy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 3:01 pm
Rusty 2lbs of goo, who died and made you my confidante? How the hell do you know what is going on in my head. Most normal people are well aware of life’s usual dangers. Most people with 3lbs of goo accept that as normal. 3lbs of goo people take care of themselves and wear seat belts as actions to ward off accidents and disease.
My denigration on this site is usually with uneducated idiots that come on PO and go on the attack spewing their puke. This is a perfect example of you Rusty 2lbs of goo.
I humbly admit my prep has no guarantee. I doom because I honestly feel there are serious dangers ahead. If I am preaching on PO it is a giving of my time and effort to warn others. I listen closely to what others say. This is a site of meaningful dialogue for all of our betterment.
Rusty 2 lbs of goo what is your MO? It appears you just want to be a troll like creature. It has been a few months since you were on PO. Did you just get bored today and need to stir the pot? We need meaningful contributions here not idiot criticism that suits your agenda of the day. You remind me of a white trash that has a bad day at work and comes home and kicks the dog to feel better.
Rusty Baker on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 3:12 pm
All of you would-be preppers like to criticize others for being cornucopian or too optimistic, while you yourselves hold onto some belief of prepper utopia that will somehow materialize after the peak oil collapse is over. In this prepper-utopian belief, you guys will be the ultimate survivors because of your impeccable intellect and forethought. You believe that living “closer to nature” and “off the land” are intrinsically good things. But, in fact, life in the state of nature is short, nasty and brutish, as per Thomas Hobbes. Life expectancy will be shortened, you will be more vulnerable to disease and injury, superstition and religious fundamentalism will increase, tribalism and violence will be more commonplace, famine and natural disasters will wreak havoc continually and no centralized authority or government will help you rebuild, etc. But despite these facts, you all like to conveniently ignore these established observations of feudal and primitive societies. And in the face of societal collapse, it is not a guarantee that preppers will survive for long. In short, preppers are just as blindly optimistic or more so than your average BAU “sheeple” or “cornie”.
ghung on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 3:36 pm
One more time, Rusty: What do you hope to accomplish by coming here and telling us the same things we’ve heard for years? Hello?…… Rusty? I’ll submit that you’re just bent on wasting people’s time accomplishing nothing at all. Meanwhile, I have wood to get in,, you know, back to nature; close to the land; same life I’ve been living for years.
Nigel on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 3:44 pm
I was offering well intentioned advice. You can choose to heed it or not.
For the record, I don’t see societal collapse as imminent, not even close but I do see a bigger divide between the have’s and have not’s. I prefer to be a have.
Dredd on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 3:51 pm
Choose your trances carefully.
Apneaman on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 3:52 pm
rusty, sounds like you have as much understanding of any other society as Hobbes did, which is sweet fuck all. Your just full of assumptions. There are a billion web sites covering a million different things, so why come here protesting too much? I never waste my time going to creationist sites arguing with them. I think your projecting. In fact I can smell your fear through the inter tubes. You know it’s coming and you can’t handle it, so your in attack the messenger mode. Congratulations your officially in step one. Keep at it, next week or next month you will graduate to negotiating (false solutions) and then it’s onto blame then acceptance. Don’t be surprised if you jump back and forth a lot; it’s all part of the process and we all been through it. Welcome aboard Rusty Doomer.
GregT on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 4:13 pm
“you all like to conveniently ignore these established observations of feudal and primitive societies.”
And you Rusty, are conveniently ignoring the fact that ‘feudal and primitive societies’ prospered on the planet Earth for at least tens of thousands of years, while modern industrial society cannot last longer than a few hundred years without destroying the biosphere that gave each and every single one of us our ‘short, nasty, and brutish’ lives.
You, Rusty, apparently believe that living in concrete jungles somehow protects us from this same brutal natural environment that gives us life? That we are somehow separated from the real world, because we might live several years longer? Be less vulnerable to disease or injury? Be more prone to religion, spirituality, and “tribalism”? You believe that famine and natural disasters would have a greater effect on small tribes, than on mega-cities with populations of tens of millions of people?
You really need to get out into the real world Rusty. Leave your cubicle behind. Learn what it feels like to really be alive.
farmlad on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 4:16 pm
Rusty
After enduring the high oil prices in 2008 and then the economy taking a tumble, My business was just spinning wheels.
Thanks to some of the folks on peakoil “including Dave” I’ve been able to get a better picture of whats happening and still had the time to sell some assets that are worth something, only as long as we have BAU. And invest in things that can be of use after the oil age.
Whether It will do me any good remains to be seen, but I can die in honor, knowing I did my part.
Snoopy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 4:24 pm
Rusty, if you don’t agree, get off the site. I think you’re a troll.
I’m 45 and very fit and healthy, I live in suburbia, work as a software developer in a bank, have two kids and the nearest I get to prepping is having a veggy patch. However, its inevitable and obvious we’re headed for very hard times and how others choose to prepare is up to them. They say ignorance is bliss and so in all honesty, you must live in utopia believing it’ll all be fine in the end.
Prepping is not about trying to find meaning, its believing a tragedy lies ahead and preparing you and your family for it.
Your description however of the most complex and inexplicable thing in the known universe as goo is insightful. I’m not what you describe as a ‘religious fundamental’ however, having spent my whole life as a science and nature lover I can’t believe the beauty and complexity I see is the product of miraculously improbable chance. I choose to believe its the result of another miracle and that’s what gives my life incredible meaning. So there you go, something else for you to poke fun at…
msnfanboy on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 4:51 pm
GO RUSTY LOL
Rusty, I agree going back to feudal times will be shit, however I prefer feudal to dark age/extinction.
You do make a very good point though, many here will not live to see it all fall apart (no offense chaps)!
As for Hobbes, he is only partly right. His theory was hypothetical and based of the white European. Yet in other lands (i.e. native American etc…) it really didn’t hold true.
As for the final charge…. Doomers are optimistic? little bit oxymoronic Rusty lol
These people here on this board take a far more ‘real’ (whatever that may be) approach to our existence in civilisation.
I noticed how you focused on an ad hoc argument with caricatures of doomers without actually battling with their core doctrine.
Talk about attacking the messenger lol
Still, thank you Rusty for launching an offensive on this site, its better than the usual cargo cult ‘were all gonna die’ mantra. It was fun/
GregT on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 5:05 pm
“better than the usual cargo cult ‘were all gonna die’ mantra”
You mean it isn’t true? Whew, that’s one less thing to worry about. Thanks MSN!
Makati1 on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 7:36 pm
LMAO. Of course we are all gonna die. Like predicting the future, the timing is the unknown. If you accept that it can happen at anytime, and then it is over, you can live a much happier life. You can enjoy each day as it comes. Smell the roses so to speak.
If you have a family, all you can do is try to make your death less painful by making sure they are taken care of to the best of your abilities before the event. Belief has nothing to do with it. Unless it is a slow death, you will not even know it happened.
ghung on Thu, 19th Feb 2015 8:38 pm
msnfanboy: “…many here will not live to see it all fall apart (no offense chaps)!”
No offence taken, especially since I’m watching things fall apart everyday. I suppose some of you are too close to the action to see it much, but virtually all of our systems are in decline or so leveraged they won’t matter much. The number of claims on real capital, of current and unfunded liabilities, is off the chart, historically. Demands on declining natural systems continue to escalate.
The great ‘falling apart’ is a journey, a process; something we witness in real time; contemplate in deep time. Welcome to the big reset. It’s going to take a while.