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12 Reasons Why People Refuse To Address The Idea That We’re Headed For Near-Term Societal Collapse
The starting point for a generative discussion of the deep adaptation agenda is a difficult one. Because to begin to rigorously and imaginatively discuss this topic first requires us to accept the likelihood of near term societal collapse. By which I mean that within ten years, in whatever society we are living in, that we will find ourselves in a situation where our normal means of income, sustenance, security, pleasure, identity and purpose all disappear. As it is impossible to predict the future within complex systems, “ten years” is not my prediction, and I mention it as a device to help focus this discussion without making people run out the room to stock their bunker. Please note that I am not suggesting we have the whole ten years: we might have less than that. Haven’t a clue about what I am talking about? Then please read my paper on Deep Adaptation.
As I have been talking with people about this topic over the past few years, I’ve become aware of the barriers accepting near-term societal collapse and therefore barriers to rigorous and creative thinking and discussion about what we might do about it, personally and collectively. I have also become aware of the barriers I had for a few years to avoid addressing this topic with the seriousness it merits. So before outlining either the analysis of our environmental predicament or the new agenda this opens up, it may be useful to outline some of these barriers to useful dialogue. I do that as part of my invitation for you to either avoid – or momentarily suspend – such responses and adopt a “what if” perspective on societal collapse. Only then can one explore what a deep adaptation agenda might mean for oneself, one’s work and wider society.
I am not a psychologist. I presume there is a lot of psychological theory related to what I am perceiving when I discuss climate-induced collapse. Some theories like confirmation bias, wilful blindness, cognitive dissonance and the relatability of new information are ones that have reached me via the mainstream. But rather than attempt a poor hack of psychological theory to validate or explain my perceptions, I will instead share a purely layman’s perspective of the attitudes and responses I have encountered. I will therefore leave it to psychologists to come to my aid in elaborating on these experiences. In the following discussion, I may also be exhibiting certain fallacies that psychologists could point out for me. Any feedback is welcome (in the comments below). For ease of future discussion, I will label each of the following twelve types of dialogue-barring response with a somewhat catchy title.
The “Problem Person” Response
The first response that is a barrier to discussing deep adaptation is an “ad hominem” response, where we question the credibility of the person sharing the analysis. It is a response we all have when confronted with uncommon views. Is he credible? Is he an expert? Is this view widely shared? These are obvious and important questions to ask. But should not mean you avoid looking at the evidence yourself. Therefore, when asked that question, I suggest people read the summary of climate science and current measurements, in the first part of my Deep Adaptation paper.
The “Objectifying” Response
The second response that is a barrier to generative dialogue on this topic is to label the analysis of collapse as just one type of analysis amongst many. This approach sometimes includes expressing how apocalyptic thinking is a cultural trope throughout human history. This means that one can feel one has a broader perspective of a range of different views held by different people and organisations. Therefore, the emotional charge of the analysis of near-term collapse is reduced. One’s worldview is maintained including the view that one is a reasonable balanced person operating sensibly within a reasonable balanced society. The problem with this perspective is you are choosing to “sit on the fence” on the most important matter in your lifetime.
The “Polite Avoidance” Response
The third response that is a barrier to generative dialogue is to renegotiate for yourself what I am saying. It’s a polite conflict-avoiding form of response. It is where you might choose to focus on what you think is the useable bit of what I’m saying, where you conclude that things are very bad and therefore we need to increase our efforts to stave off collapse. But that’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying societal collapse is now inevitable within, probably, the next ten years. And I’m using the concept of “inevitable” because even if there is a eureka technology right now that is deployed at scale to take carbon out of the atmosphere, the heating that’s pre-determined from existing atmospheric CO2 plus the escalating feedback loops means societies will collapse anyway.
The “Moral Superiority” Response
The fourth response that is a barrier to generative dialogue on this topic is what I will call the “moral superiority” response. It is when people ask “is he being irresponsible for expressing this view?” The supposition made, most often without evidence, is that it will make people panic or become apathetic, and therefore we shouldn’t even be discussing it. Yet silencing our own thinking and discussion because of speculation on what this might do in the wider world is an illogical way of thinking. It is a response that I examine in my Deep Adaptation paper and contrast with the evidence from worldwide opinion surveys that suggests more people are becoming doubtful about the future. This objection often comes with accusations that people like me are “giving up” and irresponsibly implying everyone should “give up.” That is often said rhetorically without specificity of what exactly we are giving up on. Therefore, such statements reflect an annoyance a person is experiencing when hearing the idea of collapse. I am suggesting people give up efforts at the incremental reform of existing systems. I am suggesting people give up on any dependence on the status and security associated with their current way of life. I am suggesting people give up on assuming their lives have meaning by contributing to progress. I am suggesting people give up in postponing their attention to their own mortality and the meaning of life. I am not suggesting we give up on carbon reductions or active engagement in society. Quite the opposite. Many things can be discussed, as a result of this switch in thinking.
The “Postpone Judgement” Response
The fifth response that is a barrier to generative dialogue on this topic involves thinking to oneself that it might be true, but to know for sure then I’d have to really study and think, and I am too busy right now so will aim to analyse this later. Being busy is comprised of so many things. We could be having so much fun, or having invested so much of our time, money and spirit into a project that hasn’t yet succeeded, or know we want to have the fun we haven’t had before looking at this topic more. Why? Because we sense that looking more closely at near term societal collapse risks disrupting everything think about ourselves, the world and all that we have worked towards. The problem is that while one postpones, a subconscious panic can set in as more information about our current situation passes across our screens. Yes, I speak from experience on that one!
The “Fairy-tale” Response
A sixth response that is a barrier to generative dialogue on deep adaptation arises from a belief that we create the reality we experience, so we can help avoid a collapse by imagining something else. Within an individualistic framing, there is positive psychology, whether the moderate kind that involves believing ‘where the attention goes so energy flows’, or the extreme kind, where people want to believe in their own cosmic power to manifest anything they want by focusing their desire. Such a view ignores how we co-create our reality with other people and the more-than-human world. It stores up greater pain for when things don’t work out according to ones hopes and dreams. It might also restrict people from applying their minds to the world as it is now. A different version of this “fairy-tale” response to the latest climate science is the idea that so long as we identify with a new story of reality, beyond separation, we will be able to overcome a climate catastrophe. Although our current climate predicament is the result of a warped story of reality and place within it, the idea that by identifying with a new story of interbeing that we can reshape the world around us to avoid a collapse seems like wishful thinking. It may also be seeking to justify a view on reality and metaphysics by arguing for the utility of that view to an individual self – a highly seductive trap for spiritual teachers and their followers.
The “Not Bothered” Response
The seventh response that is a barrier to generative dialogue, is to think that because this analysis means it’s too late to fix things and maintain society as we know it, therefore we “may as well” just forget about climate change and do something else. In my experience, this view is shared by people who were not actively participating in society beyond their own self-interest. They may have accepted socially-defined notions of success and seek to avoid pain and maximise superficial pleasures. Therefore, they were not likely to contribute much to dialogues on social change in any case. So, we could let them go on their way. But sometimes I hear people express this view because they are angry at the injustice and inequality in our societies and could welcome how collapse will punish elites. When I hear that, then there is an opportunity to channel that anger at injustice into something more useful, given that it is the poor and marginalised who may suffer the worst in early stage of collapse.
The “Distract-Me Please” Response
An eighth response is to take on board the view that we face inevitable near-term collapse and decide one can’t live with the emotions this causes, so set it aside and work on something else, as if it didn’t exist. That is understandable, but impossible. I know, as this is how I responded for a few years. As more and more information is shared about the state of our climate and impacts on our agriculture and societies, the unresolved emotions lurk ready to interrupt your work and life.
The “God’s Will” Response
A ninth response that is a barrier to generative dialogue is to say yeah, I know we screwed, and that’s OK as our true nature is eternal spirit and therefore the end of society, civilisation, even our species, is just the normal passing of things. Such a perspective means you might say let’s take a deep breath in together and chant Om, then go get a green juice or glass of red wine. Another form of this response that is more likely in cultures shaped by Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Bahai) is that whatever is going to happen to our species is God’s will, and therefore we don’t need to discuss what to do about it.
The “Personal Survival” Response
The tenth response I have experienced over the years is to take the analysis of collapse on board and then let the fear-response shape one’s priorities and decisions, so begin to look for means of self-preservation. Many people with that kind of response think they are fully accepting the situation and integrating it into their lives. But being a “prepper” in the complex system of human society within the wider complex system of nature means that this kind of “bunker mentality” is unlikely to work. Not that we shouldn’t look to create arks.
The “Extinction Wins” Response
An eleventh response to generative dialogue on deep adaptation is the view that near term human extinction is inevitable or very likely. Some people with such a view consider any discussion about what to do to reduce the impact of collapse, save the species, or support what might come after this civilisation is gone, are all forms of deluded hope. That one thinks human extinction is inevitable would not necessarily preclude working on the things I just mentioned, as one can act as if it might still be possible to achieve such things, just in case that it is. Or, it might even be possible to accept human extinction and seek to reduce the radioactive legacy we would leave the rest of planet Earth. Those who dismiss any such dialogue are therefore likely trying to find solace in certainty, rather than reconsider everything and consider being active in society.
The “Nit Picking” Response
Rather than deal with the gravity of the analysis, the twelfth barrier is to focus on a detail of communication. For instance, a mistake in a piece of data, or a reference, or annoyance at the tone or content of once utterance. Or perhaps focusing on the lack of depth of discussion in one paper on one set of ideas – from permaculture to geoengineering – which are seen as the be all and end of what should be discussed. This is milder than an ad hominin attack, but helps someone engage with the material without engaging with the significance of the material and thus avoiding meaningful dialogue on deep adaptation. I left it to last in my list as this response is such a boring one, I find it draining to even mention.
Beyond Those Barriers: The Power of “What If?”
These twelve types of response all share the implication that we don’t have to sit with the analysis of near term collapse and explore openly with others all the possible implications. I think these forms of response may therefore all respond to the subconscious desire to close-down this awkward topic as quickly as possible. But I’m not a psychologist. So, to any psychologists reading this, if you can add any context to the ideas I have outlined that could help me (and others). Then any advice for how to help people awaken to such patterns and move beyond them would be great. Also, if I’m exhibiting a pattern as well, then go let me know 😊
If people avoid or overcome the twelve barriers I have described, to then discuss the components and implications of a deep adaptation agenda, or similar, then this doesn’t mean people will agree with each other. Not at all. Someone may turn to religion. Some to nationalism. Some to principles of universal love and compassion. Some may focus on geoengineering. Others on humanitarian action. Some on moving beyond capitalism. And so on. But that’s where our dialogues should be focused on now. Sadly, our dumbed-down establishment-aligned media still think it is best to debate whether climate change is real or associated with extreme weather events that, by repeating regularly, show how climate has changed.
In future I will write more about some avenues for discussion, for those who want to seek meaning, potency and urgency within a context of impending collapse. But my conviction is that once people overcome the twelve barriers I have just described, then hopefully many better views on what to do than my own will begin to emerge.
87 Comments on "12 Reasons Why People Refuse To Address The Idea That We’re Headed For Near-Term Societal Collapse"
ugene on Sun, 30th Sep 2018 8:17 pm
Personally I came to the same conclusion some time ago. It is nice to read someone in the same line of reasoning.
Ghung on Sun, 30th Sep 2018 8:39 pm
“The tenth response I have experienced over the years is to take the analysis of collapse on board and then let the fear-response shape one’s priorities and decisions, so begin to look for means of self-preservation. Many people with that kind of response think they are fully accepting the situation and integrating it into their lives. But being a “prepper” in the complex system of human society within the wider complex system of nature means that this kind of “bunker mentality” is unlikely to work. Not that we shouldn’t look to create arks.”
Meh. People “prep” for the future in many ways. Reducing one’s liabilities and reliance upon complex system can’t hurt.Being more self-sufficient, out of debt, etc, just means fewer things to worry about when things get hairy.
makati1 on Sun, 30th Sep 2018 9:19 pm
Totally agree, Ghung. “
I AM THE MOB on Sun, 30th Sep 2018 9:37 pm
“He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself..”
-Thomas Paine
deadly on Sun, 30th Sep 2018 9:55 pm
Forgot about the insouciant response.
Can’t forget that one.
Life in Bad Axe, Michigan has been better.
“We have a serious issue in Huron County with trash, debris and unkempt yards,” he added. “We’re working on it in our office, but basically, with the staff we have, we use a complaint-based approach to it.”
“I think we need to make the community more aware,” he said.
A drive around the countryside caused Smith to agree with survey respondents.
“We want to work with (property owners) to get it cleaned up,” he said. “We know it can’t happen over night.”
When he broached the subject with one property owner, the owner responded, according to Smith, “Well, it took me 40 years to get here.”
A collapse is beginning?
Nascent shoots beginning to appear, maybe.
Cloggie on Sun, 30th Sep 2018 11:23 pm
The author talks about possible psychological responses to: “We’re Headed For Near-Term Societal Collapse”.
I believe that too, near term societal collapse, but he doesn’t give a hint as to WHY his society is near collapse.
Don’t rock the boat, eh?
The last drop on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 1:17 am
I got a full tank of gas, a full refrig of food, my paycheck did not bounce, loose shoes on my feet and some good sex…
Chrome Mags on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 1:55 am
I think people should entertain the possibility that full on societal collapse is theoretical, not certain. Why? Because people will always use what resources are available to do what they can, occurring within the parameters of an elastic range of possibilities. It’s not an all or none choice, but rather one of a multitude of variations in the middle of those two extremes.
This is why it’s going to be so difficult for those losing ground due to declining EROEI. Most won’t be able to pinpoint the origin of the cause, but they’ll know their standard of living keeps declining. But you’d be surprised how well people will simply do with less. Life in many ways is like a sleeping dream. We tend to accept alterations in reality and at the end of the day, what choice will people have?
If you look at the minimal amount of resources someone living in abject poverty uses, it’s not hard to realize people can subsist on very little. It’s hard to reconcile that with modern western opulence, but the room to fall but not perish it huge. That’s where things are going and that’s far scarier than sudden collapse, which by comparison would be merciful.
Davy on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 5:45 am
Good article because really the issues today with the decline process that may be near term societal collapse is behavior. This is the key to how we are going to adapt and mitigate to the coming discomfort, pain, and decay. Do we have 10 years? I was a 3-5 guy for many years post 08 crisis. I am now 10-15 year guy with 3-5 very possible. I want to say 10-15 is the end of the status quo. We then go into an altered decline process that may have a tail or it might rapidly fall apart. This is location based in nature also. We now see a place like Venezuela and its collapse process so we may well see regions and locations within regions dissolve quicker than elsewhere. Byzantium locations will survive the longest because they have the right stuff. Right now we have growth and decline which appears to most as growth. To people like me that study this deeply from all angles I see decline but acknowledge growth and this is why I went from a 3-5 to a 10-15.
Behavior is the key because our social narrative of our existential myths and social compacts drive our activities. These activities require meaning or we will not have the will to overcome entropy. Entropy never sleeps so we must not weaken. Entropy will win eventually but that does not mean you give up. Behavior comes to grip with this whole process. We use technology to battle entropy and mitigate the decay. Today technology has taken on a different role. It is now a driver of behavior and attitudes. We now feel a destiny of the power of knowledge and intelligence manifested in our techno powerful world. This has trashed many traditional behaviors that revolved around resilience, sustainability, and humility. It has allowed delocalizing behavior. It has allowed huge sloppy and wasteful footprints. Technology is part of the solution but it should not be the myth and the compact. When it becomes a god then we get what we have today.
We need to get back to a survival narrative. It needs to be grounded in the humility that we are a late term civilization that is succumbing to the succession process that is a planetary rule that governs the web of life. We forget we are in a greater ecosystem. This is behavior based and we can look at these behaviors as wisdom practices to get closer to a survival myth. This myth must be based upon a lower footprint for the planet but also for survival. This means a planet based spirituality along with a survival impulse. This first starts with acknowledgement of a fatal error of our current societal narrative. This is in essence getting closer to the truth. We will never know the truth but through wisdom we can attempt to get closer. Modern life is stepping away from the truth. Thus the way forward is not the way we are on. Yet, the way forward requires a hybrid way of living. Live the status quo to leaving it. We can’t be pilgrims and jump on a boat to the new world anymore. There is nowhere to hide from the modern status quo. This has to also be based upon the understanding of wisdom and its difference with intelligence. A primitive culture can be wiser than an advanced culture. This means if we are crafting a new way forward it must have the element of meaning and the wisdom to dispense this meaning as the center point for activity. Unbridled Intelligence through technology is not it. This points to getting meaning by getting back to community, the commons, and less individual discretionary satisfaction not understanding the deepest questions of life. We must have more localization and more common cause because that is what has powered humanity to where we are at. It is the way.
That said this seems unlikely in a world that is in overshoot on all plains of existence from the metaphysical to the brick and mortar of our civilization. Our narrative is hardened around techno optimism and individualism. It is also hardened around competitive cooperation which means a little war and a little democracy. In other words a messy muddle of way too many people and points of view. This results in far too much bad behavior to have any hope that a new creative myth and societal compact can be formed and implemented globally. It appears unlikely and frankly impossible. Crisis will be a driver of change and in a different world it could be the catalyst of proper change but in today’s world that is in a state of multiple extended thresholds then crisis just means the straw that breaks the camel’s back.
That is the view from the top but at the bottom the story is far different for those who want to relocalize in a local with a future. This may be a short future or not. This is about a future better than those many places without a future. Location is brutally honest because it is a planetary reality and also a social one. If you are in the wrong place in regards to planetary changes than you will be judged. If your community is a poor one without good connection you also will be judged. Crisis is the great equalizer. You can find community, meaning, and wisdom at the local level. Location is the key but if you are stuck where you are at you can still make changes. You can do things now to prepare and to live. This is not all about preparing for a possible death. It is about living now in a way of life that offers meaning and attempts at maintaining a relative degree of comfort. For those of you who are caregivers and leaders then it is about caring for those who do not or cannot understand this process. It is about being heroic and wise in your own little world. The way forward is out there now. The knowledge of what is needed is there. It requires proper attitude at the starting point to learned behavior. It will come to you naturally when your attitude is correct. This is why this time in the process behavior is the key not technology. It is morale and it is wisdom.
Davy on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 6:00 am
“This Fascinating World Map was Drawn Based on Country Populations”
https://tinyurl.com/y9oyelfn
DerHundistLos on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 6:51 am
VICIOUS REPUBLICAN ATTACKS ON THE PLANET
“This was a lousy week for the environment, even beyond the pollution emanating from hearing rooms in the nation’s capital.
Republicans revved up efforts to weaken the Endangered Species Act to make it easier to take species off the protected list when their numbers have allegedly recovered. The apparent spark was a court decision last week to restore protections for some 700 grizzly bears in Yellowstone National Park. The law, while successful and popular, might need some updating after 45 years. But a GOP defanging is not that.
Then came word of the completion of the Trump administration’s plan to roll back major safety regulations on offshore drilling adopted after the horrific Deepwater Horizon spill in 2010 — including junking a requirement that oil company equipment be designed to handle extreme weather conditions, like the frequent hurricanes in the Gulf of Mexico, and eliminating independent checks on safety measures on drilling platforms. If you think this makes no sense, you’re right.
From northern Alaska came word that a lake there is hissing and bubbling — from the powerful greenhouse gas methane being released from the underlying lake bed. Methane, it turns out, is being released from lakes across the arctic. These lakes are forming in the soft permafrost soil as it thaws. As it thaws, the permafrost, which contains huge amounts of carbon, releases carbon dioxide. And the methane and carbon dioxide further warm the planet, and that further warms the permafrost, and then we’re facing what could be a particularly nasty feedback loop.
Spiking that anxiety was reporting that found that the Trump administration is forecasting a 7-degree rise in global temperatures by 2100. That’s about 4 degrees Celsius, which scientists say would be catastrophic. The projection was in an environmental-impact statement from the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration intended to justify President Donald Trump’s decision to freeze car and light truck fuel efficiency standards in 2020. And here’s the best part: The statement basically said that since the world already is going to hell in a global warming handbag, raising temperatures a little more by increasing emissions via a freeze on fuel efficiency standards isn’t going to do much more damage. Either way, we’re fried!
But the coup de grace was delivered by a report that found that climate change is taking a greater toll on our national parks than anywhere else in the country. Yes, our national parks. Our natural cathedrals and refuges. Hosts of breathtaking beauty and biological diversity.”
Newsday
Davy on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 7:07 am
I am posting this comment to relate an effort I am doing to gather solar energy. This comment with link is with forage for animals. I also gather solar energy by practicing wood lot management. I also have a solar system that captures solar energy. It is cheaper for me to buy my hay, heat off the grid, and run my household with traditional methods and the grid but not when you factor in sustainability and resilience. How long will grid power be cheap and reliable? I also do this for reasons that are more than cost. I am trying to lower my emissions and ecological foot print. I am trying to be greener. There are many walks of life so there are many ways all of us can lower emissions and achieve a smaller footprint.
This is a direction I am heading to on my farm for hay. I want to be small horsepower, selective, and timely. With small horsepower I can use my compact utility tractor that is 20 HP at PTO. These tractors are very fuel efficient compared to their high horsepower brothers. I want to go electric with solar power charging but that will be down the road when cost are brought down. I am being selective by choosing small areas of the farm to harvest forage selectively based on type of forage. I am being timely because different forages require different harvest times. Harvesting requires season and weather timing. I want to be able to get in and out of a field at the most nutritious time of the year and deal with variable weather. I want to harvest forage all growing season long. This is not a solution for a commercial operator who is into production for reasons of profit. This approach is looking to get closer to permaculture that reduces energy needs and attempts to adapt to the intermittency of season and weather. If you keep horsepower down you can make up for lower production by lower costs. If you get quality forage at the right times you increase the value by getting more quality with the trade-off of less productions. I am selectively harvesting small areas which allow me to practice more harvesting without inputs. I am going into an area and taking forage and I will not revisit that area for a few years to allow it a time for it to regenerate. This is the old fallow field practice. I will also have areas that produce yearly that will require fertilizer but I am attempting to lower that energy intensive practice. Below is the electric tractor concept I would like to have someday. Next is the compact tractor I use now. I also have a high horsepower tractor but I am attempting to get away from its use except where needed. The last link is to the baler I am using now. Most balers require 40 horsepower or more.
Solar Electric Tractor Model 12 – Steve Heckeroth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YmbFtJlZpU
John Deere 4200
https://tinyurl.com/y8uf4sf7
The ABBRIATA® M60 SUPER square baler
http://www.abbriata.it/en/Square-balers/square-baler-m60super.html
Dredd on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 7:56 am
It is quite true, as the author points out, that there are multiple factors involved in solving or even identifying any global problem.
This is not unique to our current civilization, nor will ours be the first to commit “suicide” as a result: “In other words, a society does not ever die ‘from natural causes’, but always dies from suicide or murder — and nearly always from the former, as this chapter has shown.” – A Study of History, by Arnold Toynbee
The looming question is “will we be the last civilization to commit ‘suicide’?”
“In the Study Toynbee examined the rise and fall of 26 civilizations in the course of human history, and he concluded that they rose by responding successfully to challenges under the leadership of creative minorities composed of elite leaders. Civilizations declined when their leaders stopped responding creatively, and the civilizations then sank owing to the sins of nationalism, militarism, and the tyranny of a despotic minority.” – (How To Identify The Despotic Minority – 3).
onlooker on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 9:27 am
Pure Fear
WhenTheEagleFlies on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 12:02 pm
During the 1973 oil crisis I remember the country took it one day at a time.
Tommytommywantshismommy on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 3:44 pm
The Last Drop-
I have strong suspicion that most (all?) women will no longer be crazy horny
when the system collapses and starving zombie masses from the megacities venture out into the rural areas to rape and pillage the locals.
Cloggie on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 4:20 pm
Oh dear…
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6228497/British-planes-wont-able-land-EU-Brexit-goes-wrong-pets-face-four-day-quarantines.html
“British planes won’t be able to land in the EU… if Brexit goes wrong, says Jean-Claude Juncker in another threat to UK ahead of fresh negotiations”
#HolidayToBrightonNextYear
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 4:32 pm
Davy
Solar is a bigger joke than your sources..
Amateur youtube videos?
Solar and Wind produced less than one percent of total world energy in 2016 – IEA WEO 2017
https://www.iea.org/publications/freepublications/publication/KeyWorld2017.pdf
Desert sun in Qatar too hot for solar panels to work
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/desert-sun-in-qatar-too-hot-for-solar-panels-to-work-h23kmktbp
Air Pollution Casts Shadow over Solar Energy Production
http://pratt.duke.edu/about/news/solar-pollution
Outcast_Searcher on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 4:32 pm
What would be more relevant, given the track record, would be for the almost always wrong fast-crash predicters (and resetters, again and again) to examine why they never change, despite their lack of credibility.
Not that this would ever happen.
Meanwhile in the real world, the long term case for the inevitable failure of BAU growth persists (LONG term, not each and every month as a valid prediction of doom in our face).
And for those who need to plan and live in the real world, since they will certainly age and die, the need to grow and preserve wealth for their goals, their families, etc. persists. And since the stock markets badly beat any other mainstream investments over a period of decades — those investments continue to make sense.
Cassandra denial of economic reality doesn’t change any of that.
Outcast_Searcher on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 4:35 pm
DerHundlist: Let’s pretend liberals don’t ever burn fossil fuels. Or liberals, and their leaders won’t propose meaningful CO2 taxes to deal with the environment. Or that liberals will vote for ANY CO2 taxes. (See initiative 732 in Washington state in 2016 for a recent blatant example).
But keep ranting about politics, even if it doesn’t reflect reality as far as the big picture. After all, it gives your ilk something to do.
I AM THE MOB on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 4:38 pm
Outcast_Searcher
Financial catastrophe resulting from resource depletion and a debasement of value of fiat currencies. Then a 12-month window of tyranny and government lockdown on citizens, followed by a 6-month window of absolute carnage and death. Then, a period of about 6 months of slow die-off and that’s pretty much that. Oh, and starting sometime within the next 5 years or so…
https://imgur.com/a/pYxKa
https://imgur.com/a/rBtIrfg
Your screams of denial sound like the squealing of a pig beginning delivered to the butchers shop. The volume of their protestations being directly proportional to the proximity of their inevitable fate….
Antius on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 4:43 pm
“British planes won’t be able to land in the EU… if Brexit goes wrong, says Jean-Claude Juncker in another threat to UK ahead of fresh negotiations”
An action like that risks making us actual enemies. It didn’t end well last time did it Clog? It always falls to Britain to sort out European mess.
Cloggie on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 5:30 pm
“An action like that risks making us actual enemies. It didn’t end well last time did it Clog? It always falls to Britain to sort out European mess.”
An absurd statement.
Britain created the European mess twice, first to destroy a rising competitor…
https://deepresource.wordpress.com/2014/10/08/britain-masterminded-ww1/
…the second time as a proxy for US jewry:
https://documents1940.wordpress.com/2017/09/25/chamberlain-and-the-forrestal-diaries/
But now for the first time the roles are reversed. Continental Europe is now united and ready to turn into a super power. A few talks in Moscow (and Beijing) behind closed doors is all that is necessary to get the job done and declare the US empire/West tor over and liberate ourselves from the US oligarchs, preferably at the very moment Trump will leave office and the turmoil there can be expected to begin and two Anglo centuries can be buried.
A hard Brexit is in the interest of Europe to create the shock necessary to initiate the reversal and for Europe to retake its natural position in the order of things.
Antius on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 5:41 pm
Right now Europe is looking more fragile and uncertain than ever, with nationalist states edging towards conflict with entrenched Marxists. One it’s largest contributors is leaving; Italy is edging that way and Hungary is looking towards Russia. All of eastern Europe is beginning to rethink.
In the past, I think Britain would have been happy to leave on reasonable terms. If EU Marxists make things difficult and do things like no fly zones, then I think more active sabotage will occur. Things like giving other member states active assistance in leaving.
Davy on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 6:42 pm
“Davy, Solar is a bigger joke than your sources..”
How do you know you don’t have any?
makati1 on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 6:48 pm
Solar is a short term fix for the techies, but not a long term answer to energy needs. When the FFs end, it will only be a matter of time until solar panels and windmills stop working. Not to mention the end of things that use electric. They will not be able to be manufactured with the NET energy from renewables. Get a mule. LOL
onlooker on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 7:01 pm
Civilization is a progress trap. And certainly ours is. A “progress trap” is the condition human societies experience when, in pursuing progress through human ingenuity, they inadvertently introduce problems they do not have the resources or political will to solve, for fear of short-term losses in status, stability or quality of life. This prevents further progress and sometimes leads to societal collapse.
Wolfie52 on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 7:02 pm
Same fools, different month, same arguing each other about how soon we are all going to die. Wow, do you really think with 7+ billion people in the world YOU are going to survive because you are so smart? Not likely.
I suggest getting out of mom’s basement first, getting a life and stop wasting time arguing here! Every 2-3 months I see virtually the same names….#sad Yeah it was 3-5 years after ’08….pretty soon your life is gone and you are still waiting for the “collapse”.
twocats on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 8:25 pm
the near-term collapse is in danger of getting nearer. when a person is dying it’s called “compression of morbidity” – ailments start piling up so quickly that medical treatment can’t address them all, or address certain ones without disturbing others, or introducing a new problem (like onlooker mentioned).
here are the swirling issues right now that are sucking up attention:
1) mid-term elections
2) kavanaugh
3) oil supply shortfalls (ven, iran, shale)
3a) crude prices are spiking
4) us-china trade war
5) QT/rising rates
6) italian bank collapse
7) argentina peso collapse
8) china’s golden week (very short term)
and there are smaller issues swirling. this all takes management. and with ding-dong and kavanaugh creating an absolute vacuum on the news cycles its hard for anyone to pay attention to all the other shit happening. normally there would be a state department etc to deal with these “minor issues of empire” but all agencies have been gutted. the us gov’t is baby-drownable.
I think we’ll pull through this rough patch and the mid-term will shake things out one wa or another, but unraveling is a growing possibility over the next month.
makati1 on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 8:39 pm
“…unraveling is a growing possibility…”
No, unraveling is a growing probability. The 8 items you listed are red herrings to distract and misinform the American sheeple, while TPTB continue to destroy the US.
It’s interesting to watch from outside the 50 states of disunity. A freak sideshow to what is really happening in the center ring, the Great Leveling of America.
DerHundistLos on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 9:11 pm
outcast_loser
“Let’s pretend liberals don’t ever burn fossil fuels. Or liberals, and their leaders won’t propose meaningful CO2 taxes to deal with the environment. Or that liberals will vote for ANY CO2 taxes. After all, it gives your ilk something to do.”
Hey McFly, what the fuck is your point? Your mental acumen is amazing- well beyond the comprehension of mere mortals so would you please translate the meaning of your nonsense. On second thought, don’t since there’s nothing worthwhile to be learned.
DerHundistLos on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 9:38 pm
outcast
“What would be more relevant, given the track record, would be for the almost always wrong fast-crash predicters (and resetters, again and again) to examine why they never change, despite their lack of credibility. Meanwhile in the real world, the long term case for the inevitable failure of BAU growth persists.”
Obviously, you fail to realize the contradictory nature of your illogical diatribe. A course in introductory logic MAY help you, but that presupposes an innate level of basic intelligence.
“And for those who need to plan and live in the real world, since they will certainly age and die, the need to grow and preserve wealth for their goals.”
Amazing pearls of wisdom. The “real world” or an alternative universe, take your pick. “People will certainly age and die.” Most insightful revelation. Thank you for bringing this to our attention…..
Cloggie on Mon, 1st Oct 2018 11:54 pm
“When the FFs end, it will only be a matter of time until solar panels and windmills stop working.“
There is magic in the universe after all.
https://youtu.be/J1ho8di4ywQ
Cloggie on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 12:56 am
Right now Europe is looking more fragile and uncertain than ever, with nationalist states edging towards conflict with entrenched Marxists.
Uhuh, the biggest Marxist of them all is now perhaps leaving. Since the outcome of the last elections in Sweden, it is now Britain that is #1 Marxist. Brexit was always brought up to “stop immigration”, but that always meant white immigration from Eastern Europe. Expect non-white English-speaking immigration to increase after Brexit (if Brexit happens, which I hope it does).
One it’s largest contributors is leaving; Italy is edging that way and Hungary is looking towards Russia. All of eastern Europe is beginning to rethink.
That’s wishful thinking. First of all it is far from certain that the most anti-European country Britain is leaving in the first place. In all continental European countries there is no majority for leaving the EU. Even better, the populists now feel so strong that they think they can take over the EU:
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/lega-afd-und-ex-front-national-matteo-marine-und-viktor-fuer-europa-a-1228506.html
The right-wingers no longer want to leave, they think they can have it for themselves:
“Matteo, Marine und Viktor für Europa”
(Salvini, le Pen and Orban are now in favor of Europe. And yes, they are all for Putin-Russia).
Berlusconi is working towards a comeback and push the leftist-populists “5-star movement” out of the government. Berlusconi is the biggest friend Putin has in Europe and Putin has many, even Juncker:
https://www.trouw.nl/democratie/jean-claude-juncker-poetin-is-mijn-vriend~a7236236/
(“Putin is my friend”)
Berlusconi wants Europe to become a super power and with Russia we can achieve that “with two fingers in the nose”:
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/908338/Berlusconi-Italy-election-2018-EU-army-Brussels-Berlusconi-nuevo-look
So much for the “Marxist EU”.
In the past, I think Britain would have been happy to leave on reasonable terms.
All these “reasonable terms” boil down to undermining the unity of the EU, the deepest aspiration of every Brit, including you.
If EU Marxists make things difficult and do things like no fly zones, then I think more active sabotage will occur.
Again, Britain is racially the most Marxist of them all. We all know that Britain was never in the EU for any other purpose than to try to blow it up from within. That was exactly why de Gaulle, who was hostile against both Churchill and Roosevelt during WW2 (because he understood what these gentlemen were really up to: colonizing Europe), was warning against taking in the British, because they would block cooperation with the Russians. If we manage to get rid of the British we can finally do Europe right.
Things like giving other member states active assistance in leaving.
Perhaps you can “support” Poland again, like in 1939. What is required is a new Iron Curtain, now running through the Channel, not Hanover. And for that we need a hostile Brexit. In the end of the day Britain could very well become Europe’s Cuba, totally isolated from Europe and for 100% reliant on the US for support and become its new colony, exactly as your Orwell predicted would happen:
https://documents1940.files.wordpress.com/2017/09/george_orwell_map.jpg
(but not even Orwell foresaw that Anglosphere would become mongrel territory)
Britain is simply too small to stand on its own feet. By distancing itself from Europe, it automatically has chosen to become a US subsidiary. The good news: you can walk straight into the loving arms of Davy and millimind and together fight racism and natzism 24/7 and prepare for the demise of the “white devils” (you and Davy).lol
Seriously, Britain needs to be ignored. From a continental European perspective only white America is interesting and we will see if they can motivate themselves to an insurrection. If so, continental Europe should support that insurrection with all might, so we can carve out a substantial piece of North-America and draw it into our sphere of influence.
GetAVasectomyAndLetTheHumanSpecieDie on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 1:24 am
The province of Quebec in Canada has moved to the right. Not sure it really matter now. The immigrant are in and we don’t have the staff to deport them.
Western countries should have closed their borders a long time ago and prepared for peak oil by contracting their economy and infrastructure. It is now to late to elect anti-immigrant party.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4506505/quebec-election-caq-francois-legault-wins-majority/
Legault, the front-runner in the polls, has been noticeably absent on the campaign trail this week after polls suggested support is slipping for his party. He recently came under fire for his proposal on immigration, but he struck a more conciliatory tone when discussing his plans for newcomers.
“I am not perfect,” he said.
https://globalnews.ca/news/4471623/caq-leader-strikes-softer-tone-immigration-final-debate/
I am pretty sure nothing will change even if Quebec have elected a right wing party. They will still flood Quebec with immigrant anyway, same as France with Macron
Theedrich on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 2:23 am
The UK is overloaded and overbearing. Britain has less land area (80,823 sq mi, or 209,331 sq km) than the U.S. state of Oregon (98,000 sq mi, or 250,000 sq km), but 15 times the population (OR = ~4 million, Britain = ~61 million). It still imagines it has an empire (“Rule, Britannia!”) and cannot come to the grips with the fact that its very existence depends on its Big Brother, the U.S. Frankly, the slimy Limey existence is a disgusting, flea-bitten and anachronistic hangover from the Archean Eon of human history.
Aside from its admittedly important financial centers in London, this pipsqueak country has no power of any kind. Once it severs itself from Europe, the Europeans can decide what they want to do for themselves, and engage in a serious repprochement with Russia.
But far more important is the impending doom of humanity. As far as current, all-consuming U.S. politics is concerned, the Congressional Left is now an insane asylum. To achieve their goals, the Dems introduce psychotic skags as “witnesses” into their offensive maneuvers; one of their Negroes believes he is akin to “Spartacus” (an anti-Roman who lost a rebellion); never mind their underhanded instigation of violent tactics (the shooting of a Republican congressman, the “Anti-Fa” maniacs, the hounding of Republican senators and staff members out of restaurants and other places, the infiltration of Congressional hearings and Capitol corridors by screaming Leftist psychopaths; &c., &c.); and of course, there is the nonstop drivel spewed out by the Leftist billionaires controlling the mainstream media. For a presidential candidate, lately they proffered the gun moll, Hillary (“venimus, vidimus, iste mortuus est! — tee-hee-hee”) Clinton.
Whence all this mental derangement? Obviously, it plays well to the Democrat base, which consists largely of criminals, parasites, illegals, neurotics, self-deluders and bottom feeders of all sorts. But more importantly, the U.S. population at large is deteriorating genetically. And not only due to the importation of lower primates from outhouse countries. As Daniel Noah Halpern recently reported at https://www.gq.com/story/sperm-count-zero, the ubiquitous petroleum-derived plastics now poisoning the world are not just sterilizing the males of the world, they are also making them less male. (The male phenotype is derived from the female one in utero by means of increased testosterone.) So modern “males” are becoming feminized, homosexualized, and more “sensitive.” This is a major factor behind the obvious social changes in American and Western European society since 1950. Another possible consequence is the striking reversal of the numbers of males versus females in U.S. undergraduate schools in the past seven decades. In the 1950s, the preponderance of college students was male. Today it is just the reverse: females outnumber males considerably. While it is impossible to prove that a dysgenic component is operating here, the change is certainly consistent with the plastics-caused deterioration of maleness.
However, the hormone disruptors in plastics are also screwing up the estrogen in females and preventing full maturization. The end result, it is clear, must be the infantilization of the populace at large. Children scream, stomp up and down, and become violent when their demands are not met. And this is exactly what we are seeing in the Leftward drift of America and its vassals. Psychopathy is the future of America. This is the real reason Why People Refuse to Address the Idea That We’re Headed for Near-Term Societal Collapse — or, for that matter, why they refuse to address the real End of History.
GetAVasectomyAndLetTheHumanSpecieDie on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 2:57 am
L Wen an Asian Women describe the Western male feminization really well
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjVgoZnRRJU
Antius on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 5:22 am
Theedrich displays typical Yankee arrogance. Any country smaller than his must be pathetically weak and need Yankee help to survive. Britain doesn’t need to ‘rule the world’. We survived very well for centuries before America existed as any kind of global power. We can do it again. We have an internal market of 60million people and can trade and export like any other nation in the world. It is easy to forget that 50 years ago, we made practically everything we needed for ourselves. We produced our own TVs, computers, airliners, power stations, trains, cars, nuclear reactors – you name it. We do not need Yankee Big Brother or EUSSR.
On the subject of feminisation of men, there are other factors at work other than plastic pollution. Men are on average less physically active than 50 years ago, with more sedentary lives. This in itself reduces testosterone levels and will therefore negatively affect fertility. Also, average waistlines are growing, due to more sedentary lives and increasing sugar content of food. Fat is not simply a stored chemical, it is a hormonal tissue. It pumps out oestrogen, which reduces male fertility. High alcohol consumption damages fertility as well.
It is tempting to assume that our problems are a direct result of a single, dramatic nefarious factor. This is partly because it is more exciting and rousing to imagine that it is so. More to the point, it is then easy to imagine solving the problem simply by removing plastics, without doing the really difficult thing of completely changing the way we live. The reality is that male infertility is a result of an unsustainable lifestyle that is toxic to health. You can remove any number of undesirable chemicals without solving the problem. Men cannot go on living as they do now.
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 5:28 am
OPEC ‘powerless to prevent’ oil prices jumping toward $100 a barrel this year
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/01/oil-prices-opec-powerless-to-prevent-prices-surging-to-100-a-barrel.html?__source=sharebar|facebook&par=sharebar
Antius on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 5:31 am
The Russians roll out an effective airborne anti-satellite weapon.
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-01/mysterious-photo-sparks-theory-russia-has-developed-air-launched-satellite-killer
This is actually a remarkably easy thing to do. If the orbit of a satellite is mapped, it is relatively easy launching another object that is on a collision course. It doesn’t need to be big. At an orbital speed of 7.5km/s, a solid object weighing 100grams on a retrograde orbit has a lot of kinetic energy – as much stored energy as a kg of C4 explosive.
I AM THE MOB on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 5:35 am
DEMOCRAT/REPUBLICAN DIVIDE IS WORST IT’S EVER BEEN
https://msutoday.msu.edu/news/2018/democrat-republican-divide-is-worst-its-ever-been/
We are headed towards a civil war!
Antius on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 6:52 am
“Again, Britain is racially the most Marxist of them all.”
Cannot argue with that. I have often poured my endless frustration onto this board about the utter duplicity of the British government; its contempt for its own people and it’s continuing slide into totalitarianism. Marie LePen has the same concerns about the French state – it is a Western European thing, but I do think Britain is the worst of the bunch. The thing I fear most about leaving the EU is being at the untampered mercy of the British government.
“We all know that Britain was never in the EU for any other purpose than to try to blow it up from within.”
That is simply not true. The British Conservative leaning public, were opposed to an EU superstate that eroded national sovereignty because we didn’t want live in a western version of the USSR. No one wanted to blow anything up until it became clear that the EU had degenerated into a Marxist project for world government; whose open goal was to mongrelise the European nations. We voted leave because we could no longer tolerate being part of that.
“The right-wingers no longer want to leave; they think they can have it for themselves”
Too bad they couldn’t have pulled it off before we voted out. I think the white British public would have been much more comfortable in a nationalist EU with no immigration and more conservative values. The forces that led to Brexit are the same forces that led to the rise of the right in other European nations. Britain’s political system simply is not free enough to allow these forces a healthy political expression. They prefer to suppress and criminalise anyone that doesn’t buy into Marxist orthodoxy.
“Britain is simply too small to stand on its own feet. By distancing itself from Europe, it automatically has chosen to become a US subsidiary.”
It may turn out that way, especially given Britain’s political reality. But it need not. As I have said before, Britain has a large internal market and historical links to Canada, Australia and New Zealand. Collectively, that is a block of 130million people. About the same population as Russia and much wealthier.
Cloggie on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 7:03 am
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2018-09-12/currencies-the-euro-has-the-power-to-challenge-the-dollar
“The Euro Has the Power to Challenge the Dollar“
Growing U.S. unilateralism is an opportunity to end the greenback’s dominance.
Energy isn’t the only area where the euro could challenge the dollar. Collectively, the EU accounts for 15 percent of all international trade in goods, on par with the U.S. and China as a global trade participant. About 93 percent of U.S. trade is invoiced in dollars. If the EU managed to reach that proportion with the euro, it would mean 1.9 trillion euros ($2.2 trillion) a year in additional euro transactions at last year’s trade levels (less without the U.K., but still a mind-boggling amount).
For now, the euro is punching considerably below its weight. According to a European Central Bank report released in July, it has almost caught up to the dollar as a global payment currency, but it’s still far behind in other aspects of global prevalence.
A common capital market in Europe would have the depth to challenge the U.S. and to establish credible euro-denominated benchmarks.
It’s not impossible to tip the balance in the international monetary system away from the dollar, and it would be easier for the EU than for China, which is starting in a less advantageous position and is fearful of liberalizing its financial markets. European leaders concerned about President Donald Trump’s erratic behavior and the dangers of continued American dominance should listen to Juncker and the ECB and work on realizing the euro’s full potential.
Wow, note this is written by “a Bershidsky”. Bloomberg is continuously sending signals it no longer believes in their NWO.
Davy on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 7:08 am
neder, the Euro is teetering on the edge of failure with its simmering banking crisis and exits from all sides. You can crow all you like about the golden age of the Euro but reality is different.
Davy on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 7:09 am
Bill, did you catch this one:
“They Are Worried About Panic”: China Blocks Bad Economic News As Economy Slumps”
https://tinyurl.com/y792kpaz
China’s Shadow-banking system is collapsing (and with its China’s economic-fuel – the credit impulse), it’s equity market has become a slow-motion train-wreck, its economic data has been serially disappointing for two years, and its bond market is starting to show signs of serious systemic risk as corporate defaults in 2018 hit a record high. But, if you were to read the Chinese press, none of that would be evident, as The New York Times reports a government directive sent to journalists in China on Friday named six economic topics to be “managed,” as the long hand of China’s ‘Ministry of Truth’ have now reached the business media in an effort to censor negative news about the economy. The New York Times lists the topics that are to be “managed” as: Worse-than-expected data that could show the economy is slowing. Local government debt risks. The impact of the trade war with the United States. Signs of declining consumer confidence. The risks of stagflation, or rising prices coupled with slowing economic growth “Hot-button issues to show the difficulties of people’s lives.” The government’s new directive betrays a mounting anxiety among Chinese leaders that the country could be heading into a growing economic slump. Even before the trade war between the United States and China, residents of the world’s second-largest economy were showing signs of keeping a tight grip on their wallets. Industrial profit growth has slowed for four consecutive months, and China’s stock market is near its lowest level in four years.
Davy on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 7:14 am
“It Will End In Tears”: World Stocks, Euro Slide As Italian Contagion Spreads”
https://tinyurl.com/yaxfu9j8
“World stocks slumped, European assets sold off and the Euro dropped to a three week low on Tuesday after anti-euro comments from an Italian party official sent renewed shockwaves across Europe and the globe, and pushed Italy’s bond yields up to multi-year highs. Italian asset tumbled for a second day, after the economic head of the ruling League party and head of lower house budget committee – and a well-known euroskeptic – Claudio Borghi said that most of Italy’s problems could be solved by having its own currency”
“The single currency has been hurt not only by renewed redenomination fears as a result of Borghi’s comments, but also by concerns that a significant increase in the Italian budget will deepen Italy’s debt and deficit problems, and by extension the European Union’s. “The history of the euro zone tends to be one of great fudges – think of the case of Greece,” said David Keir, manager of the global income and growth fund at Saracen. “But I would caution against any wider systemic spreading. The reality is making kneejerk reactions to big political decisions can very much be the wrong thing to do.”
Antius on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 7:22 am
Cloggie, the last thing the export dominated German economy would want is anything that would push up the value of the Euro. Their economic model requires that the Euro remains cheap. If the Euro takes on the role of reserve currency it would involve considerable economic dislocation within the EU.
Cloggie on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 7:34 am
“Why did Britain join the EU? A new insight from economic history”
https://voxeu.org/article/britain-s-eu-membership-new-insight-economic-history
“Why did Britain join? For various reasons. Because De Gaulle left, the Commonwealth could not compete, Heath defeated Wilson, the free trade area integration model sunk. But above all, Britain joined because joining the European project was perceived to be a way to stop its relative economic decline. In 1950, UK’s per capita GDP was almost a third larger than the EU6 average; in 1973, it was about 10% below; it has been comparatively stable ever since. On this basis, joining the EU worked – it helped to halt Britain’s relative economic decline vis-à-vis the EU6. “
Davy opines: “Neder, the Euro is teetering on the edge of failure with its simmering banking crisis and exits from all sides. ”
Bloomberg begs to differ.
And there are no “exits on all sides”. It remains to be seen if even Britain will leave.
My advice to the EU: stop negotiating with a leaving member. Offer them three packages: WTO, Canada or Norway. What is good enough for top notch countries like Canada and Norway is good enough for the UK.
Oh and failing to pay 39 billion means a blockade until you have paid, which you will. We simply have the better cards.
Cloggie on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 7:44 am
“after the economic head of the ruling League party and head of lower house budget committee – and a well-known euroskeptic – Claudio Borghi said that most of Italy’s problems could be solved by having its own currency”
The Italians can of course reintroduce their shabby Lira and “solve problems” by printing deficits and reintroduce 10% inflation, which is an indirect tax on savings accounts, but they will soon find out that in international business they are stuck with the euro as nobody will accept Lira. Even Switzerland was forced to accept the euro as second currency.
Davy on Tue, 2nd Oct 2018 8:15 am
“Bloomberg begs to differ”
Got reference?
Just because the Euro has power does not mean it is healthy. Look at the dollar and its power and health. Look at the Yuan. You are so binary it is pitiful. I think that is a way to smoke out a fraud see how binary a person is. BTW, Bloomberg also opines on Euro problems. Bloomberg is a fiancial media site reporting financial news good and bad for investing. Neder, show me where they have discounted Italy and the problems they present to a united Europe and and a healthy Euro.