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World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 08:05:37

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dissident', 'B')illy's pontifications on poverty are totally worthless.


From what I can see, his foundation is for real and spending 5% of its worth every year. He's doing a lot for tuberculosis, tropical diseases, and HIV. The US government, thanks to George Bush, did the most to halt the global HIV pandemic.

Gates Foundation alone is doing more than most national governments.

Meanwhile, the Russian government and Russian philantrhopists (do the oligarchs give much charity?) are not doing enough in Russia:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')cientists in Siberia say they've discovered a new and extremely virulent strain of HIV in Russia.

Though rates of HIV infection have been falling worldwide, Eastern Europe and Central Asia remain the only regions on the planet where HIV prevalence is clearly "on the rise," says the United Nations. According to RIA Novosti, 52 percent "of the HIV-positive people that live across that area are in Russia."

...

Lack of funding for HIV prevention and low coverage of HIV treatment services are fueling the high rates of AIDS-related deaths and rise of HIV infections as well, says a 2012 U.N. fact sheet on the issue.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/21/new-hiv-russia_n_4138219.html


Gates foundation has given money to fight HIV and TB in Russia:
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/search#q/k=russia

But the Russian government seems to be fighting organizations that want to help, shutting down even HIV prevention information:

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Russia's Free Speech and Public Health Crackdown

the Russian authorities have taken what is an ongoing assault on HIV prevention to the next level by moving to silence public health advocates whose only infraction has been to spread life-saving information online and to criticize the government for its own failures.

Russia is home to one of the biggest populations of injecting drug users, and one of the fastest growing HIV epidemics in the world. It is estimated that there are just under two million injecting drug users in Russia. In some regions, more than 80 percent of people living with HIV in the country contracted the virus through injecting with contaminated equipment.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eka-iakobishvili/russias-free-speech-and-p_b_1265805.html


I'm not knocking Russia here, our president Reagan famously ignored HIV too -- but these problems don't get better when ignored. Infectious disease is a global problem, it's *infectious*, and evolves the more it spreads, so it's not okay for any nation to just ignore it and block outside help.

Somebody has to do something. At least Bill Gates is.
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Quinny » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 08:27:29

Bet those missionaries with their new gospel and way of life felt pretty good about themselves SS.

Bear in mind EdWeek are usually pretty pro Gates and hardly socialist!

http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2012/07/the_gates_foundations_leverage.html?intc=bs&cmp=SOC-SHR-GEN#.UuEGpcJsQ64.facebook
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 09:03:28

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Quinny', 'B')et those missionaries with their new gospel and way of life felt pretty good about themselves SS.

Bear in mind EdWeek are usually pretty pro Gates and hardly socialist!

http://blogs.edweek.org/teachers/living-in-dialogue/2012/07/the_gates_foundations_leverage.html?intc=bs&cmp=SOC-SHR-GEN#.UuEGpcJsQ64.facebook


I'll take a look at that. But my thing is, this total anti-Americanism and poo-pooing of anybody doing anything is just too much.

I'm just asking for perspective.

Do any of you care that a new super virulent strain of HIV has evolved in Russia? Because Russia is not doing enough about it? Nope. You don't care. Not enough to make a post about it, but Bill Gates' foundation is aware of it, ready to give money to do something about it, yet he's somehow a bad guy.

What about krokodil heroin, which started in Russia, and now people in frickin' Arizona are doing it -- the most horiffic drug mankind has ever thought up, that concoction is holy sh*t gruesome. 8O

You won't read about this in Russia Today or any of Putin's state media. But it's real. And what Russia does has a real impact on the rest of the world. Russia ignores that new heroin problem, it explodes, and sure enough now it's in the US and UK.

Russia cracks down on HIV awareness free speech, because its regime would rather sweep under the rug than look bad, and Russia isn't doing enough to contain the IV drug use and HIV spread, and sure enough now we got new virulent strains evolving.

What if HIV evolves to airborne, in Russia, while you guys are going on about how bad Monsanto and Bill Gates are?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]HIV Epidemic Plagues Russia as Government Rejects Prevention Methods

Hidden from the outside world and abetted by policies that critics say promote infections rather than curbing them, the HIV scourge plaguing Russia is one that even the poorest countries have begun to subdue.

As Putin puts the final touches on preparations for the $48 billion Winter Olympics in Sochi and strives to expand Russian influence in international affairs, 1.3 million of his countrymen have the life-threatening virus that causes AIDS, according to the Russian Federal AIDS Center.

Unchecked Outbreak

Among the top 20 global economies, only India, with a population almost nine times bigger than Russia’s 143 million, has more people living with HIV, according to the Joint United Nations Programme on HIV/AIDS, known as UNAIDS, and the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Image

Forbidden Treatment

Russia trails in curtailing HIV infections because it forbids or refuses to fund approaches that have worked elsewhere
, says Michel Kazatchkine, the UN secretary-general’s special envoy on HIV/AIDS in Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

The country bans methadone, a treatment the World Health Organization recommends to curb heroin use and thus prevent infection from contaminated needles, under a 1998 law that prohibits addictive drugs.

“There is a climate of suspicion about everything that comes from the West -- and the U.S. particularly,” Kazatchkine says. “I don’t see much progress coming in Russia unless it changes quite radically. It’s so shocking. The nation’s HIV policies result in death and suffering that could be avoided.”

Injecting Krokodil

Pokrovsky, the Russian AIDS center director, disagrees. He says anti-drug efforts don’t stem HIV. A medical doctor who diagnosed the first HIV case in the then-Soviet Union in 1985, Pokrovsky, 59, has fought the virus for three decades.

He says efforts to stop heroin abuse in the 2000s prove his point. A government crackdown pushed addicts onto intoxicants such as krokodil, which users inject more frequently than heroin, increasing infection risks. The concoction is based on the pain reliever codeine mixed with gasoline, iodine, acid and phosphorus, according to the New York State Office of Alcoholism and Substance Abuse Services.

Russia in 2012 sought to stamp out krokodil by making codeine prescription only. Users switched to other homemade mixtures, and some now shoot up eyedrops. Drug abusers are frequently turned away from hospitals and often arrested and imprisoned, charities that work to counter HIV say.

“These repressive measures are the main means of combating drugs here in Russia and the main measure to prevent HIV, too,” Pokrovsky says.

‘Closed Door’

Russia has also stymied international aid groups that fight HIV. In 2009, the government was set to take over and expand programs, including needle distribution, sponsored by the Geneva-based Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria. The Health Ministry backed out, leaving the programs unfunded, says Nicolas Cantau, the fund’s project manager for Eastern Europe and Central Asia.

“Suddenly, everything was wrong,” recalls Cantau, who says the challenge was ideological, not medical. “Everything that the Global Fund had supported was not good; harm reduction didn’t work. We ran into a closed door.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-01-13/russian-hiv-surge-shows-scourge-sochi-games-swagger-can-t-mask.html


Quinny, this "everything the US does or any American does is bad and ulterior motivated" attitude is what is causing people to die and a new HIV pandemic to go unchecked in Russia. Russia shutting the world out and not cooperating just causes its problems to spill over here too.

A new strain of HIV does not care what country it spreads to. Infectious disease doesn't have an ideology, or an opinion about Americans or Putin.

After reading the above article, now I know how this krokodil thing got started -- they wouldn't listen to the rest of the world, refuse to do methadone treatment, and THAT is what created krokodil as addicts resorted to that and NOW that crap is in Arizona, United Kingdom, and just googling news I see it's spread to Mexico now too.

But nevermind, let's get back to how bad Bill Gates is, for donating money to fight infectious disease.
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 09:23:19

6, can you please take your Russophobia elsewhere?
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby ROCKMAN » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 09:44:43

Six - Fair enough. Bill is spreading it around much to his credit. But makes you wonder if he's swallowing his own Kool-Aid when it comes to predicting the end of poor countries in the near future.
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Sixstrings » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 12:02:52

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', '6'), can you please take your Russophobia elsewhere?


Okay.

(edit: rant deleted, OK sg I'll get off it but I'm right about Putin and HIV in Russia and how their government has handled that, and they ought to let charities in to help out, and for goodness sake do not shut down HIV prevention groups)


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'S')ix - Fair enough. Bill is spreading it around much to his credit. But makes you wonder if he's swallowing his own Kool-Aid when it comes to predicting the end of poor countries in the near future.


The world IS getting less poor, and the West is getting more poor, by the way. That's globalism.

Okay about wealth.. the thing is, a lot of problems get better if the world's poor get less poor. People have fewer children. More educated. And less spread of infectious disease.

He's probably unaware of the fact that people are getting so darn poor right here in America.

The man is a mega billionaire. Well-intentioned.. bound to be out of touch.. but still, doing some good for people around the world (I think, anyway).

I'll have to look more into this, but thing is, if his foundation is giving 5% of its value annually then that's good. If the foundation makes money from investments then that's just rolling back into the foundation -- this will continue after he is gone one day. It's like Rockefeller foundation and all of those, they really do some good, they fund libraries and PBS and all sorts of things.
Last edited by Sixstrings on Fri 24 Jan 2014, 12:39:37, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Plantagenet » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 12:16:27

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('ROCKMAN', 'S')ix - Fair enough. Bill is spreading it around much to his credit. But makes you wonder if he's swallowing his own Kool-Aid when it comes to predicting the end of poor countries in the near future.


No. Bill is aware of the research of prof Rosling which shows that all countries, with a few exceptions, got progressively richer and richer over the last 190 years

It's prof roslings koolaid
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 19:50:44

On the one hand you have to give Gates credit for the humanitarian work he has done.

On the other hand my minds eye goes to Al Bartlett's chart, the one with all good things on one side and bad things on the other. If you understand Bartlett's chart then you understand how Gates is really just making a bad situation worse.

To be a harsh critic I say he is picking things that are easy to do, where it is clear he will be lauded.

If he were a truly great man he could divert some of his resources to determining how we can have a sustainable world and human population and how to transition to such a state. That work would not be popular, but might be useful.

Then again, maybe he is doing that and I just don't know, or it is anonymous. I just don't know of any research in this direction to credit to anyone.

BTW, I make similar criticisms of Obama.
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Newfie » Fri 24 Jan 2014, 22:46:41

OK, so i make the above post and this article pops up on the front page.

But I can't make sense of this. Double speak or am I daft?

http://www.occupycorporatism.com/bill-g ... opulation/

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n an interview with media, Gates explained: “Capitalism did not eradicate smallpox. It just doesn’t know how. Polio eradication is a work in progress, but it’s not being done by markets. So the childhood death reduction, the nutrition improvements, those are overwhelmingly aid-driven.”

When asked about the BMGF efforts to deal with “overpopulation”, Gates replied: “It’s a huge impediment in convincing rich-world donors that they should feel good about these health improvements. Our foundation focused in the 1990s on reproductive health. We weren’t nearly as big then. But we wanted to make contraception available because we thought population growth would make everything so difficult, whether it’s the environment or feeding kids or stability. It was only when we found out about this phenomenal connection between improved health and reduced population growth that we felt: Great, let’s just make the foundation as big as possible to go after these health problems. Because before then the commonsense thing was more kids would make these problems less tractable.”

Gates continued: “I don’t think people like to say out loud that we want to let these kids die because there are too many of them. But by choosing not to get into health in our early days I was a victim of the myth around overpopulation. But there is just phenomenally good news here. The world’s population will peak. Now, we do have huge population growth in places where we don’t want it, like Yemen and Pakistan and parts of Africa, where we don’t have the resources to really help those people. So we need to get serious about figuring out how to make sure there’s relative health and satisfaction in those places.”

The justification for Gates’ focus on reducing the world’s population was invoked in this comment: “We won’t need to answer the question of how much innovation allows us to support 20 or 30 billion people on the planet. It’s possible some miracle like reinventing photosynthesis could do it. We invest in miracles like that. But the amount of innovation it would take to support 20 billion or more is pretty phenomenal and would likely not show up in time. So the fact that the population will peak is great news. We’ve already had the largest birth cohort — the most children born in a year. We’re past the peak on that. We’ll probably only have to support 10 to 11 billion. Now we still need to raise food production and avoid climate change. And when people get richer we have to worry about things like diabetes. So I’m not saying fulfilling the development agenda makes the world all good. But in terms of injustice and equity, doubling down to finish the development agenda should be the top priority.”
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 25 Jan 2014, 04:02:21

Sure, Pakistan, Bangladesh, the MENA et al are all just waiting for Bill's free condom and BC pills stores! Free vasectomy anyone? How about an abortion! Who wants to volunteer to work in birth control in Jihadiland?
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Quinny » Sat 25 Jan 2014, 04:05:53

Good work in Agriculture - partnering with Monsanto
Good work in Health - partnering with Drug companies....

Gates - Promoting the Capitalist Dream!

As you've brought it up 6. How many people in Russia were living with AIDS / HIV when it was communist?
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 25 Jan 2014, 12:46:03

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('SeaGypsy', 'S')ure, Pakistan, Bangladesh, the MENA et al are all just waiting for Bill's free condom and BC pills stores! Free vasectomy anyone? How about an abortion! Who wants to volunteer to work in birth control in Jihadiland?


Of course they are not waiting for it. That is why it is both important and hard. What he is doing is pandering to the masses, and (I suspect)to his out sized ego.

Great men are great because the do hard things.
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby SeaGypsy » Sat 25 Jan 2014, 18:51:58

Widespread contraception isn't just hard for these areas it's impossible. Anyone can say they need it, nothing great in that. Nobody can lay out a patch to achieving it, so where is the 'greatness' again?
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby Newfie » Sat 25 Jan 2014, 20:36:23

It lies in working on a problem that seems intractable.

Gates is a master at marketing, use that skill set.

I didn't say it was possible.

I think its shallow to laud him for grabbing low hanging fruit.

Two quotes from Churchill come to mind.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') am an optimist. It does not seem too much use being anything else.

The price of greatness is responsibility.
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby FarQ3 » Mon 27 Jan 2014, 18:48:22

I wonder how you can say that a poor country has got wealthier?

If 1% of that poor country get extremely wealthy and 99% of that same country get extremely poor I guess the average wealth can still increase. So one must ask what is the definition that Gates is using?
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Re: World's Richest Man just a Useful Idiot?

Unread postby PrestonSturges » Fri 31 Jan 2014, 11:59:15

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Plantagenet', 'I') saw Bill Gates interviewed about this just yesterday on PBS.

Gates is just repeating what Prof. Hans Rosling says.

Hans Rosling TED talk on poverty

Rosling's data shows that almost all poor countries are getting richer and richer since 1820, and if present trends continue they'll all be pretty well off by 2050.


Straight line extrapolations are always fun. Based on what was happening in the 1990s we should all be Century 21 real estate agents married to lawyers, but that didn't happen.
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