[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', '
')There are very real reasons to be concerned about our future but at this stage there is no point in panicking. There are many outstanding professionals working on the above problems. I'm merely reporting developments when find them. Please calm down.

[Graeme]

Mos, This thread is about energy and climate not politics and sustainablity. Discussions about the latter belong in the Geopolitical and Economic Forums. Don't you agree?

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'A')aahh. OK we got the oil nailed or so it seems. Never mind all the other shit that goes into my trendy lady pulling downtown apartment upwind from mall utopia. We got the oil. Lots of it it seems

Now hows about the AGW from all the shit we're, 6 billion of us, gunna put out from that oil. Hey! Never mind. Mebbe some nice person will invent us out of a fcukked up earth. On the other hand, this AGW stuffs all a commie plot, innit?

[americandream]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'M')os, This thread is about energy and climate not politics and sustainablity. Discussions about the latter belong in the Geopolitical and Economic Forums. Don't you agree?

[Graeme]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('OilFinder2', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'A')aahh. OK we got the oil nailed or so it seems. Never mind all the other shit that goes into my trendy lady pulling downtown apartment upwind from mall utopia. We got the oil. Lots of it it seems

Now hows about the AGW from all the shit we're, 6 billion of us, gunna put out from that oil. Hey! Never mind. Mebbe some nice person will invent us out of a fcukked up earth. On the other hand, this AGW stuffs all a commie plot, innit?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'T')he reason you piss people on here is because many of them have seen the problem and you and Graeme are not addressing them. Instead you peddle false hope.

Renewables are fine, our problem however is our system. It's premised on infinite growth on a finite planet.

[mos6507]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Graeme', 'M')os, This thread is about energy and climate not politics and sustainablity. Discussions about the latter belong in the Geopolitical and Economic Forums. Don't you agree?

[americandream]

OF2 and Graeme

Listen the both of you. Simply convince me as to how we are going to FULLY resource a renewable capitalism and I'm gone. I don't want hope, I stopped dating her ages ago. Just give me some scientific its happening now stuff.

Like you know, so and so has invented a technique to convert sand into finite resources as they fall into short supply will do just fine.

If you don't, I''m gonna pound you're ass until you stop peddling dope...oops, Im mean hope.

[copious.abundance]

americandream, I'm not sure what you're asking. Would nuclear fusion do? There are many threads here on that. How about nuclear fission? Lots of threads on that, too. Solar? This forum is filled with threads on that. Or, are solar, fusion, fission and the like "dope" instead of "hope?" I'm not even sure what you think would be "hope" instead of "dope," so I do not know how to answer your question.

[Graeme]

OK, I can get you started. I'm a novice although I'm interested in this topic. I've started threads in the Open and Economic Forums on sustainability. The literature on this topic is vast. I've read books by Paul Hawken and Amory Lovins. Try finding references by Herman Daly. Google economic sustainability. Hopefully, these will wet your appetite. Cheers.

[americandream]

Do me a favour..the two of you. Quit trying to flog this dog with one fix remedies. You might want to add some qualifier to these sorts of postings in future Graeme rather than leave one with the impression that you have found the holy grail.

Neither of you guys have the foggiest notion as to where we will be in 2020 let alone put this gobshite out.

I'm outta here.

[americandream]

Oh yeah...I'm a green capitalist a cruisin down the highway in mah NG hummer and a munchin on mah organic Chinese apple.

[yeahbut]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('americandream', 'R')emembers recent New Zealand history when we ripped up our entire CNG network nationwide as it was not financially viable for the petrol companies to operate.

[Tanada]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('TheDude', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Tanada', 'A')nd the proportion of the population commuting more than 100 miles each way to work on any given day is what exactly?

[Starvid]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')hy anyone would spend over an hour every day trapped in a mobile metal box is beyond the psychology I understand.

[TheDude]

R-Squared Energy Blog: How Much Natural Gas to Replace Gasoline?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'H')ow Much Do We Need?

The U.S. currently consumes 390 million gallons of gasoline per day. (Source: EIA). A gallon of gasoline contains about 115,000 BTUs. (Source: EPA). The energy content of this much gasoline is equivalent to 45 trillion BTUs per day. The energy content of natural gas is about 1,000 BTUs per standard cubic foot (scf). Therefore, to replace all gasoline consumption would require 45 billion scf per day, or 16.4 trillion scf per year. Current U.S. natural gas consumption is 23 trillion scf per year (Source: EIA). Therefore, replacing all gasoline consumption with natural gas would require 39.4 trillion scf per year, an increase in natural gas consumption of 71% over present usage. Assuming for the sake of argument that the 2,074 trillion standard cubic feet cited in the study is accurate, and that the gas is economically recoverable, that is enough gas for 53 years of combined current natural gas consumption and gasoline consumption.

We can also calculate in terms of oil imports. Right now the U.S. imports about 13 million barrels per day of all petroleum products. A barrel of oil contains around 5.8 million BTUs, but oil only makes up 10 million of the 13 million barrel per day figure. Other imports include things like gasoline (4.8 million BTUs/bbl) and ethanol (3.2 million BTUs/bbl). Scanning the list of imports, I probably won't be too far off the mark to presume that the average BTU value of those 13 million bpd of imports is about 5.4 million BTUs/bbl. On an annual basis, this amounts to 25.6 trillion scf, an increase over current natural gas usage of 111%. Going back to the 2,074 trillion scf from the study, this would be enough to displace imports of all petroleum products (again, at current usage rates and not factoring in declining U.S. oil production) for 43 years.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')herefore, to replace all gasoline consumption would require 45 billion scf per day, or 16.4 trillion scf per year

[TheDude]

Linked in the Dave Cohen article I posted today: Chapter 17a: Peak Oil - Natural Gas Vehicles—how much can they reduce oil imports? | Forums at Chris Martenson

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'E')mployees who drive the small CNG cars have learned from unpleasant experience not to venture
onto a freeway with less than a half tank of gas. The gauge can plunge to “E” with alarming swiftness.
Stranded employees have no recourse but to call our garage for help. The garage cannot simply
send out a pickup with a gallon of gasoline, for they are not equipped to dispense CNG. They must
send a wrecker to tow the car to the fueling station. So it goes with CNG vehicles.

Long-haul truckers, whose livelihood depends on continual travel pulling full loads, do not want to
worry about making it to the next fueling station; few wreckers can tow a fully-loaded 18-wheeler. Nor
do truckers want to surrender 25% of precious cargo space to CNG tanks.

If our leaders are serious about displacing diesel fuel with natural gas, LNG is the logical direction for
future long-haul trucking. But LNG has its caveats. The existing LNG fueling stations scattered
around the country require highly-specialized, energy-intensive refrigeration and compression
equipment to chill the gas to -260 deg F and compress it to high pressure to liquefy it. But extensive expansion of LNG stations may not be economically feasible considering that the special equipment
might cost $1 million a pop(2). Most refueling stations take LNG deliveries by tanker truck. Truckers,
in turn, need insulated, high-pressure tanks on their rigs to maintain the temperature and pressure of
LNG. Rigs need roughly twice the tank volume to store LNG vs. diesel for the same driving range.

[copious.abundance]

If CNG cars started selling well, they would also build more CNG stations, which would make that issue less dire. And as I said before, if they became popular enough they would start designing cars around larger gas tanks, which would help solve the problem of short driving ranges.

Another non-issue.

BTW, speaking of that 8-9 additional Tcf production needed each year to fuel half of US vehicles, somebody has already forecast just that amount:


http://www.cleanskies.org/upload/MediaF ... cippt2.pdf

[TheDude]

Not to be confused with the Clear Skies Act, that bone the Bush White House threw to coal companies.

Where was that graph published?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'A')nother non-issue.