[Aaron]

What is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

2 men enter, 1 man leaves.

As if a million voices cried out... & were suddenly silenced.

It's a big shit sandwich, and we all get to take a bite.

Pick your favorite scenario and run with it.

Critical resource shortages can mean only one thing...

either:

Peace & cooperation as mankind emerges into the sunlight of our new BioFueled future.

or

War

[pea-jay]

I am a rosy doomer over the long haul. In the short term I think I am closer to an armaggedonite.

[Jack]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('The_Toecutter', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'B')ut the old ways can be good too - who can argue with a solid hickory nightstick, wielded with a certain joie de vivre?

[dinopello]

Flip-flopper in part for sure. Other than being sure things will change, the exact direction is an uncertainty. Economite sounds reasonable, but at heart a Rosy Doomer hoping for a renaissance of sorts after the realty sets in. Historian in part but not the way described. Do we have a richer society and culture now with cheap energy or before without? Why, did we build and make things in the past that lasted for generations and now most things are pieces of crap. My biggest fear is that things will gradually get worse and we adapt to them, much like the lobster in the boil pot.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture, in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.

John Adams, letter to Abigail Adams, 1780

[Bas]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I') bet if these same optomistic people had lived through WWII they would not be singing the same tune.

[Bas]

I neither believe the big doom scenarios nor the rosy cooperation scenarios.

But if there were riots and some anarchy it would be in the US, just look at the diffrence in attitude between americans and europeans on this board, speaks for itself....

[julianj]

And I thought I was posting a humourous thread, to give everybody a laugh.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')hat's an eye opener and no mistake, Mr Frodo

[Bas]

humerous LOL..naaahh..we really have our fair share of hardcore armegeddonites here and you know it!!!

[julianj]

Ohh...er...Zeitgeist.

There's something Rorshach-blot like about the categories I invented, but I got a bit of a shiver when people fitted into the types; Aaron is an economite. I wasn't surprised that Jack is a Stalag Tight - although I'm sure he will only use free market batons from properly coppiced sustainable trees and Ludi is a bit Rosy.

Wow, that was odd!!!

I'm not sure whether this was a joke that backfired, or humour stimulating people...

[Jack]

Well, Julianj - you know the old saying. "Know the truth, and the truth will set you free."

The only problem is, no one ever said it would make you happy.

[julianj]

Bas: Yes of course, I know there are Armageddonites here. That's why I chose to take the mickey out of them. I'd say that was satire.

[Njegosh]

the thing is:
in the dead of night when i'm staring at the ceiling and submit myself to yet another bout of ruthless introspection, i actually hope it's an armagedon scenario.
to me the brutishness of that scenario is still preferable to the slow mind-death and degradation of the human race that a massive authoritarian Stalag Tight would induce.
i will not go quetly go into the night.
And if i must it will be with a bang and not a whimper.

[k_semler]

I would say I am a cross between a (millitant) Armageddonite, and a Stalag Tight. However, I think the federalies will ship me off to guantanamo bay, or just eliminate me when TSHTF. Beccause of the messages I have posted on the internet for all to see, I would consider me a threat. Especially if I were reviewing my online purchases lately. But anyhow, if I do not get eliminated, I hope to be FAR FAR way from all civilisation, at least to the point to where it takes 2 days by mule to get to the nearest road. I would like to disappear completely from socieity. Are there any temperate climates that it is possible to disappear into the woods? Just the thought of 8 months of snow in Idaho kind of sucks. If it were only 1 month in snow, I could handle it without cabin fever. Are there any areas like that?

[Jack]

Well, k_semler...you say you want to disappear. One sort is easy, the other harder.

The hard type means finding an isolated area where there aren't a lot of people. In this overcrowded world, I don't know where that would be. Even the national parks are overrun.

But the other sort is easier. Look carefully as you go about your day tomorrow. There are lots of invisible people out there - bus boys, cooks in inexpensive restaurants, yardmen, and the list goes on. We have a broad underground economy filled with people that no one notices; so, if one truly wishes to disappear, then becoming one of those folks is an answer.

I rather doubt that the Federales would regard you as a threat; more likely, you'd be a potential asset that could be turned. I also doubt that your online purchases are more problematic than mine; I annoyed the Nuclear Regulatory Commission several times to get what I wanted.

And they still haven't come aft... 8ovao9uba=0d HELP!!!!

[Ayoob]

Armageddon It!

Most of the factories in Chongjin, a former industrial port, are rusting into ruin. Those still operating can barely pay salaries; the average worker's wage amounts to $1 per month at current exchange rates.

Even with international aid, many people go to bed wondering whether they will eat the next day. Residents, along with officials of the United Nations World Food Program, say food shortages have grown worse again in the last year.

"Maybe people are not dying today out in the streets like they were before," said a coal miner who lives in Chongjin, "but they are still dying — just quietly in their homes."

Peak oil visits North Korea TODAY... read it and weep, weaklings.

Seo could tell when a pupil was in trouble. His hair would turn dry and yellowish, and his eyes would sink into their sockets. At recess, while the better-fed children ran and squealed, the hungry child would lie on a mat. Sometimes the child would flop over in his chair during a lesson, cheek pressed against the desktop.

"One girl I remember used to be pretty as a doll, with black eyes and long lashes," Seo said. "But her ribs showed, and her belly was swollen like one of those Somalian kids. She would doze in class. I remember I once picked up her head off the desk and looked at her face. It was yellow, as though she were jaundiced, and her eyes were half-closed."

The girl stopped coming to class. Seo assumes she eventually died of starvation. Others dropped out, in what became a pattern.

"The first time I saw a dead body, I shuddered with fear. But with time, you get used to it. You become … insensitive," Seo said.

-------------------------------------------------------------

You don't have to wait to see what will happen when this comes to visit you in your country, your state, your town, your neighborhood, your living room... you can see examples of what IS happening right now, today, in this very same world you live in.

These are real people, just like you and me, and they're starving to death today.

On that note, I'm going to hop on my new bike and ride down to Trader Joe's and pick up a bottle of two buck chuck... damn good, if you ask me... and get ready to meet a couple of friends tonight for a drink and a laugh.

[k_semler]

I already fit the second definition. I work in laundry all day. Most of the day, I am standing in a 4'x6' area folding clothes. 90% of the work day, I am in the laundry room by myself with no company except for my walkman. I want to be at the point where the federalies could not track me down even if they tried to. I wan to be classified as a "missing person presumed dead", but be perfectly healthy, and 100% free. I want to have no traceable identifier back to me. Also, would these be a problem:

The Encyclopedia of Combat Techniques, (on order now)
Special Forces Guerrilla Warfare Manual, (on order now)
Special Forces Handbook, (on order now)
Special Forces Operational Techniques (FM 31-20), (on order now)
Small Unit Leadership : A Commonsense Approach, (on order now)
U.S. Army Ranger Handbook SH 21-76 (April 2000), (on order now)
US Army Manual --Survival, Evasion, Escape: FM 21-76, (on order now)
20 copies of the US Constitution+Declaration of Indepedence, (already in library, a few hidden)
The Making of the Atomic Bomb, (already in library)
Dark Sun: The making of the Hydrogen Bomb, (alredy in library)
The Federalist Papers, (already in library)
The Anti-federalist papers, (already in library)
Smith & Robertson's Businuss Law 2000 ed., (already in library)
1984, (already in library)
Brave New World, (already in library)
Animal Farm, (already in library)
Farenhiet 911, (already in library)
Blood And Honor, (already in library)
Bicycle Maintanance and repair 2003 edition, (already in library)


Will there be no problems with these?

[Jack]

Honestly, k_semler, I don't think so. Really, truly, I don't think so.

I'll give you a real world example of something that DID get a person noticed.

He opened a "chemical supply house". He then created videotapes showing how to make bombs and detonators, and which included a demonstration of a land mine he had created. As if that weren't enough, he marketed the videotape and offered to sell the chemicals. By the way, he didn't use safe methods in making his bombs.

Yes, he absolutely got noticed.

If you wanted dangerous reading material, you could always check out some of the various journals of toxicology - they have full discussions of the toxic effects of a variety of substances, some with complete lab procedures to create a variety of quite dangerous materials. But notice that such materials aren't even on the radar screen. One could subscribe to the journal, if they wanted to.

One might have a small potential for problems if you had a semi-automatic weapon AND a book or manual that gave specific instructions for conversion of that firearm to select fire or fully automatic operation. I don't recall the exact statute/regulation on that one....

If a person attempted to purchase any of a variety of precursor chemicals or lab supplies appropriate for the production of controlled substances (i.e., drugs) or poisons - particularly nerve gas - the lab supply house is required to report it to the feds.

But you can surely see that the things that get one into trouble tend to be far outside the norm.

[k_semler]

OK, cool. At least I have little to worry about then. I just want to know tactics to use in the event that they are needed, and the IED reciepe that I posted 2 days ago is plenty powerful for me. Anything more powerful than that, and I don't think I would safely be able to detonate the device. I really have no desire to know biowarfare manufacturing. What would a civilian fighting force need with those? That is very dangerous, and the lethality of the concoction, (and whom it is lethal to), depends greatly upon prevailing weather conditions.

At least doing it the conventional way, you have more control over what happens as a result from your actions. As far as the SA weapon posession and FA instructions, I cannot confirm or deny that I have any of the questionable materials in my posession. All I will say is that I know how to tear down my weapons down to the individual components.

[Jack]

You might find the BATF Q&A sheet on explosives of interest:

FAQ

Also, there's an interesting website at: Fort Liberty

[Macsporan]

Economite/Stalagtite lightly garnished with a touch of Historian.

Seasoned with Flip-flop.