[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

Use the force Luke... and don't forget your lightsabre!

[Omnitir]

Firstly I must remind you that my suggestions of future space industrialism were assuming that a hypothetical technological solution to our energy problems solved the issue of peak oil. That’s what this thread is about after all – what would happen if PO were adverted. I’m not tying to claim that “space exploration will save the day!”, that we can “simply” all leave Earth and go live in space. I can’t believe that anyone would be that stupid to suggest such a thing is possible (ATM).

So my main argument is that with some hypothetical free energy, we would continue on with our space explorations and it would just be a matter of time until the bulk of humanity was living off-world. It may take 50 to 100 years, it may take longer, but my argument stands. With free energy, humanity would eventually leave the Earth and it will be for the better.

Is that so hard to believe and to understand?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Battle_Scarred_Galactico', '
')will you please lay out your amazing space colonization plans in practical terms

[Doly]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '
')Perhaps the most sensible course of action would have been to take advantage of the cheap fuel in the decades past in the pursuit of some such space-industrial revolution. If we continued to push forwards after the Apollo moon landings, then maybe today we would have some sustainable level of space industrialism operating and supplying the Earth with most of it’s needs. Then PO wouldn’t really matter.

[Battle_Scarred_Galactico]

Well, I'll agree some of it is possible on that huge IF factor of finding a miracle energy source (which isn't very likley). I still think you wouldn't get very far though, the Sun is so vital you wouldn't be able to leave it behind.

I think this is all mental masterbation any way, as we both agree humanity has squandered it's chances.

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Doly', '
')you believe that it's at least theoretically possible to provide energy to the Earth from some resource in space, with an EROI as good or better than oil. What specific resource were you thinking about?

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '
')Perhaps the most sensible course of action would have been to take advantage of the cheap fuel in the decades past in the pursuit of some such space-industrial revolution. If we continued to push forwards after the Apollo moon landings, then maybe today we would have some sustainable level of space industrialism operating and supplying the Earth with most of it’s needs. Then PO wouldn’t really matter. But instead funding was cut to space programs essentially because it was achieving poor television ratings. So instead we invested our one time gift of cheap energy into large cars, fast food and bad television, and this is where it got us. This is the reason that arrogant attitudes towards space exploration and science tick me off: it was the only chance we had to truly prosper. Instead we’ll be living in a new dark age.

One could argue that we have the mass public’s lack of interest in science to thank for our current predicament.

[Triffin]

How to avoid PO ..

1) Admit we have a problem
2) Engage all governments
3) Define the problem
4) Adopt a plan
5) Implement the plan

Triff ..

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '
')A while ago Bush had another of his "visions", a manned expedition to Mars. Sounds like this would be like Apollo: "We came, we saw, we came back".

What do you think of this?

[PeakKYJelly]

It would be strange if the people on the moon living off the land looked out one day and saw the PO Nuke Wars begin, and watch the blue Earth turn into a black marble. Then they'd have to start a civilization by themselves on the moon. I wonder if they could do it?

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '
')Returning man to the Moon however is something that is achievable in the short term, and has numerous payoffs. NASA states that the main reason for the Moon missions is essentially to practice living, working and practicing science on Mars, which is sensible, but since we know the likelihood of any manned Mars mission ever occurring, this point is mute. However, developing the skills and technology to live and work on the Moon will have payoffs if we are going to attempt to exploit space in the remaining time we have.

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'W')e need the Chinese to announce a Lunar colony project.

[Dezakin]

Ah, so when oil gets expensive, we wont just use the cheapest alternatives and continue economic growth as we have for the past several centuries?

Why exactly is economic growth impossible without oil? We've seen all the arguments that without oil energy will be more expensive, but none that indicate it will be prohibitively expensive. You can drive an industrial economy on nuclear or solar power.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Omnitir', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Keith_McClary', 'W')e need the Chinese to announce a Lunar colony project.

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', 'A')h, so when oil gets expensive, we wont just use the cheapest alternatives and continue economic growth as we have for the past several centuries?

Why exactly is economic growth impossible without oil? We've seen all the arguments that without oil energy will be more expensive, but none that indicate it will be prohibitively expensive. You can drive an industrial economy on nuclear or solar power.

[Dezakin]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')uppose I am living in an air-conditioned McMansion in the suburbs and driving to work and everywhere else in a SUV and eating produce jetted in from the other hemisphere. How much will it cost to maintain this lifestyle on nuclear or solar power compared to oil?

[Keith_McClary]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Dezakin', '')$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'S')uppose I am living in an air-conditioned McMansion in the suburbs and driving to work and everywhere else in a SUV and eating produce jetted in from the other hemisphere. How much will it cost to maintain this lifestyle on nuclear or solar power compared to oil?

[Omnitir]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Triffin', '
')How to avoid PO ..

1) Admit we have a problem
2) Engage all governments
3) Define the problem
4) Adopt a plan
5) Implement the plan

Triff ..

[Sixstrings]

These world of warcraft virtual gold bots sure dig out some interesting old threads.

So.. in 2005 this thread was started with the question "what if peak oil never happens?" Funny, it HAPPENED one year later. After which everything else began to fall into place.. world financial crisis, recession, depression, bond crises going on right now, inflation on the way.. what do the cornies think, all this just coincidentally followed global peak oil?

[Xenophobe]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakKYJelly', 'W')hat if a more efficient technology allows the extraction of oil in all the quantities we need, and while this is happening, a new technology is invented to replace oil as an energy source, so by the time oil starts to fade away, we are already covered? How would all the PeakOilers on here react?

[diemos]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('PeakKYJelly', 'W')hat if a more efficient technology allows the extraction of oil in all the quantities we need, and while this is happening, a new technology is invented to replace oil as an energy source, so by the time oil starts to fade away, we are already covered? How would all the PeakOilers on here react?