PeakOil is You
What does doom mean to you?
Re: What does doom mean to you?
by Ludi » Sat 01 Dec 2007, 11:19:06
But Quinn makes some pretty good arguments, I think. I've yet to see them successfully refuted.
http://www.ishmael.org/welcome.cfm
The sabertoothed cats who wiped out the giant predatory birds of North America weren't civiized. That doesn't change the argument that civilization is the most damaging way of life invented by man.
http://www.ishmael.org/welcome.cfm
The sabertoothed cats who wiped out the giant predatory birds of North America weren't civiized. That doesn't change the argument that civilization is the most damaging way of life invented by man.
- Ludi
Re: What does doom mean to you?
by like_the_dinosaurs » Mon 14 Jan 2008, 06:29:24
The farther you look, the more cloudy it becomes.
I'm a doomer.
I agree with most of what has been said in this forum.
I also think that it's pointless to pinpoint what doom is
by definition. If only 3 billion people die in the coming
decades, seems pretty bad to me.
I'm a doomer.
I agree with most of what has been said in this forum.
I also think that it's pointless to pinpoint what doom is
by definition. If only 3 billion people die in the coming
decades, seems pretty bad to me.
"The elite DO believe they are worshipping and are being directed by demon creatures." ALEX JONES
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Re: What does doom mean to you?
by steam_cannon » Mon 14 Jan 2008, 15:34:13
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('like_the_dinosaurs', 'T')he farther you look, the more cloudy it becomes.
I'm a doomer.
I agree with most of what has been said in this forum.
I also think that it's pointless to pinpoint what doom is
by definition. If only 3 billion people die in the coming
decades, seems pretty bad to me.
Yeah, kind of reminds me of those old style college entrance lectures. Look to your left, look to your right, 2 out of 3 of you won't be here for graduation. And if you're saying "no way dude", you're probably one of the two...I'm a doomer.
I agree with most of what has been said in this forum.
I also think that it's pointless to pinpoint what doom is
by definition. If only 3 billion people die in the coming
decades, seems pretty bad to me.
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steam_cannon - Expert
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Re: What does doom mean to you?
by Dan_Browne » Fri 08 Feb 2008, 10:52:29
My own personal doom:
Fast doom:
The economy tanks, exporters shut off exports. The population is caught like deer in the headlights with gas prices so high less than one in ten can afford. Way over 50% have lost their jobs already. Starving people on the streets. Law and order broken down. This is happening worldwide.
The government decides to go take somebody else's oil.
Those with nukes don't like it and the bombs start dropping.
I get about a minute to rush upstairs and hug my wife and kids before I vaporize.
(Unless I am stuck in traffic or in the office if I am fortunate to still have a job)
Slow doom version1:
(up to "this is happening worldwide")
As law and order progressively decline some opportunists conclude that they have nothing to lose but by going door to door and taking whatever shit they can from people. The smartest of these opportunistic groups conclude that some people have seen this coming (maybe one in a hundred because they have already ran across some households with stores of canned goods etc and have noticed a pattern).
They start to target those who have obvious signs of preparation like fruit trees and vegetables etc.
Slow doom version2:
(up to "this is happening worldwide").
The government starts to collapse because they have no tax revenue. They decide to gather taxes by whatever means they can and by means of advanced data mining techniques can filter the taxpayer database down to groups of "most likely to have supplies".
The government goes directly to the door of these people and takes their stuff at gunpoint.
I join the ranks of the starving and starve like the rest of the unprepared.
Fast doom:
The economy tanks, exporters shut off exports. The population is caught like deer in the headlights with gas prices so high less than one in ten can afford. Way over 50% have lost their jobs already. Starving people on the streets. Law and order broken down. This is happening worldwide.
The government decides to go take somebody else's oil.
Those with nukes don't like it and the bombs start dropping.
I get about a minute to rush upstairs and hug my wife and kids before I vaporize.
(Unless I am stuck in traffic or in the office if I am fortunate to still have a job)
Slow doom version1:
(up to "this is happening worldwide")
As law and order progressively decline some opportunists conclude that they have nothing to lose but by going door to door and taking whatever shit they can from people. The smartest of these opportunistic groups conclude that some people have seen this coming (maybe one in a hundred because they have already ran across some households with stores of canned goods etc and have noticed a pattern).
They start to target those who have obvious signs of preparation like fruit trees and vegetables etc.
Slow doom version2:
(up to "this is happening worldwide").
The government starts to collapse because they have no tax revenue. They decide to gather taxes by whatever means they can and by means of advanced data mining techniques can filter the taxpayer database down to groups of "most likely to have supplies".
The government goes directly to the door of these people and takes their stuff at gunpoint.
I join the ranks of the starving and starve like the rest of the unprepared.
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Re: What does doom mean to you?
by FourOfSwords » Sat 09 Feb 2008, 10:47:53
Doom with capital 'D' means not having any toilet paper to wipe my arse, and smelling like a polecat! On a more serious level not being able to find/afford my Meds to keep me alive long enough to finish teaching my daughter how to survive and then thrive when I'm gone...tough luck to me. Take the bad with the good and keep on slogging!
Alex
Alex
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Re: What does doom mean to you?
by dinopello » Tue 27 May 2008, 09:05:39
Just thought I'd bump this. For people new to the site, there are a lot of topics like this where members explored what they mean by various terms - like doom, survivalist, collapse etc. It helps the conversation to have an understanding of where people are coming from and what they mean by these terms. It is pretty clear that the definitions vary quite a bit from person to person. Let us know what they mean to you.
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Re: What does doom mean to you?
by Daniel_Plainview » Tue 27 May 2008, 09:44:14
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('dinopello', 'J')ust thought I'd bump this. .
How did I miss this thread!
1. DOOM MEANS the substantial collapse of several of the essential foundations of society (economic / health / safety / food / water / fuel / ecosystem) that will lead to significant die-off, resource wars, hardship, and ruin.
2. I am a DOOMER.
3. I am a DOOMER in that I have no doubt that, no matter what we do at this very late stage (the "11th hour"), we are headed for catastrophic doom within decades. Based on PO alone, we are facing certain devastation of our economic, food, and fuel foundations. Add to that any other cataclysm (like global warming), and doom is imminent. Given human nature, and the destructive trajectory that we've hurled ourselves into, it is now too late for us to reverse the inevitable. We had our chances in the 1970's, and then again in the 1980's, and then again in the 1990's to prevent the cumulative effect of these cataclysmic trajectories, but we failed. We have sealed our own destiny, and we are doomed.
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Re: What does doom mean to you?
by allenwrench » Fri 30 May 2008, 20:37:35
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'I') think there's been some confusion about the word 'doomer,' especially lately. I know there has been for me. There are posters here whom I believed to be doomers, because of their beliefs, only to find out that they do not consider themselves doomers at all. Likewise, some who seemed to be poking fun at doomers eventually turned out to be doomers themselves -- or to be using a wildly different definition from what I would use. There's been some talk about doomers believing collapse will occur directly after peak oil -- mostly from their detractors. But immediate global collapse wouldn't occur to me as being a likely event.
I think it's time to lay our cards on the table and declare ourselves. Clear up the confusion.
Three questions to be answered in this thread. First: what is your definition of 'doom,' as used in the word 'doomer'? Is it human extinction, or only a grand depression? Severe and immediate dieoff, or just a few strategic resource wars? Second: by your own definition, are you a 'doomer'? Do you believe the doom you've described above will actually occur? Third: why are you a doomer, or why aren't you a doomer? What specific aspects of our situation make you think we'll be sucked into the abyss -- or that we'll skirt it neatly, or avoid it altogether?
Perhaps if this thread is successful, and enough people express their views, then at the end we'll be able to come to some kind of consensus about what these words actually mean. So: relevant discussion of other posters' definitions and declarations is also welcome. But please, keep flaming to a minimum. I know it's all too easy to make fun of those who don't share your viewpoint; but the purpose of this thread is to clarify our definitions.
Once again, the three questions:
1. What is 'doom'?
2. According to your own definition, are you a 'doomer'?
3. Why or why not?
I think it's time to lay our cards on the table and declare ourselves. Clear up the confusion.
Three questions to be answered in this thread. First: what is your definition of 'doom,' as used in the word 'doomer'? Is it human extinction, or only a grand depression? Severe and immediate dieoff, or just a few strategic resource wars? Second: by your own definition, are you a 'doomer'? Do you believe the doom you've described above will actually occur? Third: why are you a doomer, or why aren't you a doomer? What specific aspects of our situation make you think we'll be sucked into the abyss -- or that we'll skirt it neatly, or avoid it altogether?
Perhaps if this thread is successful, and enough people express their views, then at the end we'll be able to come to some kind of consensus about what these words actually mean. So: relevant discussion of other posters' definitions and declarations is also welcome. But please, keep flaming to a minimum. I know it's all too easy to make fun of those who don't share your viewpoint; but the purpose of this thread is to clarify our definitions.
Once again, the three questions:
1. What is 'doom'?
2. According to your own definition, are you a 'doomer'?
3. Why or why not?
Very easy to be depressed when your life is engrossed with such emergency preparations.
When I first realized how PO would change the world I was depressed as hell. Then I adapted to it within a week or so and began work to change the aspects of my life that could be changed.
Have come to accept PO and live my life pretty much as normal - but still work on preparedness almost every day in some fashion.
Sometimes we jump the gun with survival mania and do it in an unbalanced way.
The way I work my survival preparedness is to do the footwork, prepare, educate and hold it on the back burner unless needed. Until that need, I just live life the best I can.
Without that mindset one cannot be at peace with life, as we are always looking for the end of the world every day...every hour...every minute. And some survivalists seem to be disappointed if the don't get disaster!
I generally do not use the word doom. Maybe if I knew for sure that all of humanity was 'doomed' to die, then I would use it as such. I don't label myself a doomer. Others may label me as they wish.
Those that never see a cloud in the sky (perpetual optimists) come under the title of my own pet name for them as 'blissninnys'. such blissninnys use 'wishful thinking' to deal with emergency, life and death situations instead of seeing a future danger to prepare for.
My survival mentor says to prepare for the unthinkable one must first think the unthinkable. Blissninnys lack the tool of forethought due to mind blindness.
A few years ago I read an article in the Wall Street Journal about a con man named Charles Ponzi. He was credited with inventing the first pyramid scheme.
The article stated when Ponzi was interviewed he was asked how he was able to swindle so many people so easily, his responded, "When a man's mind is concentrated he is blind." So we must watch out for blindness whether it be a perpetual optimists or perpetual survivalist.
Sometimes we jump the gun with survival mania and do it in an unbalanced way.
The way I work my survival preparedness is to do the footwork, prepare, educate and hold it on the back burner unless needed. Until that need, I just live life the best I can.
Without that mindset one cannot be at peace with life, as we are always looking for doom and gloom every day...every hour...every minute. And some survivalists seem to be disappointed if the don't get disaster!
This gives you your base. If things seem to be heading to code orange, step it up a notch. If code red is about to hit, I'm sure you will know it and it is time to implement your plan to the fullest.
So you switch gears from being a short term survivalist to a longer term one.
As an offshoot to my simple living work, I now use the practice of "voluntary solitude" to give me a more peaceful life. The same way I pick and choose which complexities of living I allow in my life,
I now do the same with noise and commotion. I first learned of this concept when reading a book by the granddaddy of backpacking Colin Fletcher. He described the benefits of pure solitude by walking alone. It occurred to me I was addicted to noise and commotion.
I felt like my mind was going to explode some days. Music and noise kept repeating in my brain all night and my sleep was fitful. I had the TV blasting all day with the stock channel or the news or whatever. It didn't matter if I watched it or not, I just liked the noise.
I had the radio or CD going whenever I was driving. Even on the trail when hiking or biking, I had on earphones and at the pool a radio blaring. My mind was full of noise and I could never seem to get any escape with noise even in my sleep.
Once I started with voluntary solitude and shut off the noise, I went though a period of noise withdrawal for a few days, but gradually could see things were getting better. Sometimes our peace is disturbed by other means than noise. I've seen persons going out to be alone in nature and they bring their computer or paperwork with them.
Maybe they have removed some of the fuel for their stressed life but cannot let go of it all and must still feed their addiction even while in nature. Be aware of peace disrupters in your life, irrespective of whether they make sounds or not.
I now am very choosy when it comes to noise pollution and other disruptions entering me that can be cured by using solitude, deep quiet and renunciation. When we are quiet within we are in an easier position to find peace. I've known some people that have a completely quiet day once per week seeking quiet for their mouth and speak to no one in addition to seeking quiet for their ears.
Other persons I have talked with just make an effort to lower the volume of the noise they intake as well as lowering the volume of the noise they output...lowering their voice. No matter which road you choose, now is a wonderful time to seek the solitude of nature and practice voluntary solitude in whatever degree you choose.
Whatever the area of mind abuse - a sick mind that is constantly busy cannot heal itself without rest. Nor can that mind think rationally when it is sick. Meditation on nothingness (zazen) helps quiet a "sticky brain" that seems to hold onto everything. I can get positive results with just 15 to 20 minutes a day sitting meditation time. It helps if I sit at regular time. I meditate on nothingness, although some meditate on an object
If you can get to a half hour meditation time, that is great. Do not confuse zazen with sleep. Having a brain awake and empty if far different from a brain asleep and still producing thoughts and dreams. It just takes time and practice. Morning works better for me than mid day...there are less things distracting me earlier in the day usually.
The important point is to just do it and do it regularly and do not make demands on your meditation practice or have expectations. Balance is very important in life. We need some spiritual practice and some physical as well. We sometimes forget we are spiritual beings residing in physical bodies living in physical world and need effort in both areas.
There are many other ways to use meditation besides traditional sitting meditation. There is also working mediation and walking mediation practices. If you do yoga, you can try combining meditation with your Yoga practice. Mindfulness meditation all starts with being aware of ones breath.
I also make use of meditation tools such as a meditation timer. One type is a $10 CD that sounds a gong after a preset time. The other one is an expensive $100 electric gong timer that can also be used as an alarm clock or Yoga timer.
Sometimes I might use the 15 minute preset time just to get into a state conducive to meditation and when the gong goes off keep sitting until I feel like getting up naturally. These are usually the best sessions for me, although they require a person to have some freedom of time. Seldom can I sit for longer than 30 to 35 minutes at a session due to time and my ability.
But, don't get caught up in ego and try to mediate ad infinitum thinking the longer the better. One out of balance practitioner I knew bragged how he could meditate the main away from his rotting teeth with long hours of meditation. In his case too much sitting and too little oral hygiene -- stay balanced.
Any sort of timer is fine except one that jars you out of meditation in an abusive and agitating manner. A timer frees one's mind from worrying about such things. This should also apply to our alarm clocks in the morning. I use a CD clock that plays birds singing.
Start your day off in peace. If you need further advice, there are many good books, videos or tapes on meditating from your local library that can help. Also many internet resources.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zazen
http://www.mro.org/zmm/teachings/meditation.php
Take care,
V (Male)
Agnostic Freethinker
Practical Philosopher
Futurist
Urban Homesteader
All this has to be done within reason.
But what is reasonable for one, is unreasonable for another...so we should remember we only have to please ourselves with our efforts.
Survival is about comfort...we try to be as comfortable as possible in uncomfortable circumstances. When we get too uncomfortable we can die. It is that simple.
I think people come to this topic for different reasons.
But we all have the same basic survival instinct in common with one another.
Some of us do a great job surviving catastrophes and some of us cannot even survive a stretch of hot weather and die.
Mental preparedness and physical fitness are the foundations of all our survival quests. For the mind guides the body, but an unfit body is not able to respond to the minds guidance.
In essence, we develop self confidence by mastering the skills needed to overcome any situation that arises to threaten our life.
So it takes knowledge, dedication and action to be successful at it.
Remember, knowledge without application is useless.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivalism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-sufficiency
One other point; none of us will be ultimate survivors, we all have to die one day. But the successful survivor extends his or her life beyond an earlier death...a death that was caused by ignorance of how to make that life last longer.
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Re: What does doom mean to you?
by Quinny » Thu 10 Jul 2008, 01:55:58
Pretty much agree with the following, but ....
Hope that maybe rural communities will pull together to avoid total social collapse.
Hope that reduced population will mean resources are eked out to provide some kind of transfer to sustainable living.
Hope that skills and preparedness are valued.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'I')'ll get the ball rolling:
1. For me, doom means the collapse of global industrial civilization, followed by something like the dark ages and a significant dieoff event. There's no particular timetable; it could unfold over a few decades, or even a couple of centuries. My personal belief is that a global collapse would likely follow the pattern of a slow decline over some few decades, followed by a hard fast crash after too many societal supports have been taken away one after another. This is the pattern followed by many collapsing societies described in Jared Diamond's book Collapse.
2. I am a doomer.
3. Peak oil, by itself, does not cause my doomerhood (doomerosity?). I believe peak oil by itself would be a 'long emergency,' as described by Kunstler, leading to a slow, extended dieback as less and less food, medicine, etc. are produced and distributed. What makes me a doomer is peak oil compounded by the other natural resource and myriad ecological crises coming down the pike, as described in my 'Converging Catastrophes' thread. Peak oil might be navigable on its own; but not in conjunction with global heating, aquifer loss, topsoil loss, fishery depletion, mass extinctions, etc. These are the societal supports mentioned in my definition, which will be taken away one by one until continuance of industrial society becomes untenable. I don't know how long this will take; but I don't see much concerted movement in a different direction. I believe that eventually this will happen.
Hope that maybe rural communities will pull together to avoid total social collapse.
Hope that reduced population will mean resources are eked out to provide some kind of transfer to sustainable living.
Hope that skills and preparedness are valued.
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('coyote', 'I')'ll get the ball rolling:
1. For me, doom means the collapse of global industrial civilization, followed by something like the dark ages and a significant dieoff event. There's no particular timetable; it could unfold over a few decades, or even a couple of centuries. My personal belief is that a global collapse would likely follow the pattern of a slow decline over some few decades, followed by a hard fast crash after too many societal supports have been taken away one after another. This is the pattern followed by many collapsing societies described in Jared Diamond's book Collapse.
2. I am a doomer.
3. Peak oil, by itself, does not cause my doomerhood (doomerosity?). I believe peak oil by itself would be a 'long emergency,' as described by Kunstler, leading to a slow, extended dieback as less and less food, medicine, etc. are produced and distributed. What makes me a doomer is peak oil compounded by the other natural resource and myriad ecological crises coming down the pike, as described in my 'Converging Catastrophes' thread. Peak oil might be navigable on its own; but not in conjunction with global heating, aquifer loss, topsoil loss, fishery depletion, mass extinctions, etc. These are the societal supports mentioned in my definition, which will be taken away one by one until continuance of industrial society becomes untenable. I don't know how long this will take; but I don't see much concerted movement in a different direction. I believe that eventually this will happen.
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![[smilie=eusa_shifty.gif]](https://udev.peakoil.com/forums/images/smilies/eusa_shifty.gif "eusa_shifty")
(don't get me wrong, I also have a reasonable ammt of fear and nervousness.) Overall I welcome TEOLAWKI. LAWKI is unsustainable and hoping for it to continue is just foolhardy.
