[Yamaha_R6]

Why, because I cannot take the stupidity any longer. Everyone wants to argue these theorys that do not make any sense.

My FAVORITE ONE is:

We will starve because we wont have pesticides and fertilizers or oil to transport and grow food.

This is funny because if we are not using oil FOR THAT, the most important thing imaginable, then we sure are not using it for anything else. And if we are using no oil then we should have a lot of it very quickly! If we are not using it for farming, then where the heck is it going? IT MAKES NO SENSE but everyone here WANTS TO ARGUE this.

Then we have the whackos who think nuclear war is going to kill us all.

Then we have the other people who like to ignore that cars can be made to run on electricity with ranges as long as 140 miles for as little as 25,000$. And the fact that most electricity does not come from oil, and with breeders you can have as much nuclear as you want giving us the ability to reliably increase the power in the grid to support cars.

BUT OH NO. They always have complications..... excuses excuses excuses.... we cant do that.... it takes OIL to make nuclear reactors... it takes OIL to make cars. BIG FREAKIN DEAL! OIL ISN'T RUNNING OUT! Its just going to be more scarce. These people act like we will have no oil for anything (WHICH DOESN'T MAKE SENSE). It takes more money then we have! I guess we will just die then. Since when did money ever stop us in a war/crisis situation. Think of England or germany in WW2. MONEY MEANT NOTHING, if they needed to build this and this to maintain life, then they did it regardless of "costs". People will do whats has to be done, if that means building power plants then big whoop-di-do. We have gone through A LOT WORST!

Everyone has excuses for everything. I just cant take it anymore. If you all want to be stupid and believe that peak oil is going to be the problem of the century and that we could all die, GO AHEAD. I have tried to use reason. It's failed. I think a lot of you want this to happen in some sort of sick way and you are all trying to find reasons for it to happen.

I will continue to post in this thread... after that I am taking a break for a while.

[jato]

I think you should stick around and learn a thing or two. I know I am gaining valuable knowledge from reading on this board.

[NevadaGhosts]

Oil won't run out all at once. But there is no debate that it will get scarcer and scarcer in the future. That is the problem. A big problem. No one here is debating peak oil really. The big debate is not if, but when. No one really knows when. We all have our opinions. All of this arguing is really pointless and counter-productive.

If you insist on leaving, well... bye.

[OilsNotWell]

Yamaha, I appreciate your reasoned insight, I really do. I suspect others do as well.

I, for one, couldn't sleep for days in the beginning thinking about all this. Some others are going through the process. It's easy enough to do. Let's all remember to breathe!

One of my favorite authors is Douglas Adams, of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy (well, actually, there was four..he, he). Arthur Dent narrowly ecaped destruction as Earth (described in the guide as "mostly harmless") was destroyed to make way for a alien hypersonic bypass...

Remember the words on the guide?

DON'T PANIC.

[nero]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'R')emember the words on the guide?

DON'T PANIC.

[nigel]

Yamaha6 - Wrong reason for your in/decision. By arguing against the 'add water and stir' die-offs' you do everyone a service. Matt Savinaar, in my opinion, lacked balance, erudition and honesty in his snake-oil salesman's approach to flogging his regurgitations.

One's initial reaction to 'peak oil' is PANIC but this subsides as soon as one gets to grips with what we know. Which is not a lot. Unless there is balance and reason this site will belong to the Savinaars. In fact I think he was driven away, not so much by the childish rows as by the fact that when his position was nailed he had no response beyond abuse, confounding arguments and googlectualisms.

Should we all initiate our own EGO threads in response to Savinaar's rout or would it not be better if this was part of his?

[Madpaddy]

As "The Guide said" Don't forget your towel !!!

Oh God I loved that book too. Douglas Adams died a few years ago didn't he. There were five books in the trilogy in the end. The last book was "Mostly Harmless". hE WAS WRITING A SIXTH WHEN HE DIED. i THINK THE BITS HE HAS WRITTEN ARE IN A BOOK CALLED THE sALMON OF KNOWLEDGE.

Sorry for the caps. Too lazy to go back and correct.

[Agren]

Off topic...

The book you are refereing to is called "The Salmon of doubt". If you're a DA fan and haven't read it you really need to pick it up, it's a fin book. He was writing on a book when he died, but it was Dirk Gently book, it might have been a Hitchhiker book in the end though, wasn't really a Gently-type book

Also read "Last chance to see". The best traveljournal I've ever read

[PhilBiker]

Well then just fucking leave, both you with Matt, and both of you quit the 5th grade schoolyard drama crap about why you´re taking your damn ball and going home. I'm sick of it, and I´ll bet most of the other people reading this stie are also.

Don´t let the door hit you on the way out.

[trespam]

As the Buddha said: search for the middle path. Perhaps most of us won't die, perhaps civilization won't collapse. Then again, your arguments that we'll muddle through is not informed by anything more than anecdotal evidence. Perhaps Buddha was an economist. Always saying "on the one hand this," "on the other hand that." The truth is probably somewhere in the middle: but not always.

To every historical argument, there is a counterargument. Many though oil would run out early in the twentieth century: it didn't. Many Jews in WWII Germany thought they would be able to ride out the anti-semitic storm: they didn't.

I say do your homework and bring ideas and quantitative data to this board. Your proposals are fine, but also anecdotal. I for one have no idea how things will play out. Anyone who thinks they do is dishonest.

The world probably has the capacity to sustain 6-odd billion people through depletion if we were to put in place the appropriate population control and food control policies. But I'm not counting on it. I think greed and self-interest will make a compassionate, fair response to peak oil difficult or impossible to implement. So it will be messy at times.

[MarkL]

Yes, when oil becomes scarce, it will be force-routed to agriculture and food distribution(and of course defense). What’s that do for the people that can no longer drive to work? We will have no work, no pay, no consumption and no taxes. Even if you did have money, without production and distribution there wouldn’t be anything to buy. The government will print more money to pay off those that are trying to quell the disillusioned masses(as well as make debt payments). Won’t all of this lead to depression AND inflation? (ok, so I’m not an economist)

So when will oil become scarce? That is the question isn’t it? How long do you think it would take for it to become scarce if fundamentalists took over SA tomorrow? So maybe it won’t be till next year or five years from now. Aren’t you concerned for what will happen to your children? Don’t you think having a plan, being prepared and developing pre-oil skills would be useful?

Oil supplies may stabilize after the peak as things slow down but there will always be less and less of it available. By then, we will be in a police state and the government will control the flow of oil. Don’t you think you’d want to have a plan for when this occurs?

Note that the ‘you’ in the preceding paragraphs is not meant for anyone in particular. I haven’t been on this board long enough to really get to know anyone. I guess it’s directed at YOU, the reader - the one without a plan.

[RIPSmithianEconomics]

I've always suspected that Yamaha wasn't a generalist. He doesn't seem to be capable of sitting back and watching- he even seems to care what a couple of isolated people across the world think. Perhaps he feels that if they don't believe it can happen, it never can? It is better to extract an ounce of gold from a pound of earth than to find no gold at all.

[big_rc]

What in the hell is the matter with you people? We are on the verge of some monumental changes in the way we live and the main threads are people whining because their feelings are hurt or somebody called them bad names or people disagree with them about how quickly the world will crash when Peak Oil hits. So now Matt and Yamaha need a siesta to massage some bruised egos. I think it's time to get a grip and just a little perspective. Also let me tell you a little secret. The world doesn't revolve around you all of the time.

OK, I suggest that anyone else who is nursing some tender feelings to go ahead and post them on this thread because I for one have had enough "I'm going to quit because nobody loves me but my mama" threads for the time being. Feel free and let the inner drama queen flow out and express those hurt and damaged feelings so that we can all (in the words of Bill "The Thrill" Clinton) feel your pain.

[lotrfan55345]

We wont miss you post-peak!

:D

[twxabfn]

MarkL, your post is fantastic, and I think finally addresses what Yamaha has been complaining about. With apologies, I'm going to take the main thrust of your post and supplement it with my own knowledge I've gained from the last couple months of nonstop reading on this subject.


$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Yamaha_R6', 'M')y FAVORITE ONE is:

We will starve because we wont have pesticides and fertilizers or oil to transport and grow food.

This is funny because if we are not using oil FOR THAT, the most important thing imaginable, then we sure are not using it for anything else.

[JayHMorrison]

.... hang out and stay a while. I like it here.

It reminds me of my college days.

[Guest]

Classic...vanity post...funny, too.

It's not college, it's grade-school playground.

Matt wants us to come over to his house and ask him for the ball back. But he'll say only if he can play, too.



How you and Matt never got along is beyond me, since you both believed oil depletion is a serious issue.

I liked reading both of your comments.

Now back to work discussing peak oil!

[Cool Hand Linc]

When the statement is made about food being most important. You must remember that it is not just growing food but the infrastucture involved in growing and delivering the food to people.

To keep growing hugh amounts of food. You must have the tractors and other machinery needed to grow and harvest. Then the food must be trucked to the people. Most foods must be handled in some special way to keep it from going bad or being eaten by pests.

Big trucks and tractors need tires and the industry that makes tires is required for this.

This is just a start. It's not just one aspect that you must see but the big picture. Any link in the chain becomes weak and it will snap.

I actually think the chain will just keep getting weaker until a failure occurs.

[jato]

Re Nuclear war:
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'I')n fact, considering how significant a contributor the US is to the world's food supply, attacking us would be incredibly foolhardy.

[Guest]

^^^^ it's posts like that one that made me make the decision to only post in this thread and then take a break for a while. Read it...., its SOOOO stupid. I don't want to waste my time arguing about something as stupid as that.

Really I am taking a break because 1. This is pointless. 2. I have other things i need to do for the next few months.

At first I was planning to just post less and less and then just stop for a while, but then when I saw Matt's big, GOODBYE BID ME FAREWELL, i thought, That looks like fun I think i'll do that too!

I know that peak oil isn't going to really hurt me in any way, it may effect me, but i don't believe it will be negative. I have no reason, (other then my own amusement), to convince you all of this. I have tried and tried but many of you wont listen. Its the excuses that bother me, you can make excuses for why anything cant or wont work. If everyone doubted themselves the way you all do nothing ever would have gotten done. You seem to be bent over die-offs, if not from peak oil then from something else like not enough water or nuclear war.

This is a very entertaining subject, but thats all it is, entertainment. Nothing bu a bunch of what if scenarios. You'll all see, time will prove me right. Things are all going to switch over to electricity, it's already begun. Electricity will be generated from a few hundred more nuclear reactors, a lot more coal plants (with filters to remove pollution), more geothermal, and a lot more solar and wind. We will use tar sands and remaining oil to make plastics and run factories to build cars ect.

If you want to make excuses as to why this wont work go ahead..... But i am sure they will be stupid...

Like the, we cant make electric industry and produce electric cars without the oil that we wont have post peak, this goes along with the "we are not using any but still don't have any oil" theory that makes no sense...

Then we have economic collapse = starvation... Somehow food stamps don't exist in the future... even though we will still have food, because we still have oil, (just not enough to power 300million cars), this is where the plug in hybrid comes in along with rationing of oil and energy.


We could keep going like this... but once again there is no point.