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No bread on the shelves

General discussions of the systemic, societal and civilisational effects of depletion.

No bread on the shelves

Unread postby heroineworshipper » Wed 26 Dec 2007, 16:39:35

Noticed a lot less bread on the shelves lately. They only make enough Dutch crust for a fraction of the shoppers. Sourdough was completely sold out on XMas eve. Never saw that before. At least sausages were only 25% more expensive instead of out of stock.

One problem is massive housing and no stores being built, to take advantage of mortgage bailouts. The other problem is no wheat, to take advantage of the oil shortage. What we need is a subprime wheat bailout.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby steam_cannon » Wed 26 Dec 2007, 17:58:08

Yeah, could be... Due to increasing grain prices store managers may be stocking bread "Just In Time" to minimize losses. This isn't too unusual during holidays so food doesn't go bad while the store is closed. But, since grain prices keep going up, this may also be a new store policy you are seeing.

Sorry this is such a long post, but here are a few clips from articles relevant to this very important trend.

------------------------------------------------------------

Ratchet up your doomer index?
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('sun-sentinel - December 18, 2007', 'N')EW YORK - Wheat prices surged above $10 a bushel for the first time ever Monday amid concerns that strong demand globally could result in a grain shortage in the United States next year — worsening food price inflation.

Other commodities markets mostly declined, with energy, other agricultural futures and metals moving lower.

U.S. wheat supplies have dwindled this year as one wheat crop after another worldwide has been damaged by poor weather, most recently in Australia and Argentina. That's sent buyers scrambling for stockpiles at any cost. U.S. wheat exporters already have sold more than 90 percent of the 1.175 billion bushels the U.S. Department of Agriculture expects will be exported during the whole marketing year, which ends in June 2008.

Wheat prices crossing $10 a bushel won't immediately translate into a spike in retail prices for bread, cereal, cookies and other products, experts say. That's partly because companies like Kellogg Co., General Mills Inc., ConAgra Foods Inc. and Kraft Foods Inc. typically protect themselves from price volatility with long-term supply contracts. But analysts say consumers should expect higher prices in the grocery aisle.

...Wheat prices have hit a record high each of the past three trading sessions and have doubled since the start of the year, when wheat traded for about $5 a bushel...

...In the market panics of previous years, prices would rise to a level that developing countries couldn't afford. But it's not clear where that peak is now, said Mark Schultz, analyst with Northstar Commodity...

Link
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/sf ... 2767.story

More links
http://www.foxbusiness.com/article/whea ... 71_44.html
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home
http://www.economist.com/displaystory.c ... d=10250420


An ugly trend...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Why Are Food Prices Spiking? (Charts)

Image

Total US wheat production has dropped from 58.74 million metric tons in 2004 to a projected 49.32 in March of 2007. That's a drop of 16%. Over the same period (2004 to Match 2007's yearly projection) all European countries have decreased wheat production as well. Australia -- which has been hit by a drought -- has seen production drop from 22.60 to 10.5 million metric tons. Overall world production has dropped from 628.59 million metric tons in 2004 to 593.11 million metric tons -- a decrease of 5.62%.

US and world production of course grains is also down. US production has dropped from 319 million metric tons in 2004 to a projected 280 million metric tons in 2007. That's a decrease of 12.2%. Overall world production has dropped from 1,014 million metric tons in 2004 to a projected 966 million metric tons in March 2007. That's a decrease of 4.73%.

http://mparent7777.blogspot.com/2007/03 ... iking.html


Grain supplies continue to get tighter...
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', 'T')hese are certainly trends to keep an eye on. It's getting interesting out there.

Trend I've been watching
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]Grain Harvest Sets Record, But Supplies Still Tight
http://www.worldwatch.org/node/5539
http://www.peakoil.com/post558005.html

"Near-perfect weather in major growing areas as well as an estimated 5 percent jump in world fertilizer use helped farmers increase yields."

"...voracious global demand will consume all of this increase and prevent governments from replenishing cereal stocks that are at their lowest level in 30 years."

Global cereal stocks were expected to stand at 318 million tons by the close of the 2007 season, equivalent to about 14 percent of annual consumption.
That's about a 50 day supply, which suggests supplies of stored grain are still falling.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('energybulletin', '
')World Grain Stocks Fall to 57 Days of Consumption: Grain Prices Starting to Rise (2006)

ImageImage

This year’s world grain harvest is projected to fall short of consumption by 61 million tons, marking the sixth time in the last seven years that production has failed to satisfy demand. As a result of these shortfalls, world carryover stocks at the end of this crop year are projected to drop to 57 days of consumption, the shortest buffer since the 56-day-low in 1972 that triggered a doubling of grain prices.

http://www.energybulletin.net/17261.html
So even with massive increases in fertilizer use, excellent weather and a massive push to increase grain production, it looks like we are still falling further behind.

Good news? I guess the good news is we aren't seeing famines yet and world grain prices haven't shot up too sharply, yet... But the trend is continuing.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Related...

* Fertilizer supply problems (supply problem with fertilizers in spring 2008)
$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'W')orld demand is outstripping supply and farmers are being advised not only to make sure they have ordered what they need, but to take delivery and make sure they have it.

"This coming season, the most likely situation is a shortage,” said Yara’s England and Wales business manager Steven Chisholm.

World demand for grain production for both feed and biofuel was currently outstripping supply and that was driving the demand for fertilizers.

"All I would say is order it and get it delivered – ownership will be nine tenths of the law this spring.

* Mexico's tortilla riots
"75,000 people protesting the rising price of tortillas."
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=fo ... gle+Search
Last edited by steam_cannon on Thu 01 May 2008, 22:42:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby frankthetank » Wed 26 Dec 2007, 18:26:36

I was out grocery shopping today and i noticed a jump in the price of about everything i buy, everything! I didn't notice a loss in breads in the aisle, but i did notice the prices are up. The price of flour has really skyrocketed too.

I doubt once you see them go up, you'll ever see them drop.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby Narz » Wed 26 Dec 2007, 21:41:18

Good thing I'm gluten intolerant then, eh?

Yes yes, I know bigger picture. ;)
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby kpeavey » Wed 26 Dec 2007, 21:56:03

just got back from Wal-Mart.
No goddam evaporated milk for my coffee, any brand. Down here they like pumpkin pie and sweet potatoes, so that must be the explanation. Can't possibly be the result of a global problem.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby catbox » Wed 26 Dec 2007, 22:36:13

Everything IS more expensive! My wife and I just talked about this.
There is only 3 of us in our family and we are spending 50% more than we did this time last year...???...How do those people with the 5 kids do it?

We had one of the Ray's grocery stores open out in a "burb" of Eugene....open for under a year...closed now. A brand new HUGE building built for this Ray's to lease...and it's gone! Just a big...brand new empty building sitting there. They did have their reasons...but I can't seem to think it's going to be a common sight.
Also, a Safeway bit it around the same time.... 2 miles down the road...it had been there for years.
We didn't really shop at these stores....opting for smaller locally owned stores.

http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/si ... id=1&fid=1

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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby katnipkid » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 00:21:16

I worked in grocery stores for many years. It is common for them to run out of even staples during the holi-daze. Anything brought in by a vendor would be no exception. Vendors lease the shelf space and bring in the breads. They are probably bringing in less bread.

I have noticed everything is more expensive, but that usually happens this time of year, too. This time I think it is due to gas prices and the wheat shortage, though.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby Revi » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 00:58:14

Time to learn how to bake your own bread! Here's a conference we started last year that was really a great way to learn about growning, milling and baking. It had a bunch of really great speakers like Mark Fulford who knows everything about soil, Albie Barden who makes wood fired ovens and Kiko Denzer who built an oven which bakes bread out of the local clay. We mixed the mud with our feet, and dove into the Kennebec River whenever we got too hot. Check out the slide show! Others taught us about einkorn and spelt. I had to test a lot of the bread. The food was awesome!

http://www.heartofmaine.org/kneading/

I realized how great clay oven building is. Society is all about giving you bread if you are doing what they want. Well, you can build an oven with the local clay and bake your own bread. How cool is that? We are all going to have to do this soon enough.

A lot of the people there were aware of Peak Oil and felt that this is one of the solutions to the problem. It seems like we are hitting peak wheat as well. Peak oil is a problem, but peak wheat is a disaster!
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 01:00:30

Prices for key foods are rising sharply (2007)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18902.html
Image
"numbers reveals that the price of milk, eggs and other essentials in the American diet are actually rising by double digits."

Rising food prices take a bigger paycheck bite (2007)
"The Bureau of Labor Statistics calculates that food inflation is running at a 6.7% seasonally adjusted annual rate through the first four months of 2007 -- three times the core rate and more than three times last year's 2.1% increase."
http://tinyurl.com/224dch

Corn to Blame for Rising Food Prices (2007)
Grocery store prices are rising, and economists say they don't expect them to fall any time soon.
May 17, 2007
http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Business/story?id=3183753

An expensive dinner (2007)
THE world’s most vulnerable who spend 60% of their income on food have been priced out of the food market,” is the alarming warning from Josette Sheeran, head of the United Nations’ World Food Programme (WFP). As the price of wheat, maize, corn and other commodities that make up the world’s basic foodstuffs is soaring the poorest people in the poorest countries are the hardest hit.
http://www.economist.com/daily/news/dis ... op_story=1

Low grain harvest, rising food prices and China's ethanol plan (2007)
http://www.energybulletin.net/34519.html
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby Bas » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 01:24:49

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '"')numbers reveals that the price of milk, eggs and other essentials in the American diet are actually rising by double digits."


What about Hamburgers? :)



Prices here are very stable, and might even have come down a bit over the last couple of years, which might be due to both a strong Euro and effects of the more efficient Euro-zone market. Probably won't last much longer though; what goes around comes around, so I expect that we'll see noticable inflation here too in 2008.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby cube » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 01:41:13

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('steam_cannon', '[')b]Prices for key foods are rising sharply (2007)
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/18902.html
Image
Food is not counted in the "core inflation" rate so we have nothing to worry about!

The biggest difference I've noticed IRL is people complaining about food going up in price. It's starting to become the "2nd" most popular pastime. :wink:

But getting serious now bull markets in commodities tend to last much longer then stock or real estate bull markets. So this is just the beginning. IMHO
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 02:04:07

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('cube', 'B')ut getting serious now bull markets in commodities tend to last much longer then stock or real estate bull markets. So this is just the beginning. IMHO
Yeah just looking at these charts and looking over a few of the implications of climate change, this is only the beginning.

By 2050, America’s Breadbasket Moves to Canada (2006 Article)
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/1 ... to-canada/
http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic30216.html

Scientists predict Southwest mega-drought (starting now)
Image
"The consensus of the models was that climate in the southwestern United States and parts of northern Mexico began a transition to drier conditions late in the 20th century and is continuing the trend in this century"
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17967097/
http://groovygreen.com/groove/?p=1240

I could go on about the different parts of the country and around the world, but put simply farming will be and is becoming more difficult world wide. And this research gives me a bad feeling in the pit of my stomach... 8O
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby LoneSnark » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 03:47:51

I think we should all write our congressmen and beg them to stop paying farmers not to farm.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 04:44:30

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('LoneSnark', 'I') think we should all write our congressmen and beg them to stop paying farmers not to farm.
You do that LoneSnark...

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he other "subsidy" program is the famous one where farmers are paid not to plant corn. I think that they are paid something on the order of $50 an acre to take land out of production. Since they can now make more than that growing corn on those acres, that program is also not really relevant as farmers give up the subsidies and plant corn on those acres.

http://cafehayek.typepad.com/hayek/2007 ... antag.html
From what I see, a program to encourage farmers to rest fields once in a while really isn't going to change production capacity in a high priced market like this one. But it sure makes a great sensationalist post!

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', '[')b]sensationalist, ballyhoo artist
someone who uses exaggerated or lurid material in order to gain public attention
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/sensationalist
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby steam_cannon » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 05:56:34

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Revi', 'T')ime to learn how to bake your own bread! Here's a conference we started last year that was really a great way to learn about growning, milling and baking. It had a bunch of really great speakers like Mark Fulford who knows everything about soil, Albie Barden who makes wood fired ovens and Kiko Denzer who built an oven which bakes bread out of the local clay. We mixed the mud with our feet, and dove into the Kennebec River whenever we got too hot. Check out the slide show! Others taught us about einkorn and spelt. I had to test a lot of the bread. The food was awesome!

http://www.heartofmaine.org/kneading/

I realized how great clay oven building is. Society is all about giving you bread if you are doing what they want. Well, you can build an oven with the local clay and bake your own bread. How cool is that? We are all going to have to do this soon enough.

A lot of the people there were aware of Peak Oil and felt that this is one of the solutions to the problem. It seems like we are hitting peak wheat as well. Peak oil is a problem, but peak wheat is a disaster!
Yeah, it's a crazy world. Great bread link though! :-D
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby Troyboy1208 » Thu 27 Dec 2007, 14:06:22

I was just at the store yesterday and although they had alot in stock the prices were way up. A gallon of milk costs an Abe Lincoln. I agree with the above poster about how people with 5 kids survive. Its amazing to me.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby RedStateGreen » Fri 28 Dec 2007, 00:31:39

Lots of bread on the shelves but I paid $7.50 for two loaves of whole wheat. The kids like it better than what I make, but I'm still learning. For that much I can buy a few bags of flour. :roll:
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby dinopello » Fri 28 Dec 2007, 01:15:17

Baking your bread opens up a world of possibilities. I make bread with meats and cheeses (salami, provolone etc. ) in it or just veggies (carrots, zuccini etc) and its a whole meal or a good side. Tonight I made a loaf of fig and walnut and a loaf of fig and hazelnut (with some frangelica). But yea, even baking your own the prices for everything is up.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby LoneSnark » Fri 28 Dec 2007, 03:58:42

Where are you people shopping? Whole Wheat bread at Food Lion was $1.29 a loaf today. That is much higher than it was in 2001 when it sold for $0.99, but it certainly is not the $3.75 RedStateGreen is paying.
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Re: No bread on the shelves

Unread postby IslandCrow » Fri 28 Dec 2007, 04:42:29

In the community where I live (only 800 - 900 people 'year round' including all the outer islands) there is a small bakery. The price of bread has been the same for the last couple of years (€1.30). This price undercuts the store bread by about 20%.

I was just talking to the baker a couple of minutes ago and he has no plans to raise the price, as at the current price level he is already making a good profit (ie earning substantially more than I am earning).

Realising that not many people would want to work the hours the baker does, I find it interesting that a small scale business catering for the locality can profitably undercut the large firms with their long lines of delivery. This is one case where small scale localization is financially viable.

The one drawback is that the bakery closes if he wants a holiday!
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