[Ludi]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Novus', ' ')There seems to be a myopic opinion on this forum that there is only ONE way to survive PO and that is to become an independent farmer.

[Novus]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ghog', '
')
People who are preparing and planning are already being affected by PO awareness, hence the reason for their being here and planning lifestyle changes. So to say those people have not come to grips with and are not affected by PO is also incorrect.

[Ghog]

Novus, shall we try a new day?

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'D')o not assume I am not preparing as well

[spudbuddy]

"1. The majority of people are not willing or able to understand the concepts or ramifications of Peak Oil. "


I disagree entirely with this statement. This is to make the the assumption that the "dumbing down" of America has been successful.
The total percentage of Americans earning college degrees is constantly climbing.
Which means a greater percentage of the population is capable of reading at an adequate level to research this topic. Which is what many will do while they engage in discussion, before they engage in same, and certainly after.
The media would have us believe that the average IQ out there is pretty low.
By comparison, the average level of awareness of political, social and economic realities in the 21st century, compared to even pre-boomer days, is astonishing.
We are more prepared for this, as a society, than we have ever been.
If one looks at what is happening on a grassroots level (and this is where the groundwork is being laid) one can never assume that we're a nation of ostriches hiding our heads in the sand.
On the surface, everything looks pretty much the same...business as usual. Just beneath that surface is another story, entirely.

A friend of mine pointed out to me just last night...this medium is perhaps crucial to the issue, because it is the only public media not directly controlled by big business and government.
Here is where we do exercise our right to free speech, in a public manner.
It is important to understand the process:
When one sets about gathering information, and begins to see a bigger picture, they must test their understanding of what it is they think they're learning.
We do that in the real world, in real time, in the same old social ways and while conducting the same old habits we have always employed.
(around the water cooler at work, at a backyard barbeque, at the lunch counter, with coffee at the kitchen table, etc.)
But not only this...
We have this grand old tradition of putting things in print. Which is what we do here.
It is a free press, after all.
People are talking. There is an ever-growing chorus, a rising tide of thunderous sound, a huge swell of babbling yak. America talks. Not only with and among themselves, but with the rest of the world.
A wonderful thing.
And with an ear to the ground, when one discovers that the topical nature of discussion is slowly turning away from what doesn't matter (juicy gossip, reality tv, pop sensibility, the mundane, arcane, shallow, artificial and otherwise cheap and inconsequential nattering) well, here you have it.

I'm sure apocalyptic visions abound out there. They always have.
Silence is deadly. Silence gives consent.
When millions of people make up their minds they damned well do not want to give consent to the way we've been waltzing down the garden path, then things begin to change.
Things begin to change because people start to notice one another, and recognize the actualization of a public will.
The public will is the force that effects that change.
The public will is a force that is gathered, harvested, reaped, focused, channeled into the process that does the work for the good of us all.

Perhaps it starts with a question: "How many other people feel the way I do? Am I all alone here? Am I on track? Or am I way out in left field?"
Perhaps I need to test this by bouncing it off others."

I have read marvellous moments of levity in here...."when I first accepted peak oil....ha!...sounds like a born again testimony".....etc.

Social discourse is the lubricant that helps set the squeeky wheels in motion. Lord knows
, they're going to have to do a lot of turning in the next few decades. There is a lot of work to do.
We will never do that work in silence. We're not built that way.
Neither do we have to tip-toe around like scared mice, hoping that higher powers aren't going to notice, or that we don't step on toes, or upset anyone.
Of course higher powers are going to notice! (read: big busines, big government). Of course we're going to step on toes! That's part of the process of consensus. And I'm sure we'll upset a lot of people. Democratic principles call for it, demand it, even.

Myself...I don't particularly see only apocalyptic visions (as disturbing as they are) but instead, an amazing opportunity for this society, and indeed the entire planet...to make changes intrinsic to our survival.
Peak oil will force the issue, no doubt.
Change is always a constant. The world has changed considerably since the end of WW2. Change is necessary now. It's up to us to effect those changes. We are still very much in a formative stage. We need dialogue. Lots of it.
And here's where it starts. Bubbling up from the heartland, and every corner of the nation, every corner of the planet, in fact.
We are not powerless. We are not lemmings. We are not entirely free...but I suggest we are free enough to move a mountain, one pebble at a time. When enough of us pitch in, well...(hand me a shovel, someone.)

[Ghog]

Nice read. I don't agree with all of it, but it was well thought out.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')he total percentage of Americans earning college degrees is constantly climbing.

[Pops]

Spud, in your few posts that I’ve read, I think you have said more than many of us here say in hundreds - me at the top of the list. I may not always agree with what you say but hats off to the way you say it.

[Drakn]

Ghog wrote quite a bit without actually stating numerically why my proposed solution would not work.

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'T')his is the only relationship you see to oil? Do you realize how many products are dependent on it? There goes WalMart, Dell, pharmaceuticals, etc.

[Ghog]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'Y')eah, don't worry, I didn't take it personally. You are just an expected result of modern society Ghog.

If you can read english, I said

IF you can read english. [If you are new to the english language don't take offence.]

[Seeker]

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('Ludi', 'T')his particular thread is about stopping talking about the problem and actually going and living our particular vision of a solution.

[retiredguy]

To clarify the post I made a couple of days ago. The vast majority 90% of people in this country are far removed from the land. Thinking that one can convert an urban dweller who never has grown anything to a subsistence farmer over a very short period of time is asking a lot.

Farming is a skilled ocupation; it takes education, a degree of intelligence and lots of experience to become proficient.

In general, I agree with Drakn's vision of the post-peak future. A modified feudal system with localized economies, limited trade, and labor diversified over a number of trades, agriculture being one of them. Unless collapse is total, we won't go back to being hunters and gatherers.

My concern is how we transition to this new way of life. Many of today's large urban centers are situated in places where water and arable land are in short supply. When energy gets very expensive, these places won't be sustainable and won't be candidates for transition to the feudal model. Also, there are urban centers located in areas that have adequate water and a good deal of arable land, but not enough to sustain the current level of population.

To my mind the key to a succesful transition how we marshall the remaining fossil fuels to reduce the population to a sustainable level. If we wait too long, there won't be enough time and enough fossil fuels to make the transition relatively peacefully.

We have a chance if the government remains intact and starts doing the right things. Because the government held out hope and because most people believed that the government could help them is the main reason that the Depression didn't devolve into chaos.

[Drakn]

Ghog, I think there were a few things you misunderstood about my last post.

When I said

$this->bbcode_second_pass_quote('', 'N')ow, if you want my OPINION....